funkdoc Posted October 5, 2014 Report Share Posted October 5, 2014 OG la parka is often considered to be a legitimate candidate, but lucha is far and away the biggest backlog for the HOF so he'll likely have to wait a while to really enter the discussion. at this moment you still have the misioneros, the brazos, the infernales, cien caras, villano III, blue panther, karloff lagarde, huracan ramirez...you could easily justify giving all 10 of your votes to luchadores this year! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjh Posted October 5, 2014 Report Share Posted October 5, 2014 I think Park has been hurt this year by the inclusion of a couple of overlooked trios on the ballot, who probably have stronger cases than he does, and leaving AAA, thus losing exposure. To me, he could do with a major mask vs. mask match to end his career on a high note, but that seems unlikely having burnt his bridges with both AAA and CMLL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted October 5, 2014 Report Share Posted October 5, 2014 Park is the Lucha version of Sasaki, but he's a a much better worker and he meant more as a freelancer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eduardo Posted October 5, 2014 Report Share Posted October 5, 2014 I still would like to see a detailed breakdown of when LA Park was headlining at the Plaza de Toros Lauro Luis Longoria in Nuevo Laredo. Heard from Jose that Park, along with Pierroth Jr. and Pimpinela Escarlata, were drawing a lot of fans to their weekly Monday night events in the late 1990's. If I'm not mistaken on the brief details I heard, they were doing better attendance than NJPW was doing during one year. Was it 1998? That was the year Pierroth Jr. dropped his mask to Park in Nuevo Laredo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilclown Posted October 5, 2014 Report Share Posted October 5, 2014 I can't imagine a world where Edge and Yuji Nagata are wrestling "Hall of Famers." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cox Posted October 6, 2014 Report Share Posted October 6, 2014  Mark Madden's ballot (source http://www.wrestlezone.com/editorials/516249-wrestling-observer-hall-of-fame-ballot ):  Historical performers: The Assassins, Von Brauners w/Saul Weingeroff. Modern performers: Ivan Koloff, Brock Lesnar.  Non-wrestlers: Jesse Ventura.   Bruce Mitchell's ballot or what he disclosed in the Torch this week:  Historical performers: The Assassins, Enrique Torres Modern performers: Ivan Koloff, Brock Lesnar.  Thanks for this. Is this Mitchell's entire ballot, or only what he discussed in the Torch? I would rather not count partial ballots if at all possible, but would if his whole ballot is not released elsewhere. Are there any other ballots posted on THE BOARD? I'm not currently a WON subscriber since they started blocking the WON site at work, but would reup if people are posting their full ballots over there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrisZ Posted October 6, 2014 Report Share Posted October 6, 2014 You can vote as many as you want up to 10 and there aren't many people that go to the full 10.....I've known of voters to vote just 1 person in and some not even vote that year at all because they thought there was no one worthy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cox Posted October 6, 2014 Report Share Posted October 6, 2014 So far, I have 10 full ballots, and would obviously love to have more. That only breaks down to 10 Modern US/Canada ballots, 7 Historic US/Canada ballots, 6 Japanese ballots, 5 Mexican ballots, 2 European ballots, 7 Australia/Pacific Islands/Caribbean/African/Antarctican/Martian/Galaxian ballots, and 10 non-wrestler ballots. From this (still admittedly very, very small) sample, I'm currently tracking Ivan Koloff, the Rock 'n' Roll express, Gran Hamada, Cien Caras, Signo/Texano/Navarro, Carlos Colon (who has been named on all 7 ballots that I've been able to find so far for this region), and Jerry Jarrett to make this year's Hall of Fame, although I expect the numbers for a lot of these guys to fall as I (hopefully) get a larger cross-section of ballots over the next week or so. Â One thing I've found interesting so far: through ten ballots, I've seen votes for everybody nominated for the non-wrestler category...except Larry Matysik. