"Ravishing" Rick Rude

[Grimmas]

Discuss here.

[KrisZ]

Rude is such an interesting case because his career ended right at the time he was going through his best run as a performer. 1992-94 Rude was fantastic in the ring and probably the best heel in the United States.

 

Rude showed potential in Memphis in 1984 working with great talent there like Lawler, Idol, Rich, & Savage but it wasn't until he got to World Class where he got the chance to really blossom but the downside of his run there was he never got the main event run of working a Von Erich like he should've. Rude & Manny as a team in JCP in 86-87 was one of my favorite short-lived teams of all-time and again it was a shame he didn't get a singles run there.

 

Rude then going to WWF made his career as he became a legendary performer there although he never got the run with Hogan that would've made him even bigger although he can say that he had the best matches Warrior ever had.

[goodhelmet]

I love me some Rick Rude matches but I think he misses my personal cut. Top 200 for sure. Just misses my 100.

[JerryvonKramer]

I've said it before but I think pre-89 Rude sucks, especially in WWF, but I don't think he was particularly great in the R n R team either.

 

Can anyone point to pre-89 performances from Rude in the territories worth seeking out?

 

My line on Rude for a long time is that he didn't quite put it all together until 1989 after which he's sensational, but bizarrely spends the best part of a year on the sidelines in 90-1, and he's done by 94.

 

So it's a case of just how strong are those three years? 89, 92, 93 ... I think 93 is generally down from the 92 highs. I think Rude is struggling to make the cut at this point for me. Some evidence of great performances prior to 89 would help him a lot.

[Loss]

You've seen Rude-Manny vs Rock & Rolls from the studio, right? Just after Starrcade with the Rock & Rolls still selling injuries. I'm not a guy to praise pre-89 Rude, but I do like that match.

[goodhelmet]

He had good-great performances in Memphis against Savage and Lawler including sweet tags with Bundy. Probably says more about Lawler and Savage carrying a very green Rude than it does about Rude. If you don't like the Rn'R vs. RNR matches then that is just a difference of opinion because I love all that shit. I also liked Rude in World Class but I seem to be in the minority on that one.

[Childs]

I won't vote for Rude. Excellent bumper with terrific heel charisma. But he really wasn't a top worker for more than three years. I always found his offense kind of blah relative to his physical tools.

[W2BTD]

(Feed & Bump) Top 100 of All Time - absolutely.

 

Overall Top 100 of All Time?

 

Nah. Too much below average (and flat out boring) material.

[funkdoc]

yea, put me down as not a fan of pre-89 *or* post-92 rude. a definite "no" imo, as fun as he was at his best

[JazeUSA]

I keep seeing on all these posts on all these different guys about how they weren't ''top'' workers this & that, that's a bull shit frame of mind to have with a project like this, if that's what you give points on I guess Hulk Hogan will be everyone's #1 huh? You do not have to be a ''on top'' worker to be one of the best professional wrestlers of all time IMO, Steve Regal, Dave Finley, Arn Anderson, Bobby Eaton, Dick Murdoch, Eddie Gilbert, Larry Zbyszko, Magnum TA, Paul Orndorff, I could go on & on, none of them were ever ''on top'' workers for long amounts of time but its highway robbery to leave them off the ballots

[ohtani's jacket]

I don't think that's what people mean by a top worker. "Top" means top handful in this case.

[DR Ackermann]

A top worker is someone who ranks near the top in terms of work. Nothing to do with card placement.

[BillThompson]

A top worker is someone who ranks near the top in terms of work. Nothing to do with card placement.

 

There are some people, I believe Parv and Loss for example, who have said that where a guy is placed on a card does matter to them. They, or if I'm mistaken the people who did say this, believe that being a great worker isn't enough. It matters where you are a great worker and the amount of importance you have to the card and the industry. Can't say I agree, but that viewpoint is present.

[Childs]

I keep seeing on all these posts on all these different guys about how they weren't ''top'' workers this & that, that's a bull shit frame of mind to have with a project like this, if that's what you give points on I guess Hulk Hogan will be everyone's #1 huh? You do not have to be a ''on top'' worker to be one of the best professional wrestlers of all time IMO, Steve Regal, Dave Finley, Arn Anderson, Bobby Eaton, Dick Murdoch, Eddie Gilbert, Larry Zbyszko, Magnum TA, Paul Orndorff, I could go on & on, none of them were ever ''on top'' workers for long amounts of time but its highway robbery to leave them off the ballots

 

I said Rude wasn't a "top worker" for more than a few years. Didn't say a word about whether he was "on top." I think you're just misunderstanding the phrasing.

