MFoy Posted March 20, 2014 Report Share Posted March 20, 2014 Has anyone noticed that the major US promotions have completely gotten away from having feuds with any degree of intensity and emotion if those feuds aren't positioned as one of the top two matches on a PPV card? If you look at the history of wrestling in the US, an intense bloodfeud could occur in both the midcard and in the main event. I can think of plenty of examples of this but one that comes to mind is the Dustin Rhodes vs. Studd Stable feud in WCW. Those were hot, intense matches but were never positioned as anything more than the 4th most hyped match on a given PPV event (until it main evented Fall Brawl). WCW (pre-Hogan) was much better at doing this than the WWF ever was, but even the Mankind vs. Hunter Hearst Helmsley matches from 1997, while not spectacular, were allowed to be more violent and noteworthy than your typical undercard fare. When was the last time WWE had anything like this? Maybe Foley vs. Edge (which was 4th or 5th from the top) at Wrestlemania 22. I don't follow TNA particularly closely anymore but I don't think they do much of this either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted March 20, 2014 Report Share Posted March 20, 2014 I guess Shield vs Wyatts was second from the top at Elimination Chamber, but still, I liked that they were treating the non-main event match as such a big deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blazer Posted March 20, 2014 Report Share Posted March 20, 2014 Regal vs. Fit Finley WCW circa '95 or early '96. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodhelmet Posted March 20, 2014 Report Share Posted March 20, 2014 The Rhodes vs. Shield last year when the Rhodes had to win in order to keep their jobs and then had to retain was pretty good while it lasted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteF3 Posted March 20, 2014 Report Share Posted March 20, 2014 I was going to say, Shields/Rhodes Family tended to resemble that remark. As far as post-MNW stuff goes, it's hard to top Val vs. Rikishi in 2000. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russellmania Posted March 20, 2014 Report Share Posted March 20, 2014 i've mentioned this here recently and it's a huge problem with modern WWE. Think about a lot of the biggest stars they've produced over the years and how many of those guys got over from having awesome mid-card feuds. Austin, Rock, Michaels, HHH and probably many more that I can't think of off the top of my head. They never really seem willing to commit to anything for a lot of the midcard guys...they'll often give them a gimmick or a push and then abandon it within a month, and even during that few weeks of pushing them they don't really pair them up with anyone so they're stuck trying to get over on their own without any real direction or heat. I mean think about how much depth they have up and down the roster and how many guys they're doing absolutely nothing with when they could at the very least pair some of them up and let them build a feud out of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Redman Posted March 20, 2014 Report Share Posted March 20, 2014 Depending on if you want to say it counts or was too 'main event', Eddie vs Rey in 2005. That was a midcard feud that actually drove business for a while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfman Posted March 20, 2014 Report Share Posted March 20, 2014 I am not of his but Sheamus vs Christian has turned into a intense feud right now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timbo Slice Posted March 20, 2014 Report Share Posted March 20, 2014 Benoit/Sullivan was pretty damn crazy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIG Posted March 20, 2014 Report Share Posted March 20, 2014 I liked the little malenko/rey jr cruiserweight fued leading up to their match at havoc. Added some heat that was missing from the division. And i second the Regal/Finley feud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Redman Posted March 20, 2014 Report Share Posted March 20, 2014 I am not of his but Sheamus vs Christian has turned into a intense feud right now I think this is the opposite. Sheamus/Christian is basically a textbook example of a modern 'nothing feud'. Guys wrestle on one TV show, re-match for no reason on the next show, then have to have a rubber match on the next show, and etc. all for no apparent reason that anyone could care about. Sheamus being a stiff fucker in the ring and them killing each other with kendo sticks doesn't mean the feud itself is intense or interesting. There's nothing to the feud, it isn't about anything other than 'we have to keep wrestling each other for a few weeks'. Which is the problem the OP is talking about. The main event or top two main event feuds have direction, they have long promos and angles setting them up, they have music videos, and they usually don't have to wrestle each other three times on TV before they get to the 'real' match. On the undercard it's basically 'they beat the champs in a non-title match to get this shot' or 'we have to keep wrestling each other for a few weeks', and all you really get to do to build your match is wrestle the guy a few times before the PPV. I'm trying to think of the last midcard feud to get proper epic feud treatment. Throwing out Mania cards because they seem to have like four main events. I'm sure there are more recent examples, but MVP vs Matt Hardy in 2007 is the first thing to mind, which isn't good. Oh there's also Rey vs Punk in 2010. Can't really think of anything else off the top of my head. Shield vs Bryan and co. last year maybe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMJ Posted March 20, 2014 Report Share Posted March 20, 2014 Yeah. The Sheamus/Christian feud is a great example of terrible booking. Let's take two guys and have them show their stuff in a trio of good matches...but let's not give the audience any reason at all to care who wins or offer any explanation to why they keep getting booked against eachother. Had this been over the affection of a Diva, or a future title shot, or to prove to an Authority that they should be getting some opportunity at Mania, or because one screwed the other one out of a title, then you'd have had something that *might* have even been worthy of a Mania showcase...but they didn't bother to do ANY of those things. The Titus/Darren Young program had better build. