Jack Brisco

[Grimmas]

Discuss here.

[JerryvonKramer]

I've made a start.

 

My initial impressions are that Brisco is SAFELY in contention for "best wrestler of the 70s". He's silky smooth, very athletic, great high dropkicks, deep armdrags, fastest figure-four ever, big bumps, terrific at selling, good fire, good timing, great connection with the crowd. He just seems to be everything that you'd want a pro wrestler to be.

 

I'd recommend trying to find that Terry Funk match from St. Louis. It is clipped and there's no sound, but you can tell that was a great match.

 

My basic plan from here on out is to alternate between Dory, Brisco and Race in between all the other stuff I'm watching. I am "saving" the Jack Brisco vs. Dory Funk Jr series for last as a kind of finale.

[Lee Casebolt]

Someone who enjoys Dory as much as you should adore the Funk/Brisco series. Some of my favorite matches, despite being pretty down on Dory myself.

[Childs]

Wow, I've always thought those Brisco-Dory matches were unbelievably dull. And I like both guys in other settings, especially Brisco.

[shoe]

I liked the match from Florida with Solie, Brisco, and Coach Heath in the studio.

[JerryvonKramer]

Coach Heath is a top 3 all-time colour analyst for me. Pete, have you seen Dory Jr vs. Mike Graham Australian rules match from Florida circa 81? Heath makes that match.

[shoe]

I have. I gotta revisit