[GSR]

Kris has already touched on it, but I really dug Rude & Fernandez as a team when I was going through my 1986/7 NWA discs.

[JazeUSA]

 

I keep seeing on all these posts on all these different guys about how they weren't ''top'' workers this & that, that's a bull shit frame of mind to have with a project like this, if that's what you give points on I guess Hulk Hogan will be everyone's #1 huh? You do not have to be a ''on top'' worker to be one of the best professional wrestlers of all time IMO, Steve Regal, Dave Finley, Arn Anderson, Bobby Eaton, Dick Murdoch, Eddie Gilbert, Larry Zbyszko, Magnum TA, Paul Orndorff, I could go on & on, none of them were ever ''on top'' workers for long amounts of time but its highway robbery to leave them off the ballots

 

I said Rude wasn't a "top worker" for more than a few years. Didn't say a word about whether he was "on top." I think you're just misunderstanding the phrasing.

 

gotcha! I was reading into it wrong, we're on the same page now & that point I can agree with you on

[JazeUSA]

Kris has already touched on it, but I really dug Rude & Fernandez as a team when I was going through my 1986/7 NWA discs.

it's too bad he didn't stay around Crockett longer back then, I would have loved to have seen where that team went

[Loss]

 

A top worker is someone who ranks near the top in terms of work. Nothing to do with card placement.

 

There are some people, I believe Parv and Loss for example, who have said that where a guy is placed on a card does matter to them. They, or if I'm mistaken the people who did say this, believe that being a great worker isn't enough. It matters where you are a great worker and the amount of importance you have to the card and the industry. Can't say I agree, but that viewpoint is present.

 

 

Not so much when ranking wrestlers, but definitely when ranking matches. An undercard opener can absolutely be better than a main event on a major show, but a great world title match is something I think is almost always better than a great show opener. I do think main events have obvious working advantages that undercard matches don't, such as time allotted, wrestlers involved who are generally more protected in booking and right of first refusal on when particular spots, props, finishes or shortcuts will be used on a card. So it makes sense that the awesome main events usually trump the awesome undercard matches.

 

The very best undercard matches are the ones where those involved can create that same atmosphere where the stakes are high and winning and losing *matters*, which is more difficult to accomplish with no championship on the line. So I wouldn't quite call that an accurate depiction of my opinion; it's more nuanced than that. (Insert jokes about me and my nuanced opinions here, Dylan, Dave and Will.)

 

While I do think a great main event is better than a great undercard match more often than not, I also think a curtain jerker who steals the show has accomplished something more difficult than a headliner doing the same. So the matches are often better, but I am not sure the workers are.

 

Sorry for the aside, I don't want to take away from the Rude discussion. I just wanted to be more clear on where I stand on this.

[JerryvonKramer]

My view on this is less nuanced.

 

NWA World Champ when it mattered > career mid-carder > career JTTS or jobber

 

People can pretend that it doesn't matter but who is putting Johnny Rodz forward other than my man Kelly? Where's all the Mike Jackson discussion?

 

Vast majority of people being discussed are main eventers or upper midcarders. People will point to Arn, but he worked a hell of a lot of semi-mains in his career and was part of two of the most high-profile stables in wrestling history, so let's not kid ourselves that it doesn't matter.

[BillThompson]

A lot of lower mid-carders have been nominated, and I know I will have some on my ballot because the work matters to me, not placement on the card over a career.

[Timbo Slice]

It's all relative. There's guys who work on the lower mid-card who do good enough stuff that it's tough to not consider them, and then there's guys who work at the top of the card, work a completely different style and it still works. If you're looking for a specific style of work, there's going to be a smorgasbord of wrestlers that are going to be very similar and card placement won't mean a damn thing.

[JerryvonKramer]

How many lower mid-carders are being discussed primarily on the strength of their lower mid-card work?

 

I think people are genuinely delusional about this. Ideally the card placement doesn't matter, but you're kidding yourself if you think it doesn't.

[Loss]

Parv, I think you should clarify that you see an act like the Rock & Roll Express, as one example, as top guys and not career midcarders. I could see some people reading that and thinking only world champions should be considered at that level, and I don't think that's what you are saying at all.

[JerryvonKramer]

It's not. Rock n Roll Express were a main event drawing tag-team working long 20-30 minute matches, gimmick matches, etc. They were on the top of cards. They were a featured act with feuds and storylines, who would have mains on the house show loop and semi-mains on PPVs.

 

A lower mid-carder at that time would be someone like Sam Houston or Rocky King. I don't see threads for those guys or discussion of them. I don't see anyone discussing Jim Powers.

[goc]

Card placement absolutely matters in the discussion even if just because guys higher on the card are given more time and more opportunities to have a good match.