2014 Wrestling Observer Hall of Fame thread

[shakla]

 

 

Has Rick Martel ever been on the ballot or Greg Valentine?

 

Sorry to sound like a broken record, but this thread/post (http://wrestlingclassics.com/cgi-bin/.ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=7;t=000499;p=0) lists everyone who has been on the ballot and fell off. So if the wrestler is not on this list, nor is currently on the ballot or has been elected, they have never been on the ballot (not counting 1996 charter members and some historical inductees).

 

Never saw that link before.

 

So, neither have ever been on the ballot. That is crazy to me. Neither are locks, but they are better picks than some on there.

 

 

No prob, I know I've posted it a few times and didn't want anyone to think I was flooding the thread.

 

On that note, I wonder if anyone could compile a chart of total voters throughout the years. See how many were around in the early days, I assume it was a much smaller voting pool.

[evilclown]

My ballot:

 

I FOLLOWED THE HISTORICAL PERFORMERS ERA CANDIDATES

Gene & Ole Anderson

Johnny "Mr. Wrestling II" Walker

I FOLLOWED THE MODERN PERFORMERS IN U.S/CANADA CANDIDATES

Ivan Koloff

Ken Patera

Rock & Roll Express (Ricky Morton & Robert Gibson)

I FOLLOWED WRESTLING IN JAPAN CANDIDATES

Volk Han

Minoru Suzuki

Kiyoshi Tamura

I FOLLOWED WRESTLING IN MEXICO CANDIDATES

Not Eligible/Abstain

I FOLLOWED WRESTLING IN EUROPE CANDIDATES

Not Eligible/Abstain

I FOLLOWED WRESTLING IN AUSTRALIA/PACIFIC ISLANDS/CARIBBEAN/AFRICA CANDIDATES

Not Eligible/Abstain

NON-WRESTLERS

Jerry Jarrett

Gorilla Monsoon

George Scott

[kjh]

Abstain from the historical performers era.

 

Modern performer in U.S./Canada:
Ivan Koloff
Dick Murdoch
Ken Patera
Rock & Roll Express (Ricky Morton & Robert Gibson)

Japan:
Gran Hamada

Mexico:
Cien Caras
Karloff Lagarde
El Signo & El Texano & Negro Navarro

Australia/Pacific Islands/Carribean/Africa:
Carlos Colon

Europe:
Jackie Pallo

Non-wrestlers:
Howard Finkel
Gary Hart
Jimmy Hart
Jerry Jarrett
Gene Okerlund

[JerryvonKramer]

Glad to see Ivan Koloff getting so many votes.

[Bix]

My ballot:

I FOLLOWED THE HISTORICAL PERFORMERS ERA CANDIDATES [Abstain]

I FOLLOWED THE MODERN PERFORMERS IN U.S/CANADA CANDIDATES

Junkyard Dog

Ivan Koloff

Dick Murdoch

Rock & Roll Express (Ricky Morton & Robert Gibson)

I FOLLOWED WRESTLING IN JAPAN CANDIDATES [Abstain]

I FOLLOWED WRESTLING IN MEXICO CANDIDATES

Brazo de Oro & Brazo de Plata & El Brazo

Cien Caras

Karloff Lagarde

El Signo & El Texano & Negro Navarro

I FOLLOWED WRESTLING IN EUROPE CANDIDATES [Abstain]

I FOLLOWED WRESTLING IN AUSTRALIA/PACIFIC ISLANDS/PUERTO RICO CANDIDATES

Carlos Colon

Mark Lewin

NON-WRESTLERS

Dave Brown

Jimmy Hart

Jerry Jarrett

Gene Okerlund

Don Owen

[Cox]

Does anybody here have links to other ballots that have been made public? I've decided I'm going to try to track ballots this year to see who tracks to get elected, and to see if the ballots that are made public can provide us with any significant sample to determine the electees prior to the vote. For an idea of what I'm trying to do, see the link below. I'm looking for as large of a sample as possible, so please share whatever ballots that are made public in this thread so I can track them.