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rovert Posted October 6, 2014 Report Share Posted October 6, 2014 Thanks for this. Is this Mitchell's entire ballot, or only what he discussed in the Torch? I would rather not count partial ballots if at all possible, but would if his whole ballot is not released elsewhere. Â Are there any other ballots posted on THE BOARD? I'm not currently a WON subscriber since they started blocking the WON site at work, but would reup if people are posting their full ballots over there. Â His entire ballot from the Wrestlers category. I'll need to take a rain check on the Non-Wrestlers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cox Posted October 6, 2014 Report Share Posted October 6, 2014 Â Thanks for this. Is this Mitchell's entire ballot, or only what he discussed in the Torch? I would rather not count partial ballots if at all possible, but would if his whole ballot is not released elsewhere. Â Are there any other ballots posted on THE BOARD? I'm not currently a WON subscriber since they started blocking the WON site at work, but would reup if people are posting their full ballots over there. Â His entire ballot from the Wrestlers category. I'll need to take a rain check on the Non-Wrestlers. Â Fair enough. Thank you for posting this! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted October 6, 2014 Report Share Posted October 6, 2014 You can vote as many as you want up to 10 and there aren't many people that go to the full 10.....I've known of voters to vote just 1 person in and some not even vote that year at all because they thought there was no one worthy. Â I'm confused because many of the ballots in this thread list up to 15 people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eduardo Posted October 6, 2014 Report Share Posted October 6, 2014 Â You can vote as many as you want up to 10 and there aren't many people that go to the full 10.....I've known of voters to vote just 1 person in and some not even vote that year at all because they thought there was no one worthy. Â I'm confused because many of the ballots in this thread list up to 15 people. Â Â Kris is just talking about workers. I don't think there is a limit when it comes to how many non-workers you include. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Boricua Posted October 6, 2014 Report Share Posted October 6, 2014 Wrestlers is up to 10 selections overall. Non-wrestlers is up to 5 selections (it used to be unlimited but was changed for last year's election). Ballots with 15 names are voting for the maximum allowed (10 wrestlers and 5 non-wrestlers). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eduardo Posted October 6, 2014 Report Share Posted October 6, 2014 Cool, thanks for the update. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mookeighana Posted October 7, 2014 Report Share Posted October 7, 2014 Ballots I've seen:jeremydalewall http://theboard.f4wonline.com/viewtopic.php?p=5233215#p5233215mookieghana https://twitter.com/mookieghana/status/519103426941419520DezWalker http://theboard.f4wonline.com/viewtopic.php?p=5233434#p5233434WTFBix http://theboard.f4wonline.com/viewtopic.php?p=5229544#p5229544Alan4L http://theboard.f4wonline.com/viewtopic.php?p=5232383#p5232383W2BTD http://theboard.f4wonline.com/viewtopic.php?p=5232712#p5232712DylanWaco http://theboard.f4wonline.com/viewtopic.php?p=5232944#p5232944Bryan Rose http://www.voicesofwrestling.com/2014/10/03/a-first-time-voters-experience-ballot/Crimson Mask http://wrestlingclassics.com/.ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=7;t=000556;p=1#000025Steve Yohe http://wrestlingclassics.com/.ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=7;t=000556;p=1#000032clawmaster64 http://prowrestlingonly.com/index.php?/topic/28537-2014-wrestling-observer-hall-of-fame-thread/?p=5624403Kris Zellner http://wrestlingclassics.com/.ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=7;t=000556;p=3#000098Mark Madden http://www.wrestlezone.com/editorials/516249-wrestling-observer-hall-of-fame-ballotkjh http://prowrestlingonly.com/index.php?/topic/28537-2014-wrestling-observer-hall-of-fame-thread/?p=5630959evilclown http://prowrestlingonly.com/index.php?/topic/28537-2014-wrestling-observer-hall-of-fame-thread/?p=5630884Bruce Mitchell http://prowrestlingonly.com/index.php?/topic/28537-2014-wrestling-observer-hall-of-fame-thread/?p=5631165 New Ballots (now included) -- update: RobViper https://twitter.com/RobViper/status/519496264833310720TheCubsFan https://twitter.com/luchablog/status/519336243734515713Rob McCarron (emailed to me)Ian Hamilton (also emailed to me)Will Cooling (also emailed to me)John Patton (also emailed to me) Jose Fernandez (also emailed to me) Anonymous Voter (passed on through an emissary) Vote CountRock & Roll Express (Ricky Morton & Robert Gibson): 17 votesCarlos Colon: 13 votesIvan Koloff: 12 votesJimmy Hart: 10 votesJesse Ventura: 10 votesDick Murdoch: 10 votesJerry Jarrett: 10 votesBrock Lesnar: 9 votesCien Caras: 9 votesGene Okerlund: 8 votesStanley Weston: 7 votesEdge: 7 votesBill Apter: 6 votesGene Anderson & Ole Anderson: 6 votesJun Akiyama: 6 votesJunkyard Dog: 6 votesGran Hamada: 6 votes El Signo & El Texano & Negro Navarro: 6 votes Wilbur Snyder: 5 votesEnrique Torres: 5 votesDon Owen: 5 votesGeorge Scott: 5 votesHoward Finkel: 5 votesKarloff Lagarde: 5 votesJim Crockett Sr.: 4 votesKen Patera: 4 votesGorilla Monsoon: 4 votesAssassins: 4 votesVolk Han: 4 votesYuji Nagata: 4 votesAkira Taue: 4 votes Blue Panther: 4 votes Villano III: 4 votes Kinji Shibuya: 3 votesCM Punk: 3 votesJimmy Snuka: 3 votesGary Hart: 3 votes Big Daddy: 3 votes Pedro Morales: 3 votesMike & Ben Sharpe: 2 votesUltimate Warrior: 2 votesDr. Wagner Jr.: 2 votesMark Lewin: 2 votesSatoshi Kojima & Hiroyoshi Tenzan: 2 votesJohnny "Mr. Wrestling II" Walker: 2 votesDave Brown: 2 votesBrazo de Oro & Brazo de Plata & El Brazo: 2 votes Sting: 2 votes Jim Crockett Jr.: 2 votes Huracan Ramirez: 2 votes Minoru Suzuki: 1 voteVon Brauners: 1 voteLarry Matysik: 1 voteOwen Hart: 1 voteKiyoshi Tamura: 1 votePepper Gomez: 1 voteJohnny Saint: 1 voteJackie Pallo: 1 voteMasahiko Kimura: 1 voteFabulous Moolah: 1 voteKing Kong Czaja: 1 voteCiclon Negro: 1 vote Updated: 10/8/14 at 8 AM (CST) If you're a WON HOF voter or you see a WON HOF voter's ballot, please consider sending me a link to your ballots, or email me ([email protected]) or send me a board PM. Obviously, keep in mind that it's about percentage amongst those voting in a territory. In other words, Missionaries of Death are doing a lot better than Edge because they've been on most Mexico ballots while Edge is only on a fraction of the Modern US/Canada ballots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheapshot Posted October 7, 2014 Report Share Posted October 7, 2014 Using that sample it looks like Big Daddy is fucked again. *sigh*. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Posted October 7, 2014 Report Share Posted October 7, 2014 Has anyone ever done a top 50ish list for luchadors? I've only seen lists of mexican wrestlers in America, and that's not what I'm looking for. Â Honest question here. The conventional wisdom here on candidates is that amateur credentials/MMA work shouldn't be part of a Hall of Fame candidacy. But for wrestlers like El Santo, their movie career is a huge part of what made them cultural icons. Where does one draw the line on anything outside of wrestling? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tofu_chipmunk Posted October 7, 2014 Report Share Posted October 7, 2014 Has anyone ever done a top 50ish list for luchadors? I've only seen lists of mexican wrestlers in America, and that's not what I'm looking for.  