2014 Wrestling Observer Hall of Fame thread

[Matt D]

I'm a huge fan of Bonema, but I sort of agree with Dave that he really would have only worked in Portland. There was such a cozy, familiar, local feel to Portland between the sponsors who you knew as well as the wrestlers and Sandy Barr's flea market.

[KrisZ]

Forgot about Bonema in my list and he ranks high as well.

[shakla]

On those who dropped off the ballot, here's a list compiled at wrestlingclassics: http://wrestlingclassics.com/.ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=7;t=000499

 

I just started listening to the podcast Bix linked up. One of the first things brought up was if Warrior or JYD had ever been on the ballot. I assume it gets cleared up later on.

[El Boricua]

Thanks for providing the reasoning of why Matysik is on the ballot Bix. I had never heard him talked up as a potential ballot candidate before and was genuinely curious as to what would be the reasoning for including him this year.

[JerryvonKramer]

From what I've heard, Matysik was painfully average as an announcer. Just my take, of course, but in no way does he stand out as being outstanding in that category.

 

When a guy like Jesse Ventura -- hands down the best colour commentator ever to get in the booth -- is struggling to stay on the ballot, the notion that Matysik should go in based on his announcing talent is literally sickening to me. SICKENING.

 

Did anyone else in our little circle besides Dylan get a vote this year that previously haven't?

 

I'm so confused by the changes that I have sort of checked out on the process already and am looking forward to podcast output / long articles on contenders at this point.

We have some Titans shows planned for HoF season (where my Ivan pimping will culminate -- each Titan is backing one candidate, so four Xtras on this), so between us, the VoW shows and whatever Dylan and Dave have brewing on Wrestling Culture, this year should have more comprehensive coverage of the whole thing than ever before.

[ohtani's jacket]

Someone needs to twist Jose's arm into making his podcast debut so there can actually be some lucha discussion that's comprehensive.

[JerryvonKramer]

OJ, do you have any particular thoughts on the weird Australia megamix category?

[ohtani's jacket]

No, to put it bluntly.

 

EDIT: I've put the Europe section to some British historians and we'll see if they care to answer. Personally, I don't agree with the ballot selections, but my preferences wouldn't get voted for anyway.

[Dylan Waco]

Someone needs to twist Jose's arm into making his podcast debut so there can actually be some lucha discussion that's comprehensive.

 

Jose has agreed to do Wrestling Culture it's just a matter of finding the right time for it

[ohtani's jacket]

Should be good. Wait til you hear him rattle off the names. It's awesome.

[El Boricua]

I am looking forward to that episode of Wrestling Culture with Jose whenever it's done and available.

[pantherwagner]

Yes I promised Dylan and Dave to give them my podcast debut and probably retirement episode. Sometime in the next few weeks wouldn't be a bad time, I just need to stop working stupid hours during six days a week I guess.

[shakla]

Looking at this listing of those who dropped off the ballot (http://wrestlingclassics.com/.ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=7;t=000499) I noticed there were a few names on this listing who are also on the 15-year rule listing for this year.

 

Cien Caras dropped off in 2001.

Pedro Morales & Gene/Ole Anderson dropped off in 2002.

Gran Hamada dropped off in 2004.

 

In the description for the potential drop-off listing, Dave says "The following candidates have been on the ballot since 2000." I take this to mean that they have been (and stayed on) each ballot since 2000. With these 4 names, since they dropped off the ballot during this period, they were not on the ballot for at least a few years.

 

Found a 2001 ballot via a newsgroup post: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/rec.sport.pro-wrestling.moderated/Yp-jrKhzHsM

(click top link/message if it doesn't take you there)

 

Via a quick search, Pedro Morales fell off in 2002, was not on the 2008 ballot (per this: http://carltonprescott.proboards.com/thread/13 ). but was on the 2009 ballot. (link won't add in, should be on F4W) So if we make a generous assumption that he was on each ballot from 1998-2002 (he was on the 2001, not sure before that), there's 5, then add 2009-2014, that's 6. So he's been on 11 ballots (including this year) at the most, if everything checks out.

 

Based on the links above, Cien Caras was not on the ballot in 2008 or 2009, so he has likely been on less ballots than Pedro.

 

All other names in the listing besides the 4 mentioned above were on the 2001 ballot, likely were on the 2000 (or earlier) ballot and have not dropped off.

 

Someone may want to point this out to Dave. Hopefully we can get some clarification on this rule (is it 15 years (cumulative/non-consecutive) you can be on the ballot? Do gaps when off ballot count year-wise?) and perhaps the above names can be reconsidered.

[kjh]

I already emailed Dave on this issue:

 

 

 

Hi Dave,

Regarding the new 15-year rule, is it meant to apply to wrestlers who dropped off the ballot and were placed back on at a later date, or just to wrestlers who have been on the ballot for 15 straight years? I think Caras, Morales and The Andersons all had a few years when they weren't on the ballot.