 

FYI, based on the (admittedly) very, very small PWO sample size, currently tracking to make the WON HOF are Mr. Wrestling II, Junkyard Dog, Ivan Koloff, Ken Patera, the Rock 'n' Roll Express, Gran Hamada, Cien Caras, Los Misionarios, Jackie Pallo, Carlos Colon, Jimmy Hart, Jerry Jarrett, and Gene Okerlund. Granted...this is a tiny sample size, and in the case of Jackie Pallo, it's a sample size of one ballot, but I think it would be interesting to track the PWO ballots compared to the rest of the ballot just to see how it compares to the rest of the WON ballot once voting is announced.

 

http://www.baseballthinkfactory.org/newsstand/discussion/the_2013_hof_ballot_collecting_gizmo

[Matt D]

PWO will probably keep Patera on the ballot.

[tofu_chipmunk]

Does anybody here have links to other ballots that have been made public? I've decided I'm going to try to track ballots this year to see who tracks to get elected, and to see if the ballots that are made public can provide us with any significant sample to determine the electees prior to the vote. For an idea of what I'm trying to do, see the link below. I'm looking for as large of a sample as possible, so please share whatever ballots that are made public in this thread so I can track them.

 

FYI, based on the (admittedly) very, very small PWO sample size, currently tracking to make the WON HOF are Mr. Wrestling II, Junkyard Dog, Ivan Koloff, Ken Patera, the Rock 'n' Roll Express, Gran Hamada, Cien Caras, Los Misionarios, Jackie Pallo, Carlos Colon, Jimmy Hart, Jerry Jarrett, and Gene Okerlund. Granted...this is a tiny sample size, and in the case of Jackie Pallo, it's a sample size of one ballot, but I think it would be interesting to track the PWO ballots compared to the rest of the ballot just to see how it compares to the rest of the WON ballot once voting is announced.

 

http://www.baseballthinkfactory.org/newsstand/discussion/the_2013_hof_ballot_collecting_gizmo

 

A few are posted at Classics: http://wrestlingclassics.com/.ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=7;t=000556

[rovert]

Mark Madden's ballot (source http://www.wrestlezone.com/editorials/516249-wrestling-observer-hall-of-fame-ballot ):

Historical performers: The Assassins, Von Brauners w/Saul Weingeroff.

Modern performers: Ivan Koloff, Brock Lesnar.

Non-wrestlers: Jesse Ventura.

 

 

Bruce Mitchell's ballot or what he disclosed in the Torch this week:

 

Historical performers: The Assassins, Enrique Torres

Modern performers: Ivan Koloff, Brock Lesnar.

[Dylan Waco]

Blind Resume Time:

 

Positives:

 

- Solid Amateur Credentials

- Crossover MMA/Wrestling Star

- Held major titles in multiple major, national promotions.

- Was one half of the match widely credited with being the draw of one of the largest grossing PPV shows in history, if not the largest grossing (too lazy to look)

- Had a notable feud with major wrestling heel/authority figure, that was goofy in many ways, but critically acclaimed by many.

- Had a major push that directly coincided with a clear uptick in ratings for the promotion he was working in.

- This push was credited as the best aspect of the show he was working on by many, if not most, fans and critics.

 

Negatives:

 

- Despite a couple of major, sustained pushes, he never drew at the level you would hope.

- Generally speaking a poor mic worker, though when paired with a great mouthpiece his menacing look is more than enough to make him feel like a star.

- Has shown a poor commitment to wrestling, walking away and going to MMA, before coming back years later.

- When he came back to wrestling, he was immediately pushed into the main event scene, which may have contributed to backstage unrest, as well as some criticism from hardcore fans of the promotion who didn't like him cutting in line of young, homegrown stars who had emerged in his absence.

[Jimmy Redman]

 

Lashley right?

 

And as a general point about Brock's case, I agree.

 

[Jesse Ewiak]

I realize you don't like Lesnar as a HOFer Dylan (I wouldn't vote for him either), but that's a completely unfair comparison. Lesnar was an actual star and drew hundreds of thousands of buys multiple times for UFC. Lashley's on a second-rate promotion that's on the air because the media company owns the company.

[Dylan Waco]

I completely agree. My point was more to show how easy it is to make guys look better than they are if you dont present the details

[NintendoLogic]

If I can nitpick, I would say that classifying 2014 TNA as a major promotion is a bit of a stretch.

[kjh]

Dylan could have made the same point with Ken Shamrock and he was UFC's top star in the mid 1990s and drew a record buy rate and rating for his feud with Tito Ortiz in 2006.

