WWE Network... It's Here

[Johnny Sorrow]

Wow, two shows in and 205 Live is just the worst. 🙄 Heaven forbid you let it grow and give it a chance to introduce characters and storylines . Some of you are the same types who would have cancelled Cheers after the first season.

Seriously, two whole shows and it's all "It All Stinks!" Stop it.

What happened this weekend? Such an influx of "Grrrr! I hate wrestling, grr, grrrr!"

[stro]

Wow, two shows in and 205 Live is just the worst. Heaven forbid you let it grow and give it a chance to introduce characters and storylines . Some of you are the same types who would have cancelled Cheers after the first season.

Seriously, two whole shows and it's all "It All Stinks!" Stop it.

What happened this weekend? Such an influx of "Grrrr! I hate wrestling, grr, grrrr!"

2 weeks for the show, but 3 months of the same guys doing the same things on Raw/PPV and no one reacting. Gallagher/Davari happened on the first show. Then on Raw. Then again on 205 Live the next night. 3 matches on TV in a week. The second week of the show had 2 of its 3 matches be rematches from the previous week. Definitely grrrrrrrr I hate wrestling stuff here, yep.

 

They've had 3 months to develop characters and storylines. It's going to have minimal storylines by default, because less than 1/3rd of people watching Raw even have the Network. It's a workrate show to appeal to the hardcores, but the hardcores also aren't very interested in the cruiserweights, and gives these dudes a bizarre schedule where they're working NXT TV/house shows, Raw, Raw house shows, Raw PPVs, while also having to travel and go to all the Smackdown shows, too.

[WingedEagle]

Yes, 205 Live is Cheers. That sounds about right.

[The Chief]

As goofy as the Raw Bowl was, I always mark out a little when Vince McMahon falls completely head over heels in love with one of his concepts. He really comes across as thinking this is going to be the next big thing.

[flyonthewall2983]

The flippiest guy of all back then was Lex Luger

[AirJordanFan93]

I wish they would make it easier to find individual matches. I mean yeah its easy enough to go to a PPV and use the marker points to find the match you want. But if I wanted to watch a random Shawn Michaels match I should be able to search his name and not need to sift through 100+ pages of marker points.

[AirJordanFan93]

As goofy as the Raw Bowl was, I always mark out a little when Vince McMahon falls completely head over heels in love with one of his concepts. He really comes across as thinking this is going to be the next big thing.

I would of loved to of heard mid-90s Vince try get over the Brawl for All.

[C.S.]

The Madusa episode of Legends With JBL was pretty good:

 

- Was Madusa homeless between her WCW and WWF stints? The timeline on that confused me. I don't remember there being such a gap between her time in WCW and her arrival in the WWF as Alundra Blayze, but it has been decades since I've watched any of that stuff.

 

- Excellent point that the Montreal Screwjob might not have ever happened if Madusa hadn't trashed the belt.

 

- WOW at her saying Trish wasn't a great wrestler. Such a refreshing change from the "official" WWE talking point that Trish was the best ever and the pioneer and savior of women's wrestling.

[El-P]

Sounds interesting. A legit Madusa shoot interview would be fascinanting thanks to her multiple experiences : AWA, WCW in the early 90's, mid-90's WWF, Nitro era, and of course the whole Japan years. Where is Sean Oliver when you need him (instead of doing yet again some Youshoot with current former WWE guys with shit to say)

 

- WOW at her saying Trish wasn't a great wrestler. Such a refreshing change from the "official" WWE talking point that Trish was the best ever and the pioneer and savior of women's wrestling.

 

I guess it's a much easier point to make today with Charlotte, Sasha, Bailey & Becky having legit great matches. Still surprising indeed.

 

As far as timelie goes, Madusa was still in WWF in the fall of 95. She worked against Bertha Faye on RAW in October but I guess left before Survivor Series, rumour has it she didn't want to work with Aja Kong. And then she showed up on Nitro in December.

[iamthedoctor]

Sounds interesting. A legit Madusa shoot interview would be fascinanting thanks to her multiple experiences : AWA, WCW in the early 90's, mid-90's WWF, Nitro era, and of course the whole Japan years. Where is Sean Oliver when you need him (instead of doing yet again some Youshoot with current former WWE guys with shit to say)

 

- WOW at her saying Trish wasn't a great wrestler. Such a refreshing change from the "official" WWE talking point that Trish was the best ever and the pioneer and savior of women's wrestling.

 

I guess it's a much easier point to make today with Charlotte, Sasha, Bailey & Becky having legit great matches. Still surprising indeed.

