SummerSlam '91 Payoffs

[C.S.]

This is a FASCINATING article! Credit to brawler2711 from Wrestling Classics for finding it and posting about it.

 

http://whatculture.com/wwe/wwe-10-surprising-revelations-from-the-1991-summerslam-payroll-sheet.php

 

There's too much to get into here, and I'd hate to spoil any of it. I'll just say, while some of the figures make sense, others seem incredibly arbitrary.

 

Another WC poster, Matt Farmer, said the article was wrong about what "draw" meant. According to him, it wasn't a bonus at all - it was a cash advance from the overall paycheck in the days before ATMs. That changes some of the "facts" in the piece, but it's still a great read regardless.

[Matt Farmer]

That's correct, all offices allowed the boys to take draws. Which was an advance against their paycheck.

 

There's the famous story of Flair taking the biggest draw in company history while they were in England for Summer Slam. Arnold Skalaand was the agent he took it from.

 

Back in the day, when you went to get paid one of the agents or random oldtimers were usually playing cards with a brief case with cash in it. The first time I worked for them I was paid by Killer Kowalski & Luke Williams was playing cards with him. As I got paid a few of the contract guys were there to get draws, so they could pay their rental car or hotel or whatever. Usually it was a couple hundred bucks. And they would write down the amount and it would get subtracted from their check.

 

I was there just to do jobs, so we could hand in expenses since we were on the road with them for three days. They would pay your gas (we would work the receipts and get a little extra), and would cover your hotel if you had a receipt. If the town was off the beaten path they would cover your airfare.

 

That brief case probably had $20,000 to $30,000 dollars in it.

[MikeCampbell]

I thought the idea of taking a draw was pretty well known, thanks to Mick giving a full explanation of it in Have A Nice Day. Along with the story of him thinking that Bronco Lubich wanted him to draw him a picture.

[Matt Farmer]

Another thing he mentioned was a group of wrestlers there backstage in case of a no show or whatever. A few of them like Jake and Undertaker were there to film vignettes. And it was common on big ppv cards to have underneath pay for guys who were on the road but not booked for the PPV. For instance it listed Duggan and Snuka, I don't recall why they weren't booked, they may have been at home, or hurt or on the road just not booked for the PPV. It was common to give those guys undercard paydays (remember PPV checks take 3 months to get) as a way of not punishing them for missing it.

 

He made a big deal about the Nasty Boys making more than Bret Hart, when in fact they were paid the same $17,500. Knobbs & Saggs just took a $200 draw so they could tear it up at the bar!

 

He was also confused with referee pay, well as most of you know referees in most cases have other duties on the road. Some of the younger refs are setting up the ring and doing other labor tasks. Some like Hebner had office duties, so their pay could reflect that. Plus the top refs, reffed the more important matches and often had more to do. I have heard of ref's getting bonused for taking a important bump too.

 

The author also made mention of the announcers and local talent. The announcers were usually paid a weekly salary, so they weren't bonused the same. And the locals if there were any, were paid cash. They weren't cops because that was filmed I believe the day before or that afternoon prior to the show.

[Matt D]

Do guys still get paid if they're not on a PPV?

[Bix]

He was also confused with referee pay, well as most of you know referees in most cases have other duties on the road. Some of the younger refs are setting up the ring and doing other labor tasks. Some like Hebner had office duties, so their pay could reflect that. Plus the top refs, reffed the more important matches and often had more to do. I have heard of ref's getting bonused for taking a important bump too.

Unless this is something that was different back then, the referees are independent contractor talent as referees and salaried employees with benefits as ring crew. The pay sheet should only reflect their referee pay then, shouldn't it?

[Matt Farmer]

Do guys still get paid if they're not on a PPV?

 

I don't think they are now (as in the last 15 years or so) because they have a guaranteed contract. Remember back then they were only paid if they were on the road. Those were undercard payoffs, which were small paydays because the boys were on the road with the crew but not on that show for whateve reason. They didn't want to punish people because they weren't on the show so they would give them something.

 

In a lot of promotions if someone was out hurt, the promoter would take say $50 out of the gate for every house show and set it aside for the injured wrestler. It sure wasn't what they would have made if on the road, but it was something. I kmow Bill Watts, Crockett, Owen, and McMahon would so this.

[Matt Farmer]

 

He was also confused with referee pay, well as most of you know referees in most cases have other duties on the road. Some of the younger refs are setting up the ring and doing other labor tasks. Some like Hebner had office duties, so their pay could reflect that. Plus the top refs, reffed the more important matches and often had more to do. I have heard of ref's getting bonused for taking a important bump too.

Unless this is something that was different back then, the referees are independent contractor talent as referees and salaried employees with benefits as ring crew. The pay sheet should only reflect their referee pay then, shouldn't it?

Yes but they were also bonused on big shows too, almost similar to how talent is paid today. Prior to that ref's were paid on the house just like the boys were.

[Bix]

 

Do guys still get paid if they're not on a PPV?

