awesomemiz Posted October 2, 2013 Report Share Posted October 2, 2013 I've been thinking alot recently about the greatest feuds/Matches that are rarely looked at due to them not including a title or been a main event and wonder what everyone elses thoughts on this is? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted October 2, 2013 Report Share Posted October 2, 2013 First one that popped into my head was the Jake and Savage feud which blew off at This Tuesday in Texas. Most of Jake's WWF feuds would probably be good for this thread, but that's the pick of them for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted October 2, 2013 Report Share Posted October 2, 2013 The issue with Savage vs Jake is that it really never got resolved, they just transitionned it toward Taker. Jake's drug issue really ruined his heel career at this point, because he was awesome in the role, and had the best music theme ever to boot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yo-Yo's Roomie Posted October 2, 2013 Report Share Posted October 2, 2013 Pillman/Windham. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awesomemiz Posted October 2, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 2, 2013 the jake/savage stuff is great but wot time frame is the windham/pillman feud from? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yo-Yo's Roomie Posted October 2, 2013 Report Share Posted October 2, 2013 1991. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted October 2, 2013 Report Share Posted October 2, 2013 The issue with Savage vs Jake is that it really never got resolved, they just transitionned it toward Taker. Jake's drug issue really ruined his heel career at this point, because he was awesome in the role, and had the best music theme ever to boot. It also drew for total shit. I don't recall it being especially good, either. I think most of Jake's feuds in the WWF ended up being better on Superstars/Challenge than in the ring/PPV. Jake-Steamer was better as an angle than in the ring. Jack-Rude was a great angle and pretty so-so in the ring. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted October 2, 2013 Report Share Posted October 2, 2013 All about the promos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WingedEagle Posted October 2, 2013 Report Share Posted October 2, 2013 I still vividly remember the Jake/Rude angle even though I was 7 or 8 at the time. Felt completely different from everything else going on on TV at the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted October 2, 2013 Report Share Posted October 2, 2013 Well, this is pretty much the story of Jake's career. The only time I thought he was really solid in teh ring was in Mid-South. After that... Same story in SMW. Awesome promos and terrific angles. Matches were dull, well, until he no-showed that is. What is great watching Tuesday in Texas, is to see how much heat a simple slap on Liz got, and how it was sold like a huge deal. Fast forward to the late 90's : people cheered for the Dudleys (heels) putting Terri Runnels through a table. Something got very wrong at some point. And although I still define myself as an ECW fan, violence against women is one of the really terrible thing this promotion made "cool", although it didn't always looked *that* terrible in its own deranged settings. The transition to the major leagues on the other hand really bothered me. Once again, Russo was a big reason why it happened, and he went totally crazy with it in WCW. Sorry for sidetracking the thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted October 2, 2013 Report Share Posted October 2, 2013 Kawada-Taue from 1990-92 wasn't a "main event" feud on it's own. If they were in tags that were in the main, it was more Jumbo-Misawa that were the main event anchors while Kawada and Taue were their respective back ups. There was only one title match involving Taue and Kawada on opposite sides, and it as well is (very) famous because of Jumbo and Misawa. It was pretty good. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peachchaos Posted October 2, 2013 Report Share Posted October 2, 2013 Took me a minute to think about it, but Benoit-Sullivan 96-98 came to mind. A headed feud based on a real life angle that culminated in a brutal match, a match so good they would often bring it back to pop the ratings on free TV. Needless to say, pretty surreal and tragic stuff to watch today, but it was about as hot an undercard feud as you could have in 1996, as it also tied into the Horsemen-Dungeon-Maniacs-WTF feud. I'm always a sucker for a good face-turn, so something like Dibiase-Virgil or Corino-Tajiri is perfect undercard fodder to me. In the case of Tajiri-Corino, their angle + match surpass nearly anything else in company history. