anarchistxx Posted November 10, 2013 Report Share Posted November 10, 2013 Who would Ringwald's equivalent be? K-Stew? Maybe Emma Watson for someone more closely associated with a specific series of films- 'the Brat Pack films', 'the Potter films'? Emma Watson is a poor comparison; the Harry Potter films grossed far, far more than any Ringwald films ever did. The first Harry Potter film made twenty times more at the box office than The Breakfast Club. Close to $1 billion, compared to $50 million. Even adjusted for inflation, there is no real comparison. The Harry Potter films appealed to a massive demographic - who watched brat pack films in the 80s except for people between the ages of 10 and, say, 35? Someone like Sarah Bolger is a better comparison to Ringwald, or at best Vanessa Hudgens or somebody, but that is being generous. As for who is Hulk Hogan in 2013, nobody is. The television landscape has changed dramatically; with the domination of reality television and the success of realistic, intelligent dramas like Mad Men and The Sopranos you don't get those larger than life, cartoon character icons. They seem pretty exclusive to the 80s, where everything was more colorful and brash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted November 10, 2013 Report Share Posted November 10, 2013 the 00s Hogan is what, Dog the Bounty Hunter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Childs Posted November 10, 2013 Report Share Posted November 10, 2013 I think the disconnect is Loss arguing that Hogan is a fringe figure because pro wrestling has mostly been a fringe element of pop culture. I agree with his characterization of wrestling, but Hogan reached his peak of fame at the one time when WWF was just as mainstream as Transformers or John Hughes movies. So, though I'd agree with him on just about any other wrestler, I think he has underestimated Hogan's stardom in this thread. I say that while acknowledging Hogan isn't on the level of Madonna or Michael Jackson and isn't a "respected" figure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Boricua Posted November 10, 2013 Report Share Posted November 10, 2013 There's a difference between being able to successfully identify what medium a celebrity or character originates from and actually knowing who they are in any sort of meaningful way. If I'm reading Loss correctly, the big thing he's saying is that people know Hulk Hogan as the definitive professional wrestler...and that's it. You are right about this. It's called the difference between awareness and familiarity. The discussion seems to have some people talking about awareness and others about familiarity, so there will be disagreement since they are not the same thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted November 10, 2013 Report Share Posted November 10, 2013 Thank you, S.L.L.. You articulated my point far better than I could. I agree that Hogan is recognizable. He has a distinctive look. I think more people could identify him after seeing a photo than they could any other wrestler, and probably even other celebrities who were more famous than him at various points, simply because his look is so distinctive. My argument is against him being a "pop culture icon". The difference between awareness and familiarity is a perfect way to put it. Awareness is a step farther than most wrestlers in history, and people are more aware of Hogan than they are other wrestlers. But could they name his three biggest matches? If you asked 10 people on the street what the main event was of Wrestlemania III, how many would be able to answer? I do think the WWF was as close to being mainstream as wrestling ever has been, but when I think of 80s mainstream I think of several steps above Hogan's fame. I definitely give him credit for what he accomplished. It was significant and will likely never be duplicated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anarchistxx Posted November 10, 2013 Report Share Posted November 10, 2013 Loss makes some excellent points there. It is a strong argument that Hogan's look is more iconic than Hogan himself. These days Hogan is mainly famous for being famous.. Awareness is a step farther than most wrestlers in history, and people are more aware of Hogan than they are other wrestlers. But could they name his three biggest matches? Nope. But your average person on the street couldn't name three Molly Ringwald films either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted November 10, 2013 Report Share Posted November 10, 2013 Reading over this, I don't think Loss and I disagree at all, except perhaps over semantics as to what "icon" means. My belief is that being an "icon" only stretches to the shallow snap-jerk recognition I'm talking about. "Oh, that's Marylin Monroe" I don't think the average person could name three Monroe films either. This, to me, is the definition of being an icon. Instant recognition despite not really knowing anything about said person. Loss, at times, seems like he's talking more about cultural impact or penetration. I think after all these