goodhelmet Posted March 10, 2014 Report Share Posted March 10, 2014 On the latest MLW podcast, Disco Inferno was on and made the statement, "There are only two types of fans now... kids and smart fans". He made a pretty compelling argument but he argued that with the stream of information coming through, there really aren't casual fans anymore. He wasn't saying the fans are douches or that only a certain element get it but I am curious if you think there are more levels of fans than Disco gives credit to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted March 10, 2014 Report Share Posted March 10, 2014 I have been making an argument very similar to this for the last several years Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Sorrow Posted March 10, 2014 Report Share Posted March 10, 2014 Parents of kids. They enjoy the shows but don't give a shit about booking or even know what that is. They watch with their kids and take them to shows and enjoy themselves. But at the end of the day, it's just another TV show. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Redman Posted March 10, 2014 Report Share Posted March 10, 2014 Casual/non-smark adult fans absolutely still exist and in great numbers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted March 10, 2014 Report Share Posted March 10, 2014 I'm not saying they don't exist, but literally every single person I talk to about wrestling at this point - and I talk to quite a few - go out of there way to talk about things they read online about X, Y or Z. A lot of these people are really "casuals" in the sense that they only watch wrestling here and there, only tune in for certain stars or randomly, et. But to a man they all want to tell me what they read on Rajah or Wrestlezone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DR Ackermann Posted March 10, 2014 Report Share Posted March 10, 2014 I work with a grown man who knows absolutely no "insider" information. He watches WWE as a hobby and likes the good guys, hates the bad guys, etc. I asked him who his favorite wrestlers were a few months ago and he said Randy Savage all-time, but currently Goldust, Sin Cara and Rey Mysterio. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Sorrow Posted March 10, 2014 Report Share Posted March 10, 2014 Every time I've ever gone to a WWE house show in recent years if I tried to talk to someone about any "internet" stuff, I'd almost always get looks of, "Huh?". There'd always be a small group of people outside during the intermission who'd be going on about "INSIDERZ" stuff but they were dopier than the biggest "mark". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted March 10, 2014 Report Share Posted March 10, 2014 I haven't gone to a house show in almost ten years which wasn't overflowing with people talking about various things they read on the internet both in the line to get in, in the concourse before the event, and in the stands with me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Sorrow Posted March 10, 2014 Report Share Posted March 10, 2014 Well, I guess it's different in Colorado. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
victory Posted March 10, 2014 Report Share Posted March 10, 2014 Casual fans still exist, there just isn't as many as years ago it seems. Just because info is easier to access doesn't mean everybody has a desire to learn or know insider or history info. So they still exist, especially parents of kids like has been mentioned. I have a friend who brings his kids when I go with mine and he could care less about wrestling news sites. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted March 10, 2014 Report Share Posted March 10, 2014 I have a dream that one day the masses will discuss the most recent argument between jdw and Jerry von Kramer at WWE house shows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted March 10, 2014 Report Share Posted March 10, 2014 This is usually where Kris chimes in about the people he knows, and since it's Kris, I believe him but in general, I don't see it in my life. I'm not sure if it's a class thing or what. Almost everyone I deal with is middle class or higher and even then not many are super lower middle class. Everyone I know who followed in college were tuned into things and that was back in 99-00 or so. All the people I know from high school still into it have podcasts or whatever. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cross Face Chicken Wing Posted March 10, 2014 Report Share Posted March 10, 2014 Sure, there are more "smart" fans than 10-20 years ago -- Google anything wrestling-related and the top results are going to lead you to a website that rips off Meltzer or to some other insidery type of site. But very few people really dig into the smart stuff or care all that much about it. Of the 15 or so adults that I know who still watch wrestling, I would maybe consider one "smart." Any time wrestling comes up in casual conversations with people who occasionally watch, they have no idea about most behind-the-scenes stuff and they don't give a shit. When I went to Raw a year or so ago, I didn't hear a single person talking in a way that would make them "smart." Ditto for at the bar before and after the show. Yes, all of these people probably visit some type of smart or insidery type of website on a fairly regular basis, but that's unavoidable in this day and age. I don't think knowing that CM Punk walked out of WWE or Hulk Hogan is nearing a return to Raw makes you "smart." Perhaps it's time to up the standards for what is considered a "smart" fan. If spending a few seconds on a smart website every couple of days makes you a smart fan in the eyes of Disco and others, then yes, we need to change the definition of what makes a smart fan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidebottom Posted March 10, 2014 Report Share Posted March 10, 2014 I disagree with Disco. I've been to many, many independent wrestling shows in my time, as well as mainnstream shows (WCW, WWE, NOAH) and I have seen the following, in no particular order: Old men cheering the good guys and booing the bad guys. Kids doing the same obviously. Smart wankers. Parents cheering along with their kids. Blokes in their twenties blatantly dragging their girlfriends to a wrestling show sitting in silence and watching like a film. Basically, all sorts... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted March 10, 2014 Report Share Posted March 10, 2014 There are also Former Fans. I'm sure there were a lot of people during Disco's "prime" who looked at Disco, WCW at the time and the WWF and thought they were all shit compared to the stuff they watched back when they were regulars. Or they just moved away to other things to entertain themselves, or other things in life, etc. In fact, the largest group of Fans in the country are likely Former Fans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted March 10, 2014 Report Share Posted March 10, 2014 I totally am a Former Fan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted March 10, 2014 Report Share Posted March 10, 2014 Former fans scour old WCW and post about it on message boards? You're not a former fan, you're just a fan of former product. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tim Posted March 10, 2014 Report Share Posted March 10, 2014 I haven't gone to a house show in almost ten years which wasn't overflowing with people talking about various things they read on the internet both in the line to get in, in the concourse before the event, and in the stands with me. I think this opens up a new line of confusion. "Everyone" reads news from the sheets online but does that mean everyone is in any degree a "smart fan" or hardcore? In 1998 if you were reading that stuff chances are you were or soon would be an inside/hardcore fan. Probably not the case anymore. As much as this has to do with the difference in how people now interact with pro wrestling I think there's a difference in how people interact with the internet. In a sense I think it's hard for someone who started using the internet in the 90s or even very early 2000s to really understand how someone who started actively using the internet closer to the mid/later 2000s does so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anarchistxx Posted March 10, 2014 Report Share Posted March 10, 2014 There are vast differentiations between groups of 'smart' fans now. In 2004, most smart fans agreed; Kenta Kobashi was amazing, Gene Snitsky was terrible. You would get the occasional argument about someone like Kurt Angle by a contrarian, or an argument about whether CZW type feds were worthwhile, but overall most smarks agreed on things. Nowadays there are numerous types of smark - the ones who believe John Cena sucks and the Attitude Era is the pinnacle of wrestling have nothing on common with people on here, for instance. Or there are those who worship Davey Richards and Kota Ibushi, and others who think that type of guy is ruining wrestling and love watching Memphis. The fans I know in real life are certainly 'smart fans' in that they read the backstage news, but they aren't 'smart' to the extent of people on here; they don't really know who Dave Meltzer is or have any interest/knowledge of 90s AJPW. If you wanted to be reductionist and simplistic, you could argue for two types of fan, but really there are a lot more. Every fan is an 'internet wrestling fan' now, as oppose to 2001 when it was still a sort of minority. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted March 10, 2014 Report Share Posted March 10, 2014 I think only a small % of "smart fans" give two shits about Kobashi or anyone in Japan. There have always been more smart fans who only care about the WWF/WWE, WCW or ECW/TNA. For any of us who were on the Usenet or old services like AOL and Prodigy, those of us who like Kenta Kobashi were a tiny minority. One might try to say that the people who posted to rec.sport.pro-wrestling weren't all Smart Fans... but they all were. They all knew it was fake, they all talked about booking on some level, etc. Not saying they were all involved in great conversation, but they were all hardcore smart fans on some level. Even the wave of newbies who popped up after AOL came out with unlimited minutes and the internet blew up. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anarchistxx Posted March 11, 2014 Report Share Posted March 11, 2014 I think only a small % of "smart fans" give two shits about Kobashi or anyone in Japan. There have always been more smart fans who only care about the WWF/WWE, WCW or ECW/TNA. For any of us who were on the Usenet or old services like AOL and Prodigy, those of us who like Kenta Kobashi were a tiny minority. True. But most people who followed, say, ROH, would at least know who Kobashi was, and they numbered many thousands judging on DVD sales. Even though they might not have been buying DVDs of All Japan off Dan Ginetty, they were still aware of things like 6/3/94. I would say a greater percentage of smart fans then were knowledgeable about puroresu, even despite the easy availability of stuff via YouTube now. You are right in that did get many boards like Wrestleview or just Geocities pages of people who read backstage news, knew it was all fake yet still didn't go outside the WWF/WCW bubble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted March 11, 2014 Report Share Posted March 11, 2014 I doubt a high % of ROH fans really know about 6/3/94. It never came up at any PWG show I went to, and I doubt the PWG and ROH fan base are all that different. Most smart fans in the US are fans of the WWF/WWE, WCW, ECW and/or TNA. Look at guys like SKeith. Despite being an idiot, he is a smart fan. He really isn't a big fan of New Japan, All Japan, etc. There are a thousand people like that for even 1 of us. Probably more. Youtube doesn't change that. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anarchistxx Posted March 11, 2014 Report Share Posted March 11, 2014 I doubt a high % of ROH fans really know about 6/3/94. It never came up at any PWG show I went to, and I doubt the PWG and ROH fan base are all that different. So why did Joe/Kobshi draw such a big ROH crowd and become one of their biggest DVD sellers? Why was the crowd going ape shit over Kobashi being there before the match had even started? And that was only people who could get to New York. There was a definite crossover between people who liked ROH and people who knew about puroresu. I would estimate (based on ROH message boards and the UK shows I was at) that at least 90% of ROH fans had heard of Kobashi, and maybe 40% had seen a match of his if not more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Sorrow Posted March 11, 2014 Report Share Posted March 11, 2014 I was at Joe/ Kobashi and it's not like it was at MSG. Sure, it was sold out but It was in a small hotel ballroom. It was huge amongst ROH fans. And ROH fans represented a small fraction of overall wrestling fandom. And the idea that "everyone" goes online to read about wrestling is just not true. I'd bet the farm that if you polled an average WWE house show crowd only the smallest of percentage would even know what a Meltzer is, and if they do go online, it's probably to WWE.com. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Ewiak Posted March 11, 2014 Report Share Posted March 11, 2014 Sure, everybody is going on the Internet to get 'news' about wrestling, just like everybody goes on the Internet to find 'news' about movies, celebs, or sports. But, they're going to TMZ, googling 'Batman vs. Superman' and reading whatever crap floats to the top, and ESPN, not say, Baseball Prospectus nor The AV Club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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