[NintendoLogic]

Shamrock and Lashley having no prayer of getting in would seem to undercut the argument that HOF voters are a bunch of legitimacy marks.

[Dylan Waco]

Shamrock has never been on the ballot. Lashley is rightfully seen as a joke, but also has other "disadvantages"

[Alan4L]

My ballot!

 

I FOLLOWED THE MODERN PERFORMERS IN U.S/CANADA CANDIDATES

 

Edge - One of the top players in modern WWE for years. Respected a ton by his peers. Always a great performer both in-ring and character wise. Carried the Smackdown brand from 2007 to 2009 and gave it it’s own identity in a lot of ways. Delivered a great match in his one WrestleMania main event.

 

Ivan Koloff - His title win against Bruno is probably the high point as far as Hall Of Fame candidacy, but he backs it up with strong runs in other territories too. He was an in demand performer worldwide. Another guy who has garnered a lot of respect within the business.

 

Brock Lesnar - Proven himself to be a major draw with his UFC run. He was a great performer in his first WWE run, and is arguably even better now. When you look at the business as a whole in the last 12 years, he’s been one of the biggest players.

 

Dick Murdoch – The way his peers talk about him as a worker has to count for a lot. The fact that he was able to get over in so many places says a lot about him as a performer. He was a big star in pretty much every US territory of note, and was also a top guy in Japan for years. Extremely influential in the careers of first ballot HOF’ers like Ted Dibiase, Dusty Rhodes and Ric Flair.

 

Rock & Roll Express (Ricky Morton & Robert Gibson) – They tick the three boxes of drawing/performance/influence making them a well rounded candidate. When you look at how undeniably strong the influence was, you have to really consider them HOF’ers.

 

I FOLLOWED WRESTLING IN JAPAN CANDIDATES

 

Jun Akiyama – Was a part of some of the best wrestling matches in the world during the 90s. Then in the 2000s, he was probably the in-ring MVP of the decade in Japan. Just an incredible worker. One of the best. As a draw, he main evented several sold out Budokan Hall shows (some of which were as GHC Champion) and he main evented a very successful Tokyo Dome show in 2004. Was frequently brought in by other promotions as someone to take part in “dream matches” for big shows or tournaments like the G1 (2003 where he got to the finals) or Champion Carnival (2011).

 

Gran Hamada – I would say he is the founding father of the "Japanese Lucha" style. Without him there would be no Michinoku Pro, Toryumon, Dragon Gate or even Chikara. He was key in getting the careers of Ultimo Dragon, Dick Togo, Jado, Gedo and many others off the ground. Definitely one of the guys who broke the mould as far as acceptable wrestler size. Incredible worker in his youth, and well into his 40s and even 50s. He was also a big star in Mexico, main eventing many big shows.

 

Yuji Nagata - To me, he has been consistently one of the best workers in the world since the late 90s. His longevity has been astounding. He’s been an integral part in training and development for New Japan and is the leader by example for all of the great young wrestlers coming through the famed dojo. His title run in 2002 saw him put in a tough spot with all the crazy Inoki MMA stuff going on, but his efforts never dropped and he still produced several fantastic title bouts against a wide range of opponents. His 2007 run in the title picture is super underrated as far as establishing Tanahashi, and their April bout was one of the best IWGP Heavyweight Title matches ever.

 

Mike & Ben Sharpe - Trailblazers as far as gaijins in Japan. If they weren’t such a success, then who knows if we would have seen the likes of the Funks, Hansen and Brody as major gaijin stars all those years later.

 

 

I FOLLOWED WRESTLING IN AUSTRALIA/PACIFIC ISLANDS/CARIBBEAN/AFRICA CANDIDATES

 

Carlos Colon - He is Puerto Rico wrestling. Established the territory (and really in a lot of ways it was more than just another territory) and was the main star there for decades having legendary matches and feuds with the likes of Stan Hansen and Abdullah The Butcher.

 

 

NON-WRESTLERS

 

Jim Crockett Sr. – Was a key figure in building the Carolinas as a wrestling hotbed. He laid the groundwork for something that’s very special to a lot of people, and something which produced so many all time great wrestlers. Did a lot to establish tag team wrestling.

 

Jimmy Hart – Right there with Jerry Lawler and Lance Russell when it comes to carrying Memphis on screen. One of the best heel managers ever. Deserves recognition alongside the managers who are already in.

