Edwin Posted January 15, 2014 Report Share Posted January 15, 2014 I see Dylan is way into the WWC. The best possible feud/angle in WWC history maybe the Ray Gonzalez heel turn. I'm not sure if it's entirely online, but it was great. I know the cameo where he spits in Carlos Colon's face, slaps Invader #1 and fights with Ricky Santana at his ranch is online, but the entire thing was golden. He worked his way up the ranks beating all the members of the Ejercito de la Justicia in a span of 2 months maybe leading up to the big blowoff Carlos Colon WWC Universal Title run at Aniversario where they split wins. I was live at some of those matches and the heat Ray got for the heel turn can't be justified on tape. It was just a wild atmosphere at the arenas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Boricua Posted January 15, 2014 Report Share Posted January 15, 2014 I see Dylan is way into the WWC. The best possible feud/angle in WWC history maybe the Ray Gonzalez heel turn. I'm not sure if it's entirely online, but it was great. I know the cameo where he spits in Carlos Colon's face, slaps Invader #1 and fights with Ricky Santana at his ranch is online, but the entire thing was golden. He worked his way up the ranks beating all the members of the Ejercito de la Justicia in a span of 2 months maybe leading up to the big blowoff Carlos Colon WWC Universal Title run at Aniversario where they split wins. I was live at some of those matches and the heat Ray got for the heel turn can't be justified on tape. It was just a wild atmosphere at the arenas. My favorite part comes later during that feud when Carlos is put on the shelf by Ray and Victor. After the surgery, Carlos unexpectedly goes to Atlanta to ask Abdullah (who Carlos had retired a year or so before in a retirement match) for his help. I've never been able to find video of that segment, but it's among my top favorite moments in wrestling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Boricua Posted January 15, 2014 Report Share Posted January 15, 2014 Meltzer mentioned in the daily update today that Los Matadores are in for this weekends WWC show vs Thunder and Lightning. Good to see Thunder/Lightning back but the Colons are also bringing Torito with them. I know the Colons can work some WWC shows but I didn't know Torito could come with them? When they were managed by Rosa Mendes, did she ever join them in WWC? Sorry for missing this earlier Tim. I think Rosa may have made one appearance with them. I'm reasonably sure that she appeared in promos with them hyping up one of their appearances, but can't say with 100% certainty (I'd have to check the show recaps) that she appeared with them during those shows. In any case, El Torito actually did not end up appearing with Los Matadores during these shows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwin Posted January 15, 2014 Report Share Posted January 15, 2014 I see Dylan is way into the WWC. The best possible feud/angle in WWC history maybe the Ray Gonzalez heel turn. I'm not sure if it's entirely online, but it was great. I know the cameo where he spits in Carlos Colon's face, slaps Invader #1 and fights with Ricky Santana at his ranch is online, but the entire thing was golden. He worked his way up the ranks beating all the members of the Ejercito de la Justicia in a span of 2 months maybe leading up to the big blowoff Carlos Colon WWC Universal Title run at Aniversario where they split wins. I was live at some of those matches and the heat Ray got for the heel turn can't be justified on tape. It was just a wild atmosphere at the arenas. My favorite part comes later during that feud when Carlos is put on the shelf by Ray and Victor. After the surgery, Carlos unexpectedly goes to Atlanta to ask Abdullah (who Carlos had retired a year or so before in a retirement match) for his help. I've never been able to find video of that segment, but it's among my top favorite moments in wrestling. Abby offering Carlos the fork on the table as a sign of accepting his alliance was funny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Redman Posted January 16, 2014 Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 I see Dylan is way into the WWC. The best possible feud/angle in WWC history maybe the Ray Gonzalez heel turn. I'm not sure if it's entirely online, but it was great. I know the cameo where he spits in Carlos Colon's face, slaps Invader #1 and fights with Ricky Santana at his ranch is online, but the entire thing was golden. He worked his way up the ranks beating all the members of the Ejercito de la Justicia in a span of 2 months maybe leading up to the big blowoff Carlos Colon WWC Universal Title run at Aniversario where they split wins. I was live at some of those matches and the heat Ray got for the heel turn can't be justified on tape. It was just a wild atmosphere at the arenas. My favorite part comes later during that feud when Carlos is put on the shelf by Ray and Victor. After the surgery, Carlos unexpectedly goes to Atlanta to ask Abdullah (who Carlos had retired a year or so before in a retirement match) for his help. I've never been able to find video of that segment, but it's among my top favorite moments in wrestling. Maybe they did a similar angle at a different time, but I've definitely seen when Carlos goes to Abby to recruit him to fight Hansen and Brody, leading to that tag match with the locker room brawl. It may be on Youtube. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwin Posted January 16, 2014 Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 They've run that angle a couple of times, but its always set up differently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Boricua Posted January 16, 2014 Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 Yeah, they did this angle a couple of times. The first one was in 1984 and is the one Jimmy mentioned that involved Hansen and Brody. That time Carlos went with a briefcase full of money to convince his blood rival of six years to help him. I unfortunately missed this at the time, I was too young to watch it. But I definitely remember the second time. The second time they did this, it was around 1999. By this point, Carlos and Abdullah had 20 years of history. Abdullah had been banished from Puerto Rico, losing to Carlos Colon in a loser must retire match at Aniversario 97. He had not been seen since. During the following year, Ray Gonzalez started going bad and Carlos had his hands full feuding with him. Through a series of events, Carlos was attacked and had his shoulder injured. He had surgery for the injury (with highlights shown on TV) and it looked like he was done. But Carlos decided on a drastic course of action. Without telling anyone of his plans, he took a trip to Atlanta (with a camera guy going with him), and ended up going to Abdullah's restaurant to pay an unannounced visit to his vanquished rival. And unlike the first time where Carlos used money to get Abdullah's help, this time he was going there to make an appeal for help with nothing but the hope that there may be some shred of justice and understanding from Abdullah that would get him to help. And that's keeping in mind that Carlos for all intents and purposes had taken away from Abdullah his career in wrestling, so there was no love lost there. The whole segment, from Carlos' surprise arrival to Abdullah's reaction when he saw him to the face to face plea for help Carlos does, remains one of my favorites. For the first time, I saw humanity from Abdullah the Butcher. After so many years, who knew he had it in him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwin Posted January 16, 2014 Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 Did the Savio Vega vs. Necro Butcher hardcore match from IWA "Noche de Campeones" ever make video? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goc Posted January 30, 2014 Report Share Posted January 30, 2014 Yeah, they did this angle a couple of times. The first one was in 1984 and is the one Jimmy mentioned that involved Hansen and Brody. That time Carlos went with a briefcase full of money to convince his blood rival of six years to help him. I unfortunately missed this at the time, I was too young to watch it. But I definitely remember the second time. The second time they did this, it was around 1999. By this point, Carlos and Abdullah had 20 years of history. Abdullah had been banished from Puerto Rico, losing to Carlos Colon in a loser must retire match at Aniversario 97. He had not been seen since. During the following year, Ray Gonzalez started going bad and Carlos had his hands full feuding with him. Through a series of events, Carlos was attacked and had his shoulder injured. He had surgery for the injury (with highlights shown on TV) and it looked like he was done. But Carlos decided on a drastic course of action. Without telling anyone of his plans, he took a trip to Atlanta (with a camera guy going with him), and ended up going to Abdullah's restaurant to pay an unannounced visit to his vanquished rival. And unlike the first time where Carlos used money to get Abdullah's help, this time he was going there to make an appeal for help with nothing but the hope that there may be some shred of justice and understanding from Abdullah that would get him to help. And that's keeping in mind that Carlos for all intents and purposes had taken away from Abdullah his career in wrestling, so there was no love lost there. The whole segment, from Carlos' surprise arrival to Abdullah's reaction when he saw him to the face to face plea for help Carlos does, remains one of my favorites. For the first time, I saw humanity from Abdullah the Butcher. After so many years, who knew he had it in him. I really really want to see this now even if my spanish isn't good enough to probably understand it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted February 12, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 Random question, but who were the guys considered the best promos in PR's heyday? More specifically, how was Colon regarded as a promo at the time? Building on that, was Colon thought of as a good "worker" by hardcore Puerto Rican fans during the 80's/early 90's or was he seen as a Hogan type by them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobra Commander Posted February 14, 2014 Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 it'd be interesting to see how much of someone getting over in PR (or even Mexico) involved in-ring charisma (or being real impressive in the ring too) and how much involves stuff like mic-work or out the ring activities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted February 14, 2014 Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 There's no scientific formula. Everyone gets over for different reasons, and being different is usually why people get over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Boricua Posted February 14, 2014 Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 I'm currently fighting off a cold, so I won't be able to answer Dylan's question in detail yet. If anyone else wants to jump in go right ahead. I'll start by saying that I would definitely put Chicky, Invader 1 and Hugo ahead of Carlos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrisZ Posted February 14, 2014 Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 I would say that Chicky is arguably the greatest promo guy in Puerto Rican history. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Farmer Posted February 20, 2014 Report Share Posted February 20, 2014 Yeah, they did this angle a couple of times. The first one was in 1984 and is the one Jimmy mentioned that involved Hansen and Brody. That time Carlos went with a briefcase full of money to convince his blood rival of six years to help him. I unfortunately missed this at the time, I was too young to watch it. But I definitely remember the second time. The second time they did this, it was around 1999. By this point, Carlos and Abdullah had 20 years of history. Abdullah had been banished from Puerto Rico, losing to Carlos Colon in a loser must retire match at Aniversario 97. He had not been seen since. During the following year, Ray Gonzalez started going bad and Carlos had his hands full feuding with him. Through a series of events, Carlos was attacked and had his shoulder injured. He had surgery for the injury (with highlights shown on TV) and it looked like he was done. But Carlos decided on a drastic course of action. Without telling anyone of his plans, he took a trip to Atlanta (with a camera guy going with him), and ended up going to Abdullah's restaurant to pay an unannounced visit to his vanquished rival. And unlike the first time where Carlos used money to get Abdullah's help, this time he was going there to make an appeal for help with nothing but the hope that there may be some shred of justice and understanding from Abdullah that would get him to help. And that's keeping in mind that Carlos for all intents and purposes had taken away from Abdullah his career in wrestling, so there was no love lost there. The whole segment, from Carlos' surprise arrival to Abdullah's reaction when he saw him to the face to face plea for help Carlos does, remains one of my favorites. For the first time, I saw humanity from Abdullah the Butcher. After so many years, who knew he had it in him. I really really want to see this now even if my spanish isn't good enough to probably understand it. I really enjoyed the whole Hansen & Brody vs Colon & Abby deal. One match that I've look to find more info on is prior to their big cage match they did a regular tag match. Plus Brody & Hansen worked Colon & King Tonga that could have been a great match. Just the other day I came across a Flair versus Dusty Rhodes match from Bayamon. In the comment section people were speculating when I took place. Most believed it was in 1985. But I recall a conversation with Larry Matysik I had when I was helping him with his Brody book. He mentioned that Crocktt & Dusty came to the islands to meet with Joe Frazier about working Starrcade (84). Joe was on tour refereeing some Brody vs Carlos matches. Larry said (as he was Brody's confidant and close friend) that he believes it was in the spring of 84'. Since I'm a results mark I would love to come across a good source for dates of WWC cards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Farmer Posted February 20, 2014 Report Share Posted February 20, 2014 Really enjoy your rundowns guys, excellent job! When you get a chance I hope you can go over more in detail the whole Brody & Hansen vs Colon & Abby fued. It lead to the cage match which drew the largest crowd to this day ever in Puerto Rico of nearly 30,000 people. It often is reported as the Anniversary card for that year, but as pointed out their first meeting was at the Anniversary show. All three matches drew big crowds but the cage match turned away people on the floor! The Anniversary show drew close to 30,000 people. I sore I've seen the video on this, so I looked around youtube but couldn't find it. Maybe it's in my own tape library. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Boricua Posted February 20, 2014 Report Share Posted February 20, 2014 Was the Flair vs. Dusty match the one that ends in a double DQ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Farmer Posted February 21, 2014 Report Share Posted February 21, 2014 I believe so. It's on youtube , let me see if I can find the link. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Boricua Posted February 21, 2014 Report Share Posted February 21, 2014 No need to find the link, if it's the one on youtube then we're referencing the same match. I believe that match is from the final weekend of house shows for 1985 (the big season ending card), which would mean it took place around mid-December of 1985. It's from Hiram Bithorn Stadium and, if I'm not mistaken, the card also featured the ambulance match between the Sheepherders and Carlos Colon & Invader 1, Magnum TA defending the U.S title against Tully Blanchard, and Hercules Ayala defending the NA title against Nikita Koloff. All of these matches are from the same stadium and look to be in front of the same crowd and set-up. The reasons I'm pretty sure the match is from 1985 are the following. First, the Sheepherders big run was in 1985, which was capped by the ambulance match. Also, Dusty's wearing the protective boot on his ankle during the World title match and the announcers mention that it was due to the attack they did to him (the cage attack), so it has to be after September. Magnum is the defending U.S champ, which means this has to be after Starrcade. Finally, Hercules Ayala lost the NA title on the Three King's Day card in 1986 (typically the first show to start the new year), so the card would not have taken place in 1986. For reference, there is quick way to check to see if the match is from Juan Ramon Loubriel Stadium or Hiram Bithorn Stadium. If the roof is in a straight line ------------, it's Loubriel. If the roof is in the following pattern \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/, then it's Bithorn. There are other details (such as the backstop paint scheme and the look of the grass) that can help identify the stadiums (although it's really tough to make them out when there is a large ringside crowd such as here), but the quickest and easiest is the roof pattern. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Migs Posted February 21, 2014 Report Share Posted February 21, 2014 Nevermind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Farmer Posted February 24, 2014 Report Share Posted February 24, 2014 That makes sense El Boricua, I've cross referenced Flair's record book and his December of 1985 is pretty light so there a lot of open dates. The Colon & Invader I vs Sheepherders match is on youtube. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwin Posted February 26, 2014 Report Share Posted February 26, 2014 Random question, but who were the guys considered the best promos in PR's heyday? More specifically, how was Colon regarded as a promo at the time? Building on that, was Colon thought of as a good "worker" by hardcore Puerto Rican fans during the 80's/early 90's or was he seen as a Hogan type by them? In the heyday, Chicky Starr by far. In modern times, Ray Gonzales. Colon was seen as a local hometown hero and not based on his amazing in ring work, so I would say he was more of a Hogan. Puerto Rican wrestling fans have never been as picky about great in ring work or anything. They just get the kick out of going to arenas and booing the heels and cheering the faces. They're still very passionate about wrestling though. it'd be interesting to see how much of someone getting over in PR (or even Mexico) involved in-ring charisma (or being real impressive in the ring too) and how much involves stuff like mic-work or out the ring activities. In ring charisma is far more important in Puerto Rican wrestling than in ring work itself. You can suck at everything and be very charismatic and you'll still be loved by the fans if you're a face. Micwork in Puerto Rican wrestling is mostly important if you're a heel. Faces usually suck at promos down here which is why Chicky and Ray are the top 2 promo guys in Puerto Rican wrestling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WingedEagle Posted March 10, 2014 Report Share Posted March 10, 2014 So I was in PR on vacation this week and took the opportunity to ask any and everyone there about PR wrestling. A couple cab drivers clearly had a lot to say about Colon, Hansen, Ayala and others, based on the names I could make out. Unfortunately they didn't speak much English and I speak no Spanish so there were no stories to be shared. A few of the people who worked by the pool seemed familiar with names but clearly weren't big fans. Maybe next time if I make it back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Farmer Posted March 14, 2014 Report Share Posted March 14, 2014 Does anyone here have access to Puerto Rican newspaper called El Mucho (I think it's called that). They used to cover the weekly cards during the 80's and had line ups. It would help out putting some dates to the matches. I know one of the major colleges in Florida carries microfilm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Farmer Posted March 14, 2014 Report Share Posted March 14, 2014 Sorry it should read El Mundo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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