Honest question here. The conventional wisdom here on candidates is that amateur credentials/MMA work shouldn't be part of a Hall of Fame candidacy. But for wrestlers like El Santo, their movie career is a huge part of what made them cultural icons. Where does one draw the line on anything outside of wrestling?   I don't think there has been an "official" one, but when Steve Yohe was running his Top 100 wrestling stars project late last year, Jose Fernandez' contribution to that effort included 50ish luchadors. I've added them below, including the ranks in the overall 100 that he submitted. I left Rey Misterio Jr. and Eddie Guerrero on the list for arguments' sake. I did remove lucha-inspired Satoru Sayama and Jushin Liger.  1.-El Santo 9.-Blue Demon 13.-Mil Mascaras 17.-Perro Aguayo 18.-El Solitario 19.-Ray Mendoza 20.-Rene Guajardo 23.-Rey Misterio Jr. 24.-Negro Casas 26.-Canek 28.-Carlos "Tarzan" Lopez 33.-Gori Guerrero 34.-Cavernario Galindo 36.-The Black Shadow 40.-Villano III 41.-Dos Caras 42.-Konnan 43.-Cien Caras 45.-El Charro Aguayo 46.-Los Infernales: Satanico 47.-Los Infernales: Pirata Morgan 48.-Los Infernales: MS-1 49.-El Hijo del Santo 50.-El Rayo de Jalisco 54.-Eddie Guerrero 55.-Anibal 56.-Dr. Wagner, Jr. 57.-Dr. Wagner, Sr. 58.-El Angel Blanco 59.-L.A. Park 65.-Karloff Lagarde, Sr. 66.-Murcielago Velazquez 67.-Espanto I 68.-Espanto II 70.-Misioneros de la Muerte: Negro Navarro 71.-Misioneros de la Muerte: El Signo 72.-Misioneros de la Muerte: El Texano 79.-Dientes Hernandez 80.-Jack O'Brien 81.-Rolando Vera 82.-Rito Romero 83.-Octavio Gaona 90.-Blue Panther 91.-Black Gordman 92.-Alfonso Dantes 93.-Medico Asesino 97.-Raul Romero 98.-Lizmark 99.-Atlantis 100.-Huracan Ramirez    Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
efrim Posted October 7, 2014 Report Share Posted October 7, 2014  Mark Madden http://www.wrestlezone.com/editorials/516249-wrestling-observer-hall-of-fame-ballot    Predictably the worst Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoe Posted October 7, 2014 Report Share Posted October 7, 2014 Dylan I see you didn't vote Murdoch. Did the podcast and the data drops not convince you enough? Also if you could have had another 2 spots would Murdoch make your ballot? It still seemed like you had a couple more people ahead of Murdoch. Final question what kept Murdoch off your ballot? I'm curious if Kris, Will, or Keith can address it? Or make a counter argument? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GSR Posted October 7, 2014 Report Share Posted October 7, 2014    Mark Madden http://www.wrestlezone.com/editorials/516249-wrestling-observer-hall-of-fame-ballot   Predictably the worst His reasoning for not even considering the Anderson's is frankly pathetic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cox Posted October 7, 2014 Report Share Posted October 7, 2014 Â Ballots I've seen: jeremydalewall http://theboard.f4wonline.com/viewtopic.php?p=5233215#p5233215 mookieghana https://twitter.com/mookieghana/status/519103426941419520 DezWalker http://theboard.f4wonline.com/viewtopic.php?p=5233434#p5233434 WTFBix http://theboard.f4wonline.com/viewtopic.php?p=5229544#p5229544 Alan4L http://theboard.f4wonline.com/viewtopic.php?p=5232383#p5232383 W2BTD http://theboard.f4wonline.com/viewtopic.php?p=5232712#p5232712 DylanWaco http://theboard.f4wonline.com/viewtopic.php?p=5232944#p5232944 Bryan Rose http://www.voicesofwrestling.com/2014/10/03/a-first-time-voters-experience-ballot/ Crimson Mask http://wrestlingclassics.com/.ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=7;t=000556;p=1#000025 Steve Yohe http://wrestlingclassics.com/.ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=7;t=000556;p=1#000032 clawmaster64 http://prowrestlingonly.com/index.php?/topic/28537-2014-wrestling-observer-hall-of-fame-thread/?p=5624403 Kris Zellner http://wrestlingclassics.com/.ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=7;t=000556;p=3#000098 Mark Madden http://www.wrestlezone.com/editorials/516249-wrestling-observer-hall-of-fame-ballot kjh http://prowrestlingonly.com/index.php?/topic/28537-2014-wrestling-observer-hall-of-fame-thread/?p=5630959 evilclown http://prowrestlingonly.com/index.php?/topic/28537-2014-wrestling-observer-hall-of-fame-thread/?p=5630884 Bruce Mitchell http://prowrestlingonly.com/index.php?/topic/28537-2014-wrestling-observer-hall-of-fame-thread/?p=5631165 Â New Ballots (now included) -- update: RobViper https://twitter.com/RobViper/status/519496264833310720 TheCubsFan https://twitter.com/luchablog/status/519336243734515713 Rob McCarron (emailed to me) AnonymousVoter (also emailed to me) AnonymousVoter2 (also emailed to me) Â Vote Count Rock & Roll Express (Ricky Morton & Robert Gibson) 15 Carlos Colon 12 Ivan Koloff 10 Jerry Jarrett 10 Jimmy Hart 10 Brock Lesnar 9 Dick Murdoch 9 Jesse Ventura 9 Cien Caras 8 Gene Okerlund 8 Edge 6 Gran Hamada 6 Junkyard Dog 6 Don Owen 5 El Signo & El Texano & Negro Navarro 5 Gene Anderson & Ole Anderson 5 George Scott 5 Jun Akiyama 5 Stanley Weston 5 Akira Taue 4 Bill Apter 4 Enrique Torres 4 Gorilla Monsoon 4 Howard Finkel 4 Karloff Lagarde 4 Ken Patera 4 Volk Han 4 Wilbur Snyder 4 Yuji Nagata 4 Assassins 3 Blue Panther 3 CM Punk 3 Gary Hart 3 Jim Crockett Sr. 3 Kinji Shibuya 3 Pedro Morales 3 Villano III 3 Big Daddy 2 Dave Brown 2 Jim Crockett Jr. 2 Jimmy Snuka 2 Johnny "Mr. Wrestling II" Walker 2 Mark Lewin 2 Mike & Ben Sharpe 2 Ultimate Warrior 2 Brazo de Oro & Brazo de Plata & El Brazo 1 Dr. Wagner Jr. 1 Huracan Ramirez 1 Jackie Pallo 1 Johnny Saint 1 King Kong Czaja 1 Kiyoshi Tamura 1 Larry Matysik 1 Masahiko Kimura 1 Minoru Suzuki 1 Owen Hart 1 Pepper Gomez 1 Satoshi Kojima & Hiroyoshi Tenzan 1 Sting 1 Von Brauners 1 Updated: 10/7/14 at Noon (CST) Please send me links to published ballots/emails ([email protected])/or board PM. Obviously, keep in mind that it's about percentage amongst those voting in a territory. In other words, Missionaries of Death are doing a lot better than Edge because they've been on most Mexico ballots while Edge is only on a fraction of the Modern US/Canada ballots. Â Nice job, Chris. It looks like I won't need to be tracking these after all, since you had every ballot that I had, plus others, and can probably obtain more anonymous ballots than I could, so I'll drop out of the ballot collection and wish you well with this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
efrim Posted October 7, 2014 Report Share Posted October 7, 2014    Mark Madden http://www.wrestlezone.com/editorials/516249-wrestling-observer-hall-of-fame-ballot   Predictably the worst His reasoning for not even considering the Anderson's is frankly pathetic.   Shameful that somebody who plainly has nothing but disdain for pro wrestling draws a paycheck writing about it professionally. His argument for both Brock and Ventura is that they accomplished things outside of wrestling that he presents as superior to wrestling accomplishments and doesn't connect these accomplishments to their wrestling careers whatsoever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DylanZero Posted October 7, 2014 Report Share Posted October 7, 2014 I'd love to see an impromptu vote among everyone on this website as well as other HOF voters as to whether Madden is allowed to keep his vote after his run. Seems like he just wants to piss people off, just like with everything else he's ever done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
victory Posted October 7, 2014 Report Share Posted October 7, 2014     Mark Madden http://www.wrestlezone.com/editorials/516249-wrestling-observer-hall-of-fame-ballot   Predictably the worst His reasoning for not even considering the Anderson's is frankly pathetic. What an awful reason. Like Ole would honestly even give a shit if he went in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.