Loss Posted September 16, 2013 Report Share Posted September 16, 2013 I strongly agree that HHH should be the end game, not only because beating HHH means more than beating Orton, but also because I could foresee a situation where they plan for Orton to finally get his comeuppance once and for all, then he has his third strike wellness violation. I'm probably just a moron for thinking the belt at Mania should be a bigger endgame than HHH in 2013-2014. Vince wasn't even the endgame for Austin. It should be, but what benefits Daniel Bryan the most? Being the champion or getting revenge on a heel HHH? Also, the difference between HHH and Vince is that Vince wasn't a wrestler. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted September 16, 2013 Report Share Posted September 16, 2013 He gets revenge on HHH by being the champion and holding on to it and becoming the new face of the WWE, by proving that either A> he's what's best for business or B> that there are things that are more powerful and matter more like fighting spirit and staying true to yourself. So what if he beats him up. Bryan only wins if he changes the system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slasher Posted September 16, 2013 Report Share Posted September 16, 2013 He gets revenge on HHH by being the champion and holding on to it and becoming the new face of the WWE, by proving that either A> he's what's best for business or B> that there are things that are more powerful and matter more like fighting spirit and staying true to yourself. So what if he beats him up. Bryan only wins if he changes the system. That makes no sense. How does beating a wrestler prove to HHH any of these things? DB spent a summer beating the Shield, Orton, Cena and others. If that is all it took, HHH wouldn't have turned heel just to screw DB over. Bryan needs to beat HHH personally to send a message that he had what it took to be the man. HHH is the kind of character and man to build his own value to legend proportions. DB needs to pop that balloon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted September 16, 2013 Report Share Posted September 16, 2013 Do you really not see how having the belt matters? I guess I could see an argument for dovetailing this and having the belt held up with Hunter using BS to win it himself and then having that be the endgame, but I think being champion and thus "the face of WWE" is more important than pinning Hunter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted September 16, 2013 Report Share Posted September 16, 2013 Having the belt matters, but it's not enough on its own to make Daniel Bryan a star. Or else he would have already been made in 2011, just like Alberto Del Rio and The Miz would be seen as top guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted September 16, 2013 Report Share Posted September 16, 2013 It's not just having the belt. It's having the belt in this specific angle where the idea presented in the storyline is that Orton is the face of the WWE since he has the belt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slasher Posted September 16, 2013 Report Share Posted September 16, 2013 DB has the belt right now. He had the belt at Summerslam. The boss is proving that it takes more than gaining the belt. You have to ensure to the fans that the belt is here to stay around DB's waist. You have to deal with Triple H personally. The belt becomes an arbitrary thing after. If they build to Mania with DB finally gaining the belt, there at least needs to be a No Way Out cage match with Vinc-errr Triple H first. Just to eliminate that spectre of a threat from that ultimate Mania chase for a main event championship victory. Again if HHH isn't dealt with, how do you explain to the fans, "Triple H gets it now. It just took DB winning the match like he did many times before"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted September 16, 2013 Report Share Posted September 16, 2013 Yes, well, I don't quite understand why he has the belt now. And I absolutely think he should have a No Way Out sort of cage match with HHH to get into the Rumble or something. I've said that before. I think the end goal has to be winning the belt in a meaningful way though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slasher Posted September 16, 2013 Report Share Posted September 16, 2013 By the way, I think you are missing the point on Orton being the face of the company "because" he had the belt. He was never presented that way. The company made it clear they didn't like Cena as their champion but they begrudgingly accepted it. Vince made it clear he can't have a midget be the champion and face of the company. So when Orton came out to tease the cash in, Triple H saw the opportunity to solve their problems. So he pedigreed DB and invited Orton in. Orton is the good looking guy who is presented as a guy who would go along with the wishes of the corporation. He is a guy who was manufactured completely by the WWE into some kind of popular babyface. He was the PERFECT choice. It isn't like Triple H looked at Orton with different eyes because he gained the title at Summerslam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slasher Posted September 16, 2013 Report Share Posted September 16, 2013 Yes, well, I don't quite understand why he has the belt now. And