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russellmania Posted March 20, 2014 Report Share Posted March 20, 2014 Yeah. The Sheamus/Christian feud is a great example of terrible booking. Let's take two guys and have them show their stuff in a trio of good matches...but let's not give the audience any reason at all to care who wins or offer any explanation to why they keep getting booked against eachother. Had this been over the affection of a Diva, or a future title shot, or to prove to an Authority that they should be getting some opportunity at Mania, or because one screwed the other one out of a title, then you'd have had something that *might* have even been worthy of a Mania showcase...but they didn't bother to do ANY of those things. The Titus/Darren Young program had better build. And, Titus/Darren Young is a perfect example of how they don't give a shit about midcard feuds any more. They gave them a program to work with actual heat between them, let them do a PPV match and then just kind of dropped it. As for somewhat recent examples of successful midcard feuds (ie, at least one of the guys involved was elevated by it), the Bryan/Kane Team Hell No/Anger management stuff counts I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Sorrow Posted March 20, 2014 Report Share Posted March 20, 2014 The Christian/ Shaemus fued is based on Christian being jealous that his comeback from injury was overshadowed by Shaemus' comeback from injury. He felt forgotten and disrespected and took it out on Sheamus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted March 20, 2014 Report Share Posted March 20, 2014 Has that been stated explicitly and repeatedly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MFoy Posted March 20, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 20, 2014 Has that been stated explicitly and repeatedly? And more than that, have either gotten to do any serious promos about that fact? If so, have those promos ever been replayed or emphasized? Have there been any heavy angles relating to them? Even if there is an angle attached to the matches, they don't focus on it enough to make it mean anything, so the crowd doesn't care and the intensity doesn't carry over to the matches themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Sorrow Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 Christian said it during an interview, granted they haven't repeated it or pushed it hard, but that IS the reason he turned on Sheamus, mixed with the mis timed brogue kick and Christian playing up the "desperate vet who knows this is his last run". I agree they haven't promoted it strongly but all these reasons have been talked about on TV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidebottom Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 Matt hardy vs Jeff Hardy in 2009 was an intense midcard feud which spawned some memorable and heated moments and a couple of great matches. Matt hardy and MVP from the previous year was also memorable in terms of having some material to work with which was explained and established on television. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cm funk Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 Christian said it during an interview, granted they haven't repeated it or pushed it hard, but that IS the reason he turned on Sheamus, mixed with the mis timed brogue kick and Christian playing up the "desperate vet who knows this is his last run". I agree they haven't promoted it strongly but all these reasons have been talked about on TV. Yeah. Sometimes I wonder if people actually pay attention to WWE tv or really just skim most of it over, because complaints about how the Christian-Sheamus feud is horribly booked don't ring true with me at all. They aren't "wrestling for no reason". I think the feud has been very well booked, step by step, and they've been having excellent matches. I've seen complaints to the tune of "Sheamus wins every match"....well, YEAH, which is why Christian keeps attacking and cheapshotting him and getting progressively angrier and angrier. When Christian DOES finally win he's going to do it in the shitheeliest way possible and brag about it endlessly. Which will be great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cm funk Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 Rikishi-Val Venis in 2000 was a pretty heated mid-card feud that was booked like it mattered Jericho always had interesting mid-card angles and feuds. I know a lot of people complained about his station circa 02-05 as a glorified midcarder, but to me that was a great spot for him to be in. The Jericho/Christian tag team leading into the love triangle deal with Trish wasn't "main event" but it got as much time on RAW as anything and was far and away better and treated more important than just about anything on the show. In those years Jericho got as much tv time as anyone, and as noted before on this board, the true indicator of a push in WWE is tv time. That's why I never got concerned with the booking of Daniel Bryan, because week in and week out he's on tv as much as anyone, and treated like a guy who matters. Even more recently with Jericho, JeriShow were the MVPs of RAW for quite some time, always in main event TV matches, always interacting with the top stars and the celebrity guest hosts, totally elevated the tag belts which were practically worthless before they won them. It worked so well that they immediately copied it with "ShowMiz" to give Miz a rub I think they've been kind of doing the "intense midcard feud" stuff with the tag titles. The Shield were and are a huge focus, but they are essentially the upper midcard workhorses. The angle with the Rhodes Bros. was great and intense, but it was treated as a semi-main event, not THE main event. They've put a lot of focus and push behind the Usos and their feud with the Outlaws, and again, it's solidly in the mid-card. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Redman Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 Christian said it during an interview, granted they haven't repeated it or pushed it hard, but that IS the reason he turned on Sheamus, mixed with the mis timed brogue kick and Christian playing up the "desperate vet who knows this is his last run". I agree they haven't promoted it strongly but all these reasons have been talked about on TV. Yeah. Sometimes I wonder if people actually pay attention to WWE tv or really just skim most of it over, because complaints about how the Christian-Sheamus feud is horribly booked don't ring true with me at all. They aren't "wrestling for no reason". I think the feud has been very well booked, step by step, and they've been having excellent matches. I've seen complaints to the tune of "Sheamus wins every match"....well, YEAH, which is why Christian keeps attacking and cheapshotting him and getting progressively angrier and angrier. When Christian DOES finally win he's going to do it in the shitheeliest way possible and brag about it endlessly. Which will be great. I pay perfect attention to WWE. Just because there's ostensibly a reason doesn't mean it's a good one. I said this for no apparent reason that anyone could care about specifically. Christian is mad that Sheamus stole his spotlight or accidentally kicked him? OK, but nobody in the crowd actually gives a shit about any of those things. Why would they? What does it matter? What consequences arise from those things? It's all surface-level bullshit. Christian has got a little promo time to do his heel turn but it's the same "I'm desperate" promo every time that tells me nothing. Sheamus doesn't talk much, and when he does it's the same Sheamus promo. And I'm not dissing these guys' ability to cut a promo, don't get me wrong. It's the writing that lets them down, because they have nothing to talk about. They have a match, Sheamus wins. Christian whines, Sheamus jokes. They have another match next show, Sheamus wins. Christian whines, Sheamus jokes. They have another match on the next show, Sheamus wins. Christian whines, Sheamus jokes. And none of the results matter AT ALL. It isn't even a problem that Sheamus wins all the time, I don't give a shit, but it really doesn't matter if he does. If he split the results with Christian, it wouldn't make a single bit of difference, because nobody is going to care who wins random match #3 between them when there were no consequences or interesting developments from the first two. I'm sure Christian is going to get a cheap win over Sheamus soon. I'm just not sure why it's going to matter or why I'm supposed to care, or if anyone will besides you. And look. I am a GIGANTIC modern WWE apologist. I love the shit out of it, I have mastered the ability to enjoy good matches in a vacuum, and I enjoy the angles when they're done well. I've enjoyed the Christian/Sheamus matches in a vacuum, but this is not an example of a well booked feud. It's them finding stuff to say on commentary about a feud that consists of guys wrestling on TV over and over and over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cm funk Posted March 22, 2014 Report Share Posted March 22, 2014 Well, I really enjoy the Sheamus-Christian feud, so I'm at least one person. To each his own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cm funk Posted March 22, 2014 Report Share Posted March 22, 2014 "They have a match, Sheamus wins. Christian whines, Sheamus jokes. They have another match next show, Sheamus wins. Christian whines, Sheamus jokes. They have another match on the next show, Sheamus wins. Christian whines, Sheamus jokes. And none of the results matter AT ALL. It isn't even a problem that Sheamus wins all the time, I don't give a shit, but it really doesn't matter if he does. If he split the results with Christian, it wouldn't make a single bit of difference, because nobody is going to care who wins random match #3 between them when there were no consequences or interesting developments from the first two." see, this is what I'm talking about. They've both been positioned as former world champions coming back from a long layoff, both wanting to get back to that level, and it's led to a rivalry. It's a very natural story, and it all started when both of them qualified for the Elimination Chamber. They got paired in a tag match, and a friendly rivalry started, which evolved into a not so friendly rivalry. This isn't an inconsequential feud at all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slackermillionaire Posted March 25, 2014 Report Share Posted March 25, 2014 I really think one of the biggest reason for the lack of emphasis on undercard feuds is the commentary team. When Sheamus and Christian are having a match on Raw, do the team actual tell the story of the build? Do they tell the story of the match? No, they spend the whole match bickering with one another until the go home sequence. I get this is what is expected by them from the company brass but how can the fans be interested in a feud if the commentary cant wain an interested for a less than 10 minute match on a 3 hour show? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(BP) Posted March 25, 2014 Report Share Posted March 25, 2014 The Sheamus/Christian feud isn't a good example because the storyline itself could be compelling with two guys the audience cared about. Christian is always just biding time between injuries, and Sheamus has been in a protected-but-irrelevant spot for a year and a half. The crowd's been conditioned to think that neither guy matters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.