GOTNW Posted December 10, 2015 Report Share Posted December 10, 2015 Choshu-Fujinami matches were super exciting and smart and well built and better than the AJ tags. Parv hates fun and all that is good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted January 21, 2016 Report Share Posted January 21, 2016 Still not really convinced on Choshu as a singles guy. On the AJ set, I much preferred the tags to the singles matches. As I said in my last NJ reviews, I think he's a guy who was better reacting to things than leading the action. He's not the best at putting together a heat sequence or pressing an advantage when on top. He goes to ground a lot but then doesn't have that much he does when he's down there. The scorpion starts to look like a crutch. I much preferred 7/783 to the other matches because Fujinami was leading most of the action and things were so much more exciting as a result. I think it's because Fujinami was better on top than Choshu was. Anyone else find this with Choshu? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luchaundead Posted January 21, 2016 Report Share Posted January 21, 2016 Random off topic non sequitur but, I think I have a possible Mandel effect, does anyone else remember Riki Choshu having blonde hair? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Microstatistics Posted January 22, 2016 Report Share Posted January 22, 2016 On 1/21/2016 at 11:15 PM, JerryvonKramer said: Still not really convinced on Choshu as a singles guy. On the AJ set, I much preferred the tags to the singles matches. As I said in my last NJ reviews, I think he's a guy who was better reacting to things than leading the action. He's not the best at putting together a heat sequence or pressing an advantage when on top. He goes to ground a lot but then doesn't have that much he does when he's down there. The scorpion starts to look like a crutch. I much preferred 7/783 to the other matches because Fujinami was leading most of the action and things were so much more exciting as a result. I think it's because Fujinami was better on top than Choshu was. Anyone else find this with Choshu? I agree with you. I like Choshu and he will make my Top 50 but he is better suited for tag wrestling than singles. He has been involved in great singles matches but they were against people like Fujinami, Fujiwara and Hashimoto. He is much better in short bursts and at making contributions to matches than he is at holding them together and running things. Haven't seen 7/7/1983 yet but there was something missing about his performance in 4/21/1983, and even though I liked his aggression, I thought it was pretty much a Fujinami showcase (still I love the match and have it at around **** 1/2). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Childs Posted January 22, 2016 Report Share Posted January 22, 2016 On 1/21/2016 at 11:15 PM, JerryvonKramer said: Still not really convinced on Choshu as a singles guy. On the AJ set, I much preferred the tags to the singles matches. As I said in my last NJ reviews, I think he's a guy who was better reacting to things than leading the action. He's not the best at putting together a heat sequence or pressing an advantage when on top. He goes to ground a lot but then doesn't have that much he does when he's down there. The scorpion starts to look like a crutch. I much preferred 7/783 to the other matches because Fujinami was leading most of the action and things were so much more exciting as a result. I think it's because Fujinami was better on top than Choshu was. Anyone else find this with Choshu? Your criticisms of Choshu are the ones I'd make if I was picking him apart and yet, when I'm watching him, I just don't care. Part of it is that he excelled at the struggle over simple moves, which as you said, isn't your thing. Part of it is that he rarely overplayed his hand by going long (the Jumbo match was an obvious and tedious exception). I don't know; he's maybe the ultimate greater than the sum of his parts guy. But don't expect a big change in the way he works. He really set his template with the Fujinami series, though I suppose he went more lariat-heavy later. I currently have him No. 21. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted January 22, 2016 Report Share Posted January 22, 2016 Honestly, I'm just waiting for Yatsu to turn up to carry the load for him again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Childs Posted January 22, 2016 Report Share Posted January 22, 2016 On 1/22/2016 at 1:23 AM, JerryvonKramer said: Honestly, I'm just waiting for Yatsu to turn up to carry the load for him again Exactly. Yatsu actually never felt as important in New Japan as he would in All Japan, though his talent was apparent. There are some nifty Choshu tags to look forward to late in the decade. I bet you'll enjoy '87-'89 Masa Saito. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOTNW Posted January 25, 2016 Report Share Posted January 25, 2016 Choshu has made his way into my top ten. No matter how much I like a wrestler, and no matter what wrestler is in question there comes a time where I find myself disappointed either in a wrestler's performance or match in some way and Choshu is the sole exception I can think of. Even if I don't think a Choshu match was any good (like the Mutoh 92 match) he'll still do enough cool stuff in it to make it worthwhile. I don't think he has any apparent except not being a master of doing broadways but that is something I just don't care about. I see folks criticising something like him using a backdrop counter to a headlock and talking about how the other guy has to "feed him" in an overly contrived way (paraphrasing)........I mean the headlock is such a basic pro wrestling spot that I don't see why organically setting up that spot would be an issue, if anything it adds both meaning and threat to the move and allows him to play it up on special occasions. And though execution isn't something I usually gush over the way Choshu makes EVERYTHING look devastating, from his Lariats, throws or just basic stomps (seriously who has better stomps than Choshu?) anything he does looks like a million bucks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fxnj Posted January 25, 2016 Report Share Posted January 25, 2016 On 1/25/2016 at 5:29 PM, GOTNW said: Choshu has made his way into my top ten. No matter how much I like a wrestler, and no matter what wrestler is in question there comes a time where I find myself disappointed either in a wrestler's performance or match in some way and Choshu is the sole exception I can think of.Guessing you haven't seen the Fujinami matches from the last few years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOTNW Posted January 25, 2016 Report Share Posted January 25, 2016 I love old man Choshu but old man Choshu is no old man Fujiwara (nor is Fujinami for that matter). I can watch them but I really don't see why I'd be disappointed with them since the magic was gone by 1992 anyway (I still thought it was a quite good match though). There is a bunch of fun 2000s Choshu to fall back on even if those matches end up sucking (which I really doubt will be my opinion on them). edit: I just watched Riki Choshu vs Tatsumi Fujinami-LEGEND 30.9.2011. which I thought was a very fun match smartly built around their signature spots. Not sure what more you could ask for given their age. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boss Rock Posted April 21, 2021 Report Share Posted April 21, 2021 I think as far as grumpy, hard-hitting guys go I'd put Tenryu and Jumbo ahead but I like Choshu a lot. Rivals Tenryu as Hashimoto's best opponent, was part of many of those excellent 80's AJPW tags, and could always be counted on as a big match performer when he returned to NJPW in the 90's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strobogo Posted April 21, 2021 Report Share Posted April 21, 2021 I've mentioned it multiple times in multiple threads that I've been going through the AJ Archive and I'm into the middle of 1986 and can not stand Choshu at this point. Anything that goes over 10 minutes is guaranteed to be mostly Choshu sitting in half of a scorpion deathlock which will never end a match unless it is a very low ranking member of a tag or six man being put in it. Singles matches, as few and far between as they are in AJPW, are full of blatant filler and bullshit finishes no matter the length. You can be pretty well assured he's going to take your finish and then pop up to hit you with a backdrop or lariat with in 45 seconds. In a tag, he does nothing, lets his teammates carry the whole match, then pops in to no sell a finish and hit a lariat or find something else to do while his team mate drops a fall. For whatever he added to AJPW's over all match style, by mid 1986 he's such an albatross and I dread anything he's in. At that time, the Calgary Hurricanes are far more exciting and have more heated matches than anything Choshu and his group are doing. Choshu's revolution lasted about 4-6 months before it was stale, or more specifically, HE was stale. His single matches suck, the tags his crew are in that don't feature him at all are routinely better. Can not wait for this little shit to go back to New Japan. Of all the big legends in puro, Choshu has to be the guy I like the least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boss Rock Posted April 21, 2021 Report Share Posted April 21, 2021 What do you think of the January '86 tag against Jumbo and Tenryu? That's always been MOTY of '86 for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strobogo Posted April 21, 2021 Report Share Posted April 21, 2021 I have it as recommended, but not highly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overbooked Posted April 21, 2021 Report Share Posted April 21, 2021 Over the last year I've watched a lot of his All Japan stuff and agree the singles matches are virtually all skippable, bar the Killer Khan match, and Terry Funk match in October 1986. However, I do think the tag matches are great and while Choshu is rarely the MVP, I do think his charisma helps hold it all together - having super workers like Tenryu and Yatsu bounce off a Proper Star like Choshu just makes everything that more special. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strobogo Posted April 21, 2021 Report Share Posted April 21, 2021 Riki Choshu spends 80% of his time in matches in half a scorpion or adjusting his hair Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overbooked Posted April 21, 2021 Report Share Posted April 21, 2021 On 4/21/2021 at 4:07 PM, strobogo said: Riki Choshu spends 80% of his time in matches in half a scorpion or adjusting his hair Expand I don't mean to sound perverse, but I don't think that's a bad thing! It's like he's the fulcrum in tag matches, keeping it simple so everyone else can get the more complex stuff in. And his mannerisms and aura takes those tags beyond just great "work" to something more special. I don't things the crowd goes so nuts in those matches without him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOTNW Posted April 21, 2021 Report Share Posted April 21, 2021 On 4/21/2021 at 4:07 PM, strobogo said: Riki Choshu spends 80% of his time in matches in half a scorpion or adjusting his hair Expand Greatest of all time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Makai Club #1 Posted April 21, 2021 Report Share Posted April 21, 2021 I love that he does that. The fact that he can make a compelling match doing very little and prolonging the match by struggling to put on the Scorpion Hold or a simple suplex is a plus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rah Posted April 22, 2021 Report Share Posted April 22, 2021 I guess it comes down to preference - do you value wrestlers more who adjust their hair (Choshu) or adjust their pants (Misawa)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strobogo Posted April 22, 2021 Report Share Posted April 22, 2021 Pants, as it is important not to expose your junk to an opponent and leave yourself open to attack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DylanZero Posted April 22, 2021 Report Share Posted April 22, 2021 On 4/22/2021 at 1:38 PM, strobogo said: Pants, as it is important not to expose your junk to an opponent and leave yourself open to attack. Expand Checkmate, Choshu fans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elliott Posted April 22, 2021 Report Share Posted April 22, 2021 If your hair is in your eyes, you're leaving yourself open for Akira Maeda to waltz over and break your face. Misawa must have worked a match with Satanico when he went to Mexico in the 80s and never forgot the trauma. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strobogo Posted April 22, 2021 Report Share Posted April 22, 2021 That's the thing, its never in his eyes, he's just adjusting to make sure it is properly feathered at all times Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boss Rock Posted April 22, 2021 Report Share Posted April 22, 2021 When you're that much of a badass, you have time to look good for the camera. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.thumb.jpg.00c68798e2502c92a7da65280cf7def4.jpg)
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.