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mookeighana Posted October 2, 2013 Report Share Posted October 2, 2013 Everything about the Rey Mysterio jr vs Eddy Guerrero Feud in WCW from Sept 1997 to Nov 1997 was incredible. Rey's previous feud with Ultimo Dragon (August to Nov 1996) had great stuff too. Likewise, Dean/Ultimo (Dec 96 to Feb 97) was stellar. Big fan of Rey's work with Tajiri in Sept 2003-Jan 2004 as well. The singles matches in the Shawn/Marty Jannetty breakup in 1993 were awesome. Awesome Kong/Gail Kim Dec 2008 to August 2008 TNA work was great... that might be "main event" in a way though since it was the premiere women's feud in the US. Benoit/Guerrero had lots of good singles matches from 1995 to 1997 WCW and the Malenko/Benoit vs Jericho/Guerrero tags in 1998 were awesome. (Of course they rekindled that feud from 2001 to 2005 in WWE as well.) Of course Hardyz vs Edge/Christian (and throw the Dudleyz in there too) produced a ton of great matches, but I wouldn't consider those "forgotten". Depends on what you mean by "main event" - obviously the Daniels/AJ/Samoa Joe matches were terrific and really for TNA at the time, they were the draw that people cared most about. Jericho/Edge had a terrific feud in Summer 2002 including being part of "the greatest episode of Smackdown ever?" with a cage match. I loved all of the Angle/Rey interactions in WWE from 2002 to 2006 - starting at SummerSlam and continuing Kurt's very last Smackdown match (6/2/06). Ricky Steamboat vs Steve Austin in WCW (1992-1994) including Steamboat/Douglas vs Hollywood Blonds? Benoit/Finlay - 1998 in WCW and 2006 in WWE? Tajiri/Nunzio/Super Crazy in ECW 1999-2001? If you want really off the beaten path, DDP vs Marc Mero (Johnny B Badd) in late 1995/early 1996 is better than one might expect? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfman Posted October 2, 2013 Report Share Posted October 2, 2013 R&R Express vs Midnight Express Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted October 2, 2013 Report Share Posted October 2, 2013 All about the promos. It was about this: And then later this: Angles rather than promos. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boondocks Kernoodle Posted October 2, 2013 Report Share Posted October 2, 2013 You can add Jake's feud with Sting to the list as it started with a hot initial angle, drew very well on PPV by WCW standards and culminated in a boring match. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Sorrow Posted October 2, 2013 Report Share Posted October 2, 2013 Jimmy Valiant vs Paul Jones' Army is my pick for greatest non Main event feud. Match quality be damned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted October 2, 2013 Report Share Posted October 2, 2013 I think the Jake vs. Savage feud is definitely a combination of angles and promos carrying it. I agree with the general idea that it stands out because of its difference from everything else going on at that time in WWF. The promos are notable for how off-the-hook intense they are and how close to the bone they get. You add that to the shock of Liz getting slapped and it's not the sort of feud you forget. But my point with the promos was more general. i.e. "With, Jake, it's all about the promos". The Ted vs. Jake feud is one where I'd say Jake's promos are really carrying things. If Jake ever had a match higher than about a ***1/2 in WWF, I've never seen it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted October 2, 2013 Report Share Posted October 2, 2013 Jake is the Don Muraco of the Expansion Era. Fun guy, excellent memorable angles, worked the mic strong, people thought he was better than he really was, an aura has built up around him, you can see flashes of "great" within matches but the whole is rarely better than the pieces. Macho vs Snake on SNME in 1986 was terrific. That's pretty much a match where it all came together for Snake. Except... Macho was the best worker in the WWF and was having the one year that could challenge Patera '80 for the title of Best Year By A WWF Heel In The 80s. Macho actually had a watchable match with Steele on SNME. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohtani's jacket Posted October 2, 2013 Report Share Posted October 2, 2013 All about the promos. Jake cut some killer promos in that feud like his interview at Survivor Series '91 and his post-match interview at This Tuesday in Texas. Savage's promos were a continuous stream of "Elizabit" and "blame myself" with Randy slapping himself a lot. Not quite as good. Great angle though and a great way to reinstate Savage. The ringwork wasn't that bad. It was definitely watchable from a storyline point of view. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted October 2, 2013 Report Share Posted October 2, 2013 I would say the promo where Jake said he should have to pay money to feel as good as he did when he slapped Liz was a very memorable moment in that feud, so I agree with Jerry that the angles and the promos were both key parts of it, and I could tell that's what he meant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted October 2, 2013 Report Share Posted October 2, 2013 I thought the Slap was a far bigger deal than Jake talking about the slap post match. Someone smacking the shit out of Liz was a bigger deal than someone talking about doing it. Not dissimilar to the Wedding Crashing and The Bite: all three of the angles were hardcore and memorable (peaking with the second one), and they were supported by some good promos. Jake cut great promos. He almost always did. Anyway, on the original premise of the thread: Jake vs Macho was a main event feud. It main evented the non-Flair vs Hogan/Piper cards around the horn: WWF @ Minneapolis, MN - December 28, 1991 (9,000) Tito Santana pinned Skinner Ted Dibiase pinned Jim Brunzell (sub. for Kerry Von Erich) with a powerslam Davey Boy Smith defeated the Berzerker via disqualification after the Berzerker shoved the referee IRS pinned the Big Bossman with a small package and using the ropes for leverage Hulk Hogan defeated Ric Flair via count-out after attacking both Flair and Mr. Perfect on the floor Hercules pinned Greg Valentine after 15 minutes by using the tights for leverage WWF IC Champion Bret Hart defeated the Mountie via submission with the Sharpshooter after 10 minutes Roddy Piper & the Bushwhackers defeated the Genius & the Beverly Brothers when Piper pinned one of the Beverlys with a roll up WWF @ Richfield, OH - Coliseum - December 28, 1991 Chris Chavis defeated Kato Sgt. Slaughter defeated Col. Mustafa & Gen. Adnan in a handicap match The Undertaker defeated Jim Duggan WWF Tag Team Champion Road Warrior Animal pinned Typhoon Randy Savage defeated Jake Roberts via disqualification The Warlord pinned Chris Walker Virgil defeated Repo Man via disqualification The Nasty Boys defeated Shawn Michaels & Marty Jannetty WWF @ New York City, NY - Madison Square Garden - December 29, 1991 (11,000) Televised on the MSG Network 12/31/91 - featured Gorilla Monsoon & Bobby Heenan on commentary; included an in-ring promo by Col. Mustafa & Gen. Adnan in which they insulted Sgt. Slaughter: Prime Time Wrestling - 2/3/92: Davey Boy Smith pinned the Berzerker with a small package at 5:05 Prime Time Wrestling - 2/3/92: Sgt. Slaughter defeated Gen. Adnan & Col. Mustafa in a handicap flag match at 3:27 by pinning Mustafa with a clothesline; after the bout, Slaughter led the crowd in saying the Pledge of Alliegence Prime Time Wrestling - 1/20/92: Hercules pinned Greg Valentine by lifting his shoulder out of a back suplex into a bridge at 7:44 Prime Time Wrestling - 1/27/92: The Nasty Boys defeated the Bushwhackers when Knobbs pinned Butch at around 9:45 with a clothesline; after the bout, the Nastys continued to assault their opponents until Sgt. Slaughter made the save Prime Time Wrestling - 1/27/92: Skinner pinned Jim Powers with the reverse DDT at 6:51 Prime Time Wrestling - 1/20/92: Chris Walker pinned the Brooklyn Brawler with a flying bodypress at 4:02 Virgil defeated Repo Man via disqualification at 9:35 when Repo began choking Virgil with his rope Prime Time Wrestling - 1/20/92: WWF IC Champion Bret Hart fought Ted Dibiase (w/ Sensational Sherri) to a 20-minute time-limit draw at 19:06 as Hart chased Sherri around ringside and into the ring; late in the bout, as Dibiase had Hart in the Million $ Dream, Sherri ran over and rang the time keeper's bell which resulted in the match pausing until referee Earl Hebner ordered the match to continue; after the bout, Dibiase