 

As far as timelie goes, Madusa was still in WWF in the fall of 95. She worked against Bertha Faye on RAW in October but I guess left before Survivor Series, rumour has it she didn't want to work with Aja Kong. And then she showed up on Nitro in December.

 

Yeah I enjoyed this one as well seems like it took ages for it to finally appear but I was suprised they let Madusa go as had always figured she had been the one that didnt want to stay after they wanted Aja Kong winning the belt at Rumble 96.

 

I do feel it was a bad decision on WWE's part to let her go.

[Fando]

Excellent point that the Montreal Screwjob might not have ever happened if Madusa hadn't trashed the belt

 

 

Yeah, isn't this actually the reason why that excuse is bullshit? Because of the lawsuit that resulted both WWE and WCW knew they could never get away with that again.

[El-P]

Well, watched the beginning of that show. Kinda odd to see shoot interviews on WWE TV now to be honest. Is JBL always that wooden ? He's a terribly dull interviewer, he's like an old fucked up Ken plastic figure. Got my bullshit detector going crazy in the first ten minutes already, with Madusa talking about how great a worker she was and how guys in WCW couldn't follow her matches. Well. I still want a real, non corporate interview with her so she can give actual memories of AJPW (instead of just "Japan"), but what I saw is soooo dry because of the usual WWE twist. The stuff where she was shooting shit with other girls was much more interesting. WWE produced shows are just so…. WWE.

 

EDIT : oh man, and now we have to hear again that Madusa trashing the belt was the start of the MNW. Funny how it wasn't even a blip on the radar for ever but since they got back to her now it's like the biggest event ever. That company...

[C.S.]

As far as timelie goes, Madusa was still in WWF in the fall of 95. She worked against Bertha Faye on RAW in October but I guess left before Survivor Series, rumour has it she didn't want to work with Aja Kong. And then she showed up on Nitro in December.

No, I mean the timeline between her first WCW stint ('91-'92 Dangerous Alliance) and Alundra Blayze. She claims she was homeless before joining the WWF.

 

 

Yeah, isn't this actually the reason why that excuse is bullshit? Because of the lawsuit that resulted both WWE and WCW knew they could never get away with that again.

They actually addressed that too.

 

JBL: "Vince didn't know that."

 

Whether that's bullshit or not, who knows, but I am inclined to believe that Vince would at least be paranoid enough to think Bischoff would try something. After all, Bischoff/WCW was already being sued anyway.

 

I do feel it was a bad decision on WWE's part to let her go.

The problem was, she was miscast from the start as a happy-go-lucky babyface. Anyone who saw her in WCW as Madusa (granted, that was probably a small fraction of the WWF audience) could never buy her as the face of the Women's division - I know I couldn't. I wanted the badass Madusa back (even with a new name).

 

There was a lot of that in the WWF at the time - "Made in the USA" Lex Luger never worked for the same reasons.

[WingedEagle]

Because I don't have enough open wrestling viewing projects that will never get finished, I'm thinking about going back and starting with modern/expansion-era WWF on the Network as well. Easy enough to go through PPVs and SNME's as there aren't many there. There is also a very comprehensive list of all old programming available which makes it easy to track things chronologically.

 

But between Tuesday Night Titans, Prime Time and recorded house shows there's enough programming to make any kind of complete approach unrealistic. Any handy lists of worthwhile matches / promos / angles available that could serve as a guide to picking & choosing?

[Fando]

 

Yeah, isn't this actually the reason why that excuse is bullshit? Because of the lawsuit that resulted both WWE and WCW knew they could never get away with that again.

They actually addressed that too.

 

JBL: "Vince didn't know that."

 

Whether that's bullshit or not, who knows, but I am inclined to believe that Vince would at least be paranoid enough to think Bischoff would try something. After all, Bischoff/WCW was already being sued anyway.

 

 

Didn't know what, that he would win millions of more dollars and crush them court? Not only was the lawsuit ongoing but Bret still had time on his contract, which Bischoff had no idea would be breached anyway. I'm gonna watch it tonight, but from her appearance on Table or 3 and the HOF I think this is more 1) Vince being a psycho who can't face reality and 2) adding to her legacy without which it's really a lackluster run in the mid-90s.

[Migs]

2006 and 2007 Smackdown is going up.

[C.S.]

Didn't know what

Vince "didn't know" that Bischoff supposedly never would have had Bret throw the belt in the trash because of the lawsuit.