distinctions have been made, everyone ultimately agrees. Happy ending to this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yo-Yo's Roomie Posted November 10, 2013 Report Share Posted November 10, 2013 Who would Ringwald's equivalent be? K-Stew? Maybe Emma Watson for someone more closely associated with a specific series of films- 'the Brat Pack films', 'the Potter films'? Emma Watson is a poor comparison; the Harry Potter films grossed far, far more than any Ringwald films ever did. The first Harry Potter film made twenty times more at the box office than The Breakfast Club. Close to $1 billion, compared to $50 million. Even adjusted for inflation, there is no real comparison. The Harry Potter films appealed to a massive demographic - who watched brat pack films in the 80s except for people between the ages of 10 and, say, 35? Someone like Sarah Bolger is a better comparison to Ringwald, or at best Vanessa Hudgens or somebody, but that is being generous. As for who is Hulk Hogan in 2013, nobody is. The television landscape has changed dramatically; with the domination of reality television and the success of realistic, intelligent dramas like Mad Men and The Sopranos you don't get those larger than life, cartoon character icons. They seem pretty exclusive to the 80s, where everything was more colorful and brash. Well, the Potter films grossed more than most films ever, but that doesn't make their stars amongst the most famous actors ever. The success of the films is beside the point. I don't really know how good the comparison is, because I'm too young to really appreciate how big a star Ringwald was, but it wouldn't surprise me if she was a bigger star at her peak than Watson, who doesn't seem to get a whole tonne of play in the mainstream media, and is probably known more as Hermione than by her own name. I'm just looking for rough comparisons based on fame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted November 10, 2013 Report Share Posted November 10, 2013 Maybe it's because I'm French but… who the fuck is Molly Greenwald anyway ? If she's a "cultural pop icon", it's most probably strictly an English speaking deal. On the other hand, I know who Emma Watson is, and I never cared one way or another for Harry Potters movies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted November 10, 2013 Report Share Posted November 10, 2013 Modern-day Ringwald = Ellen Page. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted November 10, 2013 Report Share Posted November 10, 2013 I had to check out Wiki to know who Ellen Page is. I maybe not the best one to gauge pop-culture relevance, I still haven't seen Inception BTW, and I didn't remember who was the girl in Juno. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NintendoLogic Posted November 10, 2013 Report Share Posted November 10, 2013 The way Loss defines it, Hogan is not a pop culture icon. But neither is Molly Ringwald. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted November 10, 2013 Report Share Posted November 10, 2013 I honestly don't have a sense of Molly Ringwald's level of fame in the 80s. I was a kid. So Ellen Page might be off (someone who has been in big/ biggish films whose name might not be on the tip of your tongue). She might have been more akin to a Cameron Diaz or Liz Hurley (actresses in hit comedies who were on the tips of everyone's tongues in the 90s). Someone who was a teenager in the 80s might know better. Johnny? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted November 10, 2013 Report Share Posted November 10, 2013 The way Loss defines it, Hogan is not a pop culture icon. But neither is Molly Ringwald. No, she's not. She was a bigger deal in the 80s though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigerpride Posted November 10, 2013 Report Share Posted November 10, 2013 Way more people know Hulk Hogan today than Molly Ringwald. And he's way above Clara Peller. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted November 10, 2013 Report Share Posted November 10, 2013 My point in even bringing her up was that while we talk about Hogan's huge stardom in the 1980s, there are people a lot of us have probably forgotten about that were a bigger deal at the time. Wrestling had a boom in popularity, but pop culture wasn't drastically affected by the wrestling boom of the 80s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted November 10, 2013 Report Share Posted November 10, 2013 Way more people know Hulk Hogan today than Molly Ringwald. And he's way above Clara Peller. No one has said this isn't true. Jesus. I have said this 743 times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigerpride Posted November 10, 2013 Report Share Posted November 10, 2013 He's probably just slightly above the "Where's The Beef?" lady in stature. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigerpride Posted November 10, 2013 Report Share Posted November 10, 2013 He's probably just slightly above the "Where's The Beef?" lady in stature. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted November 10, 2013 Report Share Posted November 10, 2013 Where in that statement do I say "More people recognize Molly Ringwald in 2013 than Hulk Hogan"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigerpride Posted November 10, 2013 Report Share Posted November 10, 2013 Molly Ringwald hasn't had the longevity of Hulk Hogan as far as movies and television, but are you going to tell me that Hogan is the person more people know between the two? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted November 10, 2013 Report Share Posted November 10, 2013 Which was later clarified: One thing that may help -- who are some non-wrestling celebrities that you would compare to Hogan in terms of general fame? I'm thinking not even just individual celebrities, but pop culture concepts that were hugely popular, be it for a short period of time or something that endured. I agree that Hogan probably has a more recognizable face than Molly Ringwald simply because he's so distinctive and she's been out of the public eye for so long. But I do think if we were ranking pop culture phenomenons of the 1980s, the Brat Pack would rank well above Hulk Hogan. I hope that clarifies my point. And clarified again: That does help, and I wouldn't disagree with any of the names mentioned. Richard Simmons seems like a great pick. I had the perception for some reason that people in this thread saw him as an Ali/Jordan type. I probably understated his place in history. I mean, yes, more people probably have heard the song "Rico Suave" than have watched a Hulk Hogan match, but that doesn't mean Gerardo is a bigger pop culture phenomenon than Hulk Hogan. I poorly explained my point. And clarified again: Not quite "bigger" and that's not really the point I intended to make. I think Hogan is probably the more enduring celebrity nearly 30 years after both of them peaked, but I do think Hulk Hogan at his most popular couldn't touch Molly Ringwald at her most popular. Wrestling is such a niche subculture hobby that appeals to a smaller segment of the population, while most people watch movies. Hulk Hogan was a big fish in a small pond. Just by the nature of what they are involved in, any actor/actress du jour will be more popular than the most popular wrestler. Wrestling means very little in the big picture of pop culture, which is the point I was trying to make. He's hardly a pop culture icon. He's a sidebar. He was doing 1-800-COLLECT commercials a few years back with Alf, a show that averaged 13 million viewers weekly in its *least* popular season (and 21 million viewers weekly at its peak). I'd put Alf above Hogan too, for that reason -- he was a bigger deal at the time that he was a big deal. Molly Ringwald was a bigger deal at the time she was a big deal. Yes, Hogan is still a footnote today, probably more so than Alf or Molly Ringwald, but the point I was trying to make is that I think the wrestling bubble was causing people to overstate Hogan's stardom. And even things like Gremlins, Cyndi Lauper, the end of the sexual revolution, hair metal, the keytar and The Goonies are more synonymous with the 80s. In terms of 80s figures, Michael Jackson is a pop culture icon. Madonna is a pop culture icon. The term should be reserved for people at that level. And clarified again: Of course not. She had a bigger medium supporting her than pro wrestling. I can't figure out if you're disagreeing with me or not.[/b] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonsault Marvin Posted November 10, 2013 Report Share Posted November 10, 2013 Maybe it's because I'm French but… who the fuck is Molly Greenwald anyway ? If she's a "cultural pop icon", it's most probably strictly an English speaking deal. The funny thing is Ringwald was famous for leaving the U.S. and moving to France as her career cooled off in the early 90's. The couple of French films she made must not have done well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Boricua Posted November 10, 2013 Report Share Posted November 10, 2013 I honestly don't have a sense of Molly Ringwald's level of fame in the 80s. I was a kid. So Ellen Page might be off (someone who has been in big/ biggish films whose name might not be on the tip of your tongue). She might have been more akin to a Cameron Diaz or Liz Hurley (actresses in hit comedies who were on the tips of everyone's tongues in the 90s). Someone who was a teenager in the 80s might know better. Johnny? Maybe an Emma Stone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted November 10, 2013 Report Share Posted November 10, 2013 Maybe it's because I'm French but… who the fuck is Molly Greenwald anyway ? If she's a "cultural pop icon", it's most probably strictly an English speaking deal. The funny thing is Ringwald was famous for leaving the U.S. and moving to France as her career cooled off in the early 90's. The couple of French films she made must not have done well. I checked. Hey, she was in "Enfants de salauds" ! So I actually saw her in a movie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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