I absolutely think he should have a No Way Out sort of cage match with HHH to get into the Rumble or something. I've said that before. I think the end goal has to be winning the belt in a meaningful way though. I agree he needs to win the title in a meaningful way. I just think the way some video games do it, with the second to last boss being this impossible foe you take days to beat, followed by the weakling final boss where you just slash a few times with your weapon to win, is the way togo. So HHH has to be that impossible foe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted September 16, 2013 Report Share Posted September 16, 2013 The flip side is that if Bryan had the belt, he would have a legitimate claim to being the face of the WWE. It wasn't just that Orton was their handpicked champion, it was that Bryan DID NOT have the title, because that would be "bad for business." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slasher Posted September 16, 2013 Report Share Posted September 16, 2013 The flip side is that if Bryan had the belt, he would have a legitimate claim to being the face of the WWE. It wasn't just that Orton was their handpicked champion, it was that Bryan DID NOT have the title, because that would be "bad for business." You are right that Orton wasn't the handpicked champion in the sense that they conspired to do the angle at Summerslam beforehand. But Orton was clearly preferred to Cena or DB. If DB had the belt and that established him, they would have let him close Summerslam with that elaborate celebration. Loss already presented examples of champions who did not become the face of the company. It takes more than holding the belt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bix Posted September 16, 2013 Report Share Posted September 16, 2013 I strongly agree that HHH should be the end game, not only because beating HHH means more than beating Orton, but also because I could foresee a situation where they plan for Orton to finally get his comeuppance once and for all, then he has his third strike wellness violation.Dave Meltzer a month ago: Strike three will be a tainted supplement or a quack doctor in Texas taking the fall. Orton doesn't get a strike three. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slasher Posted September 16, 2013 Report Share Posted September 16, 2013 I strongly agree that HHH should be the end game, not only because beating HHH means more than beating Orton, but also because I could foresee a situation where they plan for Orton to finally get his comeuppance once and for all, then he has his third strike wellness violation.Dave Meltzer a month ago: Strike three will be a tainted supplement or a quack doctor in Texas taking the fall. Orton doesn't get a strike three. That is a cynical view. The WWE had to get rid of Jeff Hardy and Kurt Angle when they had to and they were more popular than Orton is. Granted I don't think Orton is into the same kind of stuff they were, so this is certainly possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smack2k Posted September 16, 2013 Report Share Posted September 16, 2013 I am psyched for tonight's RAW and the thought of HHH taking the belt back off of DB will make him even MORE hated...I think the general audience will still be really into this whole thing. They know DB won and can beat Orton, but the Regime and COO took it away on some "contingency" or something. Watching Orton take the belt back and say he never would have been beated without the ref issue will be gold as he's such an ass will look like an even bigger douche doing it. I hate Randy Orton, but want to watch when he's there now... So I am taking this week by week...I WANT a long drawn out thing, but with so many PPV's its gonna be tough with today's "I want it right now" society and attitude... I know DB wasnt keeping the belt, but I was surprised to see a straight up match with an end and not some run-ins....this is just getting going and I am enjoying it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted September 16, 2013 Report Share Posted September 16, 2013 I am psyched for tonight's RAW and the thought of HHH taking the belt back off of DB will make him even MORE hated...I think the general audience will still be really into this whole thing. They know DB won and can beat Orton, but the Regime and COO took it away on some "contingency" or something. Watching Orton take the belt back and say he never would have been beated without the ref issue will be gold as he's such an ass will look like an even bigger douche doing it. I hate Randy Orton, but want to watch when he's there now... So I am taking this week by week...I WANT a long drawn out thing, but with so many PPV's its gonna be tough with today's "I want it right now" society and attitude... I know DB wasnt keeping the belt, but I was surprised to see a straight up match with an end and not some run-ins....this is just getting going and I am enjoying it... I think the biggest problem is the number of PPVs and especially the fact that Hell in a Cell is upcoming. That said the build to Night of Champions wasn't exactly well balanced and overly smart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slasher Posted September 16, 2013 Report Share Posted September 16, 2013 I have to ask since I didn't see the match but in