[El-P]

 

Didn't know what

Vince "didn't know" that Bischoff supposedly never would have had Bret throw the belt in the trash because of the lawsuit.

 

Still. The whole "Madusa throwing the belt is the first major blow of the MNW" is a brand new narrative that magically appeared because of Madusa's HoF induction. Now we're getting even sillier with "Madusa throwing the belt is the reason why Montreal happened", when infact, yeah, the very fact Madusa threw down the belt and the following lawsuits made the very idea of WCW doing the same shit again with Bret Hart quite insane. WCW were stupid, but not that stupid.

[SteveJRogers]

EDIT : oh man, and now we have to hear again that Madusa trashing the belt was the start of the MNW. Funny how it wasn't even a blip on the radar for ever but since they got back to her now it's like the biggest event ever. That company...

1) It did lead to the aforementioned lawsuit. Unlike the WCW Big Gold (which was spat on), it was referred to its exact name, so it was a big deal at the time. WCW did use it often as a "memorable shots fired moment" in branded best of Nitro packages.

 

2) Watch that Lonley Road of Faith WWF history video produced in early 2002, it is spotlighted on there as a "bad times" clip. So you really can't sit on your "WWE revisionism bull shit high horse" when they used it as soon as they had the rights to the clip!

[El-P]

It wasn't the start of the MNW. Lex Luger showing up on Nitro was. Bischoff giving out results happened way before that point. Yeah, it did lead to a lawsuit. Then the Billionnaire Ted stuff happened. Then the other lawsuits about Razor & Diesel.

 

Madusa thrashing the belt wasn't that big of a deal when it happened really, apart from a "holy fuck" moment. It was given a brand new meaning this year, as part of the brand new WWE narrative of Alundra Blayze being a big deal and shit. Which, she really wasn't. Like, ever.

[SteveJRogers]

 

 

Didn't know what

Vince "didn't know" that Bischoff supposedly never would have had Bret throw the belt in the trash because of the lawsuit.

 

Still. The whole "Madusa throwing the belt is the first major blow of the MNW" is a brand new narrative that magically appeared because of Madusa's HoF induction. Now we're getting even sillier with "Madusa throwing the belt is the reason why Montreal happened", when infact, yeah, the very fact Madusa threw down the belt and the following lawsuits made the very idea of WCW doing the same shit again with Bret Hart quite insane. WCW were stupid, but not that stupid.

 

 

The ONLY way I can call bullshit on it influencing Montreal is Vince not trusting that Bret Hart would be that good of a former WWF solider not to give in to Bischoff's demands to run a "Title Belt on TV angle", brand new boss or not.

 

Vince was that desperate and paranoid, and Bischoff was that much of a petty narcissistic bully that Vince would buy pulling it off, pending lawsuit or not.

 

Its not that hard to believe considering this is carnie style bull shit we are dealing with!

[El-P]

Vince was that desperate and paranoid, and Bischoff was that much of a petty narcissistic bully that Vince would buy pulling it off, pending lawsuit or not.

 

Its not that hard to believe considering this is carnie style bull shit we are dealing with!

 

I can agree with this. Both made pretty stupid decisions at the time.

[SteveJRogers]

It wasn't the start of the MNW. Lex Luger showing up on Nitro was. Bischoff giving out results happened way before that point. Yeah, it did lead to a lawsuit. Then the Billionnaire Ted stuff happened. Then the other lawsuits about Razor & Diesel.

 

Madusa thrashing the belt wasn't that big of a deal when it happened really, apart from a "holy fuck" moment. It was given a brand new meaning this year, as part of the brand new WWE narrative of Alundra Blayze being a big deal and shit. Which, she really wasn't. Like, ever.

 

Luger didn't show up throwing his US Express/Allied Powers garb into a dumpster fire, though, he just showed up as if the last few years never happened and he was the same Lex Luger that lost to Sting at Superbrawl his last night with the company. It was a holy shit moment, but it was like any other random former guy showing up. IOW, its not treated as the same "this was a fuck you" moment to the WWF the way the title in the trash was. Hence the latter, and not the former was shown in that video package I mentioned.

[stro]

They've always mentioned Madusa dropping the title in the trash in literally everything about the MNW since The Rise and Fall of WCW. Years before Madusa was involved with the company again. The talking point of Vince not wanting to let Bret go with the title because of it has also been around since then. Neither just suddenly popped up when Madusa went into the HOF.

[The Chief]

WWE wanted Madusa back in 1998. The whole bad blood thing is something they've flipped on a million times.