I don't think they are now (as in the last 15 years or so) because they have a guaranteed contract. Remember back then they were only paid if they were on the road. Those were undercard payoffs, which were small paydays because the boys were on the road with the crew but not on that show for whateve reason. They didn't want to punish people because they weren't on the show so they would give them something.

 

In a lot of promotions if someone was out hurt, the promoter would take say $50 out of the gate for every house show and set it aside for the injured wrestler. It sure wasn't what they would have made if on the road, but it was something. I kmow Bill Watts, Crockett, Owen, and McMahon would so this.

 

In JCP, each wrestler volunteered...I forget if it was $25 or $50...out of their weekly paycheck to go to the injured wrestler. They did this for Barry Darsow when he blew out his knee and Magnum TA after his accident for sure.

[mookeighana]

Background on this piece: Bix shared stuff from the UW lawsuit with me which included this payoff sheet. I put together some numbers and TOTALLY SCREWED UP THE DRAW CONCEPT. I knew what it meant but for some reason I calculated it like it was additive instead of an advance. I shared the number with my friend Wooly, the author of this piece, and suggested he put together an article that could be published at WhatCulture. So, blame me for the stupidness with suggesting the draws were to be added to the total instead of just cash advances. But, as others said, the real meat & potatoes is the sheet itself.

[(BP)]

I didn't see what was odd about Savage/Elizabeth getting paid the same as the main eventers. I presume the wedding was a selling point for the ppv. The article answered the first question that came to mind, which was how much were Taker/Jake paid.

[mookeighana]

Bix, the author Wooly and I discussed the payoff sheet in the latest wrestlenomics episode: http://indeedwrestling.podbean.com

[cm funk]

I didn't see what was odd about Savage/Elizabeth getting paid the same as the main eventers. I presume the wedding was a selling point for the ppv. The article answered the first question that came to mind, which was how much were Taker/Jake paid.

 

It was

 

[Guest The Jiz]

Who published or got access to this document, and how? As a historian, I'm always mindful of forgeries or dates that get messed up. The Max Moon part is one of those oddities that, to at least a good historian, would stand out as a possible fraud. My intuition is that the document is clearly real and came from a reliable source, but as methodology, it'd be comforting to know who actually published this.

 

One thing that stands out is the disparity between undercard numbers and the Dynamite Kid's book. Billington basically said he got $20,000 for his PPV appearances. That's interesting because it seemed like a flat rate that WWF gave to undercard guy. So either his memory is bad, he was lying (not likely), or he was just being general and didn't see the detail of the payoff as that important, OR the payoff structure changed at some point, maybe when the bubble started to burst in Fall 1989. Billington was only a big star from Fall 1985 to 1986. After that, his position would be something akin to Bulldog, Von Erich, and Steamboat in 1991, which is to say a popular figure booked as an undercard act and often placed in six-man tag fillers.

[Loss]

The WWF was more popular in 1985-1986 than it was in 1991.

[Guest The Jiz]

The WWF was more popular in 1985-1986 than it was in 1991.

 

Yes, but that can't be said for revenue. PPV was available in substantially more homes in 1991, at a higher price, than in 1987.

[mookeighana]

Who published or got access to this document, and how? As a historian, I'm always mindful of forgeries or dates that get messed up. The Max Moon part is one of those oddities that, to at least a good historian, would stand out as a possible fraud. My intuition is that the document is clearly real and came from a reliable source, but as methodology, it'd be comforting to know who actually published this.

 

One thing that stands out is the disparity between undercard numbers and the Dynamite Kid's book. Billington basically said he got $20,000 for his PPV appearances. That's interesting because it seemed like a flat rate that WWF gave to undercard guy. So either his memory is bad, he was lying (not likely), or he was just being general and didn't see the detail of the payoff as that important, OR the payoff structure changed at some point, maybe when the bubble started to burst in Fall 1989. Billington was only a big star from Fall 1985 to 1986. After that, his position would be something akin to Bulldog, Von Erich, and Steamboat in 1991, which is to say a popular figure booked as an undercard act and often placed in six-man tag fillers.

 

It's from the Ultimate Warrior lawsuit. It was filed as an exhibit. The documents came from the PACER system - the court records.

 

It was generated after 1991, probably 1992 or later because refer to guys like Max Moon who wasn't around in 1991. You'll notice some guys are marked with a Z -- those are guys who weren't in the company anymore when the list was generated. This is from WWE's internal system. Hellwig demanded proof that he was being paid same as Hogan.

 

There's no transcription errors - at least between WWE's own system and being on paper.

 

Here's the sheets: http://imgur.com/a/HVO0C (images)

Here's the PDF: https://sites.google.com/site/chrisharrington/mookieghana-prowrestlingstatistics/summerslam1991/summerslam_1991.pdf?attredirects=0

[ohtani's jacket]

Does anyone know if the Network is airing footage of Savage vs. Elizabeth?

[Guest The Jiz]

 

Who published or got access to this document, and how? As a historian, I'm always mindful of forgeries or dates that get messed up. The Max Moon part is one of those oddities that, to at least a good historian, would stand out as a possible fraud. My intuition is that the document is clearly real and came from a reliable source, but as methodology, it'd be comforting to know who actually published this.