attempted to attack Hart with the title belt but was clotheslined to the floor Hulk Hogan defeated Ric Flair (w/ Mr. Perfect) via count-out at 10:09 after ramming Flair's head into the ringpost on the floor; after the match, Flair jumped Hogan from behind but Hogan fought him off and sent him to the floor (Hulk Hogan: The Unreleased Archives) WWF @ Chicago, IL - Rosemont Horizon - December 29, 1991 Chris Walker defeated the Brooklyn Brawler The Warlord defeated Greg Valentine Sgt. Slaughter defeated Col. Mustafa & Gen. Adnan in a handicap match The Nasty Boys defeated the Bushwhackers WWF Tag Team Champion Road Warrior Animal defeated Earthquake Virgil defeated Repo Man Tito Santana defeated Ted Dibiase Hulk Hogan defeated Ric Flair WWF @ Auburn Hills, MI - Palace - December 29, 1991 (5,500) Chris Chavis defeated Kato The Beverly Brothers defeated Shawn Michaels & Marty Jannetty Kerry Von Erich defeated the Mountie Tito Santana defeated the Warlord The Big Bossman defeated IRS WWF Tag Team Champion Road Warrior Animal defeated Typhoon The Undertaker defeated Jim Duggan Randy Savage defeated Jake Roberts This was still the era of the WWF working split crews in the house shows, and they always had 3-4 main event programs. For example, Flair-Piper was a main event program at the time, since Hogan only worked weekend / a limited schedule. It's a bit like seeing Tito vs Macho / Tito & Bruno vs Savage & Adonis main event the 3/16/86, 5/19/86, 6/14/86 & 7/12/86 MSG cards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted October 2, 2013 Report Share Posted October 2, 2013 I've been thinking alot recently about the greatest feuds/Matches that are rarely looked at due to them not including a title or been a main event I've been trying to think of some more. That Cornette vs. Paul E. feud and match from 1989 is really fun. The match is about as perfect as it could be for two managers. Also, how much do people talk about Piper vs. Rude from 89? The MSG cage match from SNME sticks in my mind as having great heat. I also have "I'm thankful because I ain't Ricky Rude. *kiss*" etched into my memory. That feud is the epitome of FUN for me. Umm .... I really really like Perfect vs. Luger in 93 too. Matches are okay, I guess, but love the dynamic of that feud. "Out of these two colossal egos, who has the bigger one?" There might be an argument to say that little 3-month stretch leading into WM9 was Hennig's best stuff in WWF in terms of being a great on-screen character. He was a remarkably cocky babyface for that time, and somehow the aura of him being "Mr. Perfect" with the crowd cheering too is just very cool. I wish that Luger could have stayed heel and that we got more of that feud. I seldom see anyone but me talk about it. They did a great call back to it at WMX when Perfect was the ref, but again I don't think it went anywhere. -- sadly doesn't look like any of this made the 93 yearbook either. Finally, I'm still greatly amused by the "Sapphire gets bought" feud, not just the concept of DiBiase "buying" this useless woman just to be a prick, but all the stuff around it. Especially the scene they play over and over again on Place to Be with Dusty searching for her and Duggan busting out "No I haven't, Dust, but we're all still looking for her" I tend to gravitate towards the nonsense. I think the natural place to look for in-ring stuff would be WCW for the entirety of the time Hogan was on top. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrickHithouse Posted October 2, 2013 Report Share Posted October 2, 2013 Steamboat vs Austin from 92 and 94 (?) was one of my favorites at that time. Not sure how it holds up on re-watch but it is a fond memory right now. But it headlined a show in front of 300 people in Tulsa one time so I guess it's disqualified. EDIT: It was also for a title. Nevermind, forget Steamer-Austin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted October 3, 2013 Report Share Posted October 3, 2013 The title aspect makes it touch because so many good "lesser" feuds also has a "lesser title". MX vs Fans in 1988 wasn't main event... but damn, there was the US Tag Titles. R'n'R vs MX was an iconic feuds in a series of phases, but a lot of those phases had titles. Andre vs Killer Khan wasn't for a title, but was pretty big. Wait... Slaughter-Patterson and Slaughter vs Sheik? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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