terms of distribution, how much of the match was Orton in control vs DB being in control? If DB played the underdog, they shouldn't have Orton making the claim he wouldn't have lost if not for the ref, because it would be too true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badlittlekitten Posted September 16, 2013 Report Share Posted September 16, 2013 He hit Randy with the move that beat Cena. That's all that matters really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Posted September 16, 2013 Report Share Posted September 16, 2013 Slasher makes a good point. If Orton got as much offense as, say, a WWF heel tag team in the 80s, the finish fallout of Orton whining about the refereeing works very well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slasher Posted September 16, 2013 Report Share Posted September 16, 2013 The more I think about it, the more I hope they don't actually do the dusty finish. I like the picture in my head of a cocksure boss HHH who thinks he is right, and therefore DB can't possibly stay champion too long. So he books challengers with increasing difficulty, only for DB to plow through them all. THEN HHH can step in the ring in the end, only for DB to beat him too. Imagine if DB as champion is the guy who ends the streak of Undertaker at Wrestlemania, employed as HHH's trump card. Wouldn't that establish DB in the biggest way? Hell HHH could even book a 1992 Rumble scenario by forcing DB to defend it as the #1 entrant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted September 16, 2013 Report Share Posted September 16, 2013 Taking the belt off Bryan makes me think more of how Bischoff would overturn every time the Outsiders lost the WCW tag titles. As Will mentioned, I don't think people have the patience for a long term "face gets unfairly removed as champ" angle. Too many people expect instant gratification. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smack2k Posted September 16, 2013 Report Share Posted September 16, 2013 The more I think about it, the more I hope they don't actually do the dusty finish. I like the picture in my head of a cocksure boss HHH who thinks he is right, and therefore DB can't possibly stay champion too long. So he books challengers with increasing difficulty, only for DB to plow through them all. THEN HHH can step in the ring in the end, only for DB to beat him too. Imagine if DB as champion is the guy who ends the streak of Undertaker at Wrestlemania, employed as HHH's trump card. Wouldn't that establish DB in the biggest way? Hell HHH could even book a 1992 Rumble scenario by forcing DB to defend it as the #1 entrant. This would be cool to see, but no way WWE does something new and fresh like that!! As for the removing the belt...doing it once is fine....Bischoff just kept doing it over and over....if they do it tonight, it will depend how they do it and DONT DO IT AGAIN.. But this will never make it to Mania....way too much time until then...althought I wish with good booking it could get there....maybe WWE will prove me wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tim Posted September 16, 2013 Report Share Posted September 16, 2013 The more I think about it, the more I hope they don't actually do the dusty finish. I like the picture in my head of a cocksure boss HHH who thinks he is right, and therefore DB can't possibly stay champion too long. So he books challengers with increasing difficulty, only for DB to plow through them all. THEN HHH can step in the ring in the end, only for DB to beat him too. Imagine if DB as champion is the guy who ends the streak of Undertaker at Wrestlemania, employed as HHH's trump card. Wouldn't that establish DB in the biggest way? Hell HHH could even book a 1992 Rumble scenario by forcing DB to defend it as the #1 entrant.I do feel like if there was ever the right guy to feed Taker's streak to, it's Bryan right now. How much he'll need months from now is the question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s1rweeze Posted September 16, 2013 Report Share Posted September 16, 2013 I'm probably just a moron for thinking the belt at Mania should be a bigger endgame than HHH in 2013-2014. They could potentially do both by putting the title on HHH, which would no doubt piss off absolutely everyone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Redman Posted September 17, 2013 Report Share Posted September 17, 2013 The flip side is that if Bryan had the belt, he would have a legitimate claim to being the face of the WWE. It wasn't just that Orton was their handpicked champion, it was that Bryan DID NOT have the title, because that would be "bad for business." Exactly, which is why every time Bryan wins the belt, Hunter is going to find some way to take it off him, because he doesn't want Bryan holding it, and this storyline is all about how impossible it is to hold the belt if the boss doesn't want you to. So Bryan winning the belt as an end game only works if the threat of Hunter screwing him over the next night is eliminated. Hence, defeating Hunter (in some way) is the real big boss, even though for the story to complete he also has to win the title. But this time, he gets to keep it, because he defeated Hunter in some way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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