 

One thing that stands out is the disparity between undercard numbers and the Dynamite Kid's book. Billington basically said he got $20,000 for his PPV appearances. That's interesting because it seemed like a flat rate that WWF gave to undercard guy. So either his memory is bad, he was lying (not likely), or he was just being general and didn't see the detail of the payoff as that important, OR the payoff structure changed at some point, maybe when the bubble started to burst in Fall 1989. Billington was only a big star from Fall 1985 to 1986. After that, his position would be something akin to Bulldog, Von Erich, and Steamboat in 1991, which is to say a popular figure booked as an undercard act and often placed in six-man tag fillers.

 

It's from the Ultimate Warrior lawsuit. It was filed as an exhibit. The documents came from the PACER system - the court records.

 

It was generated after 1991, probably 1992 or later because refer to guys like Max Moon who wasn't around in 1991. You'll notice some guys are marked with a Z -- those are guys who weren't in the company anymore when the list was generated. This is from WWE's internal system. Hellwig demanded proof that he was being paid same as Hogan.

 

There's no transcription errors - at least between WWE's own system and being on paper.

 

Here's the sheets: http://imgur.com/a/HVO0C (images)

Here's the PDF: https://sites.google.com/site/chrisharrington/mookieghana-prowrestlingstatistics/summerslam1991/summerslam_1991.pdf?attredirects=0

 

 

Awesome! Thanks

[goodhelmet]

Does anyone know if the Network is airing footage of Savage vs. Elizabeth?

 

Are you looking for their famous cage match at MSG or the hard to find "I Quit" Match from the Forum?

 

If you are talking about the reception with Jake and Taker, it isn't on the network version.

[ohtani's jacket]

I'm looking for:

 

*MARRIAGE*

Savage vs. Elizabeth

 

from the payroll.

 

Could be a lost classic, or a Freudian slip.

[El-P]

*MARRIAGE*

Savage vs. Elizabeth

 

from the payroll.

 

Could be a lost classic, or a Freudian slip.

 

Ah ah. Didn't notice it at first. Amazing indeed.

[Loss]

Yeah, the reception is not on the pay-per-view proper.

[Matt Farmer]

Who published or got access to this document, and how? As a historian, I'm always mindful of forgeries or dates that get messed up. The Max Moon part is one of those oddities that, to at least a good historian, would stand out as a possible fraud. My intuition is that the document is clearly real and came from a reliable source, but as methodology, it'd be comforting to know who actually published this.

 

One thing that stands out is the disparity between undercard numbers and the Dynamite Kid's book. Billington basically said he got $20,000 for his PPV appearances. That's interesting because it seemed like a flat rate that WWF gave to undercard guy. So either his memory is bad, he was lying (not likely), or he was just being general and didn't see the detail of the payoff as that important, OR the payoff structure changed at some point, maybe when the bubble started to burst in Fall 1989. Billington was only a big star from Fall 1985 to 1986. After that, his position would be something akin to Bulldog, Von Erich, and Steamboat in 1991, which is to say a popular figure booked as an undercard act and often placed in six-man tag fillers.

Also in wrestling talk, the boys will often continue to call a wrestler his gimmick name even if they no longer use it. Even the office would continue the practice privately.

 

As for the Bulldogs, I would bet they were paid on a higher percentage (by Vince) because they were in demand and could get work elsewhere. Also don't be so confident that the numbers he put in his book are completely accurate. He is a wrestler and rounding up is common.

[Dooley]

 

Who published or got access to this document, and how? As a historian, I'm always mindful of forgeries or dates that get messed up. The Max Moon part is one of those oddities that, to at least a good historian, would stand out as a possible fraud. My intuition is that the document is clearly real and came from a reliable source, but as methodology, it'd be comforting to know who actually published this.

 

One thing that stands out is the disparity between undercard numbers and the Dynamite Kid's book. Billington basically said he got $20,000 for his PPV appearances. That's interesting because it seemed like a flat rate that WWF gave to undercard guy. So either his memory is bad, he was lying (not likely), or he was just being general and didn't see the detail of the payoff as that important, OR the payoff structure changed at some point, maybe when the bubble started to burst in Fall 1989. Billington was only a big star from Fall 1985 to 1986. After that, his position would be something akin to Bulldog, Von Erich, and Steamboat in 1991, which is to say a popular figure booked as an undercard act and often placed in six-man tag fillers.

Also in wrestling talk, the boys will often continue to call a wrestler his gimmick name even if they no longer use it. Even the office would continue the practice privately.

 

As for the Bulldogs, I would bet they were paid on a higher percentage (by Vince) because they were in demand and could get work elsewhere. Also don't be so confident that the numbers he put in his book are completely accurate. He is a wrestler and rounding up is common.

 

 

Also, the event DK was referring to was WM3, wasn't it? One would think payoffs would have been on the large side for a show that did that gate and PPV business.