 

Gorilla Monsoon – Moreso than Vince McMahon, I feel he was the voice of the late 80s WWF boom period. He was an awesome TV personality that I think connected really well with the kids who were watching WWF at the time. Wrestling at that time was larger than life to children and having a larger than life host was benefical.

Gene Okerlund – Defined a role, and nobody has come close to matching his work in that role since. Achieved a huge level of fame through wrestling, which in this category I feel is a plus.

 

Jesse Ventura – Similar to Monsoon with regard to the larger than life image. Perfected the heel colour role in the late 80s.

 

 

*Please note that I am abstaining from any of the categories not mentioned above*

 

For future consideration:

 

CIMA – I would like to see CIMA on the ballot. I feel he’s been one of the most entertaining performers in the world for 14 years. Perhaps more importantly, he has been the face and leader of what’s turned into a very sustainable wrestling product. Hugely influential.

 

Yoshiaki Fujiwara – I’m not sure whether or not I would vote for him, but I’d like to see him in the discussion next year. He would be an interesting candidate.

[kjh]

Shamrock has never been on the ballot. Lashley is rightfully seen as a joke, but also has other "disadvantages"

 

Actually Shamrock was going to be on the ballot in 2005, but was taken off the ballot with Don Frye (who almost got in the prior year) when Dave Meltzer decided to start an MMA HOF, which lasted one year, before someone asked him to knock it off.

[GSR]

 

 

Shamrock has never been on the ballot. Lashley is rightfully seen as a joke, but also has other "disadvantages"

Actually Shamrock was going to be on the ballot in 2005, but was taken off the ballot with Don Frye (who almost got in the prior year) when Dave Meltzer decided to start an MMA HOF, which lasted one year, before someone asked him to knock it off.

What's the story with this? I remember Meltzer doing his MMA Hall of Fame and about four guys got elected one year. Dave started on doing the write ups and bios, did one or two of them and it was never mentioned again. He didn't even finish on those who got elected.

[shakla]

Sorry to bring the "less than 10%" link up again, but Shamrock was on the ballot in the early days and fell off in 2000. Not sure if he was added that year or in 98/99. (http://wrestlingclassics.com/cgi-bin/.ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=7;t=000499;p=0)

[BillThompson]

A pro wrestling HoF that takes into account a guys run in mixed martial arts makes it even harder to ever take the thing seriously.

[kjh]

 

 

Shamrock has never been on the ballot. Lashley is rightfully seen as a joke, but also has other "disadvantages"

Actually Shamrock was going to be on the ballot in 2005, but was taken off the ballot with Don Frye (who almost got in the prior year) when Dave Meltzer decided to start an MMA HOF, which lasted one year, before someone asked him to knock it off.

What's the story with this? I remember Meltzer doing his MMA Hall of Fame and about four guys got elected one year. Dave started on doing the write ups and bios, did one or two of them and it was never mentioned again. He didn't even finish on those who got elected.

 

 

Apparently, he closed down his MMA HOF because someone else was going to set one up, but it's strange that he didn't reopen it when those ideas fell through.

[JerryvonKramer]

Jim Crockett Sr is a very interesting figure to me. He seems like he was a little outside of the NWA Mafia that ruled the 50s and 60s, and by all accounts promoted stuff other than wrestling in the region. I don't really imagine him fraternising much with Sam Muchnick, Eddie Graham, Bob Giegel and so on. Just seems like he was more of a local big name in the Carolinas, rather than a wrestling guy.

 

People say that prior to George Scott, Mid-Atlantic was thought of as a tag promotion, but it seems like with the switch to singles matches on top, MACW became a more important territory and seemingly a bigger payday for stars.

 

I am curious to know more about Crockett Sr. The JCP Good Old Days doc just eulogised him in a sentimental and non-specific way.

 

To what extent are my generalisations fair?

[RazorbladeKiss87]

I have a quick question about L.A. Park. I apologize if this is stupid as I'm not someone who is knowledgeable on lucha. I watch it but don't follow it closely or know a lot about it historically. I haven't seen any discussion of him as a viable candidate here. Do you guys generally dismiss him as a HoF candidate? He's a wrestler I've always really enjoyed but don't know how he is seen in comparison.