Best wishes,

Keith.

 

Dave's answer was "15 years from first appearing" because it shouldn't be beneficial to drop off the ballot.

 

I think Dave must have just looked at who was on the 2000 ballot, as Akira Taue, Curt Hennig, Mark Lewin, Blue Panther, Ken Patera and Sting all dropped off in 1998 and Sgt Slaughter did in 1999 according to that WrestlingClassics thread, so their time should be up too. However, I'm not going to point out the inconsistency to him given that the ballot will be purged more than enough already without any extra help.

 

Was Atlantis on the first ballot in 1998? If so, he had 16 years on the ballot. :-/

[funkdoc]

since JYD is on the ballot, here's something i've always wondered about:

 

i remember seeing scott keith at some point claim that JYD was "one of wrestling's earliest steroid abusers" or something similar. if he got that from meltzer...then maybe meltzer sees "helped make steroids en vogue" as part of his legacy and that's a reason he's always so down on him?

 

no idea, but i've had this in my head for quite a while so figured i'd ask!

[NintendoLogic]

Superstar Billy Graham is far more culpable in that regard, and he was one of the inaugural inductees. So I doubt that's the main thing holding JYD back.

[kjh]

I just think Meltzer was snarkier in his earlier days, hence the Junkfood Dog nickname when his weight and drug problems started spiraling out of control in the mid 1980s. I also think Meltzer values working ability more than many Hall Of Fame voters.

[FedEx227]

since JYD is on the ballot, here's something i've always wondered about:

 

i remember seeing scott keith at some point claim that JYD was "one of wrestling's earliest steroid abusers" or something similar. if he got that from meltzer...then maybe meltzer sees "helped make steroids en vogue" as part of his legacy and that's a reason he's always so down on him?

 

no idea, but i've had this in my head for quite a while so figured i'd ask!

 

That seems really unrealistic given the time of his debut, steroids were already heavily "en vogue" among weight lifters and body builders. I have a hard time believing JYD of all people was the one to make the wrestling world realize their aesthetic benefit.

[shakla]

I already emailed Dave on this issue:

 

 

 

Hi Dave,

Regarding the new 15-year rule, is it meant to apply to wrestlers who dropped off the ballot and were placed back on at a later date, or just to wrestlers who have been on the ballot for 15 straight years? I think Caras, Morales and The Andersons all had a few years when they weren't on the ballot.

Best wishes,

Keith.

 

Dave's answer was "15 years from first appearing" because it shouldn't be beneficial to drop off the ballot.

 

I think Dave must have just looked at who was on the 2000 ballot, as Akira Taue, Curt Hennig, Mark Lewin, Blue Panther, Ken Patera and Sting all dropped off in 1998 and Sgt Slaughter did in 1999 according to that WrestlingClassics thread, so their time should be up too. However, I'm not going to point out the inconsistency to him given that the ballot will be purged more than enough already without any extra help.

 

Was Atlantis on the first ballot in 1998? If so, he had 16 years on the ballot. :-/

 

Thanks for sharing that. I sent a e-mail to Dave as well with my findings. I agree that it shouldn't be too beneficial to drop off, but there have been several candidates who did drop off and were later elected. The way Dave words it, it's like they were on the ballot "in theory" and got 0% the years they were off. And yes, it appears Dave looked at the 2000 ballot/issue and looked for matching names, likely not considering who fell off.

 

I think Pedro Morales should be removed from 15 year/50% category. Not only has he been on the ballot less than 15 years cumulatively, but he's in the historical performer candidates for the first time this year. It's a different pool of candidates and in theory, somewhat different pool of voters. He should have a few years in that category unless he drops off in the "traditional"/less than 10% of votes way.

 

The Andersons had 52% last year and Cien Caras had 45% (plus 2 Mexico candidates were elected, possibly clearing some ballot space), so those cases may be moot. Gran Hamada was around 30%, not sure about him.

[soup23]

I don't have an account at wc but just to clarify, did Yohe vote for Nagata because he enjoyed his work in the 2014 G-1?

[JerryvonKramer]

I would like an account at WC, but it doesn't seem possible. Anyone here in with the admin over there?

[Dylan Waco]

My first piece at Voices of Wrestling covering the HOF: http://www.voicesofwrestling.com/2014/09/09/five-candidates-worth-a-closer-look-observer-hall-of-fame/

[victory]

I would like an account at WC, but it doesn't seem possible. Anyone here in with the admin over there?

Does WC stand for Wrestling Classics? I presume it does. Anybody can sign up for that board, unless they just changed the rules recently.

[goodhelmet]

At least Bix has Murdoch on his ballot.

[W2BTD]

I don't have an account at wc but just to clarify, did Yohe vote for Nagata because he enjoyed his work in the 2014 G-1?

 

He mentioned this year's G1 as a factor in raising his stock. I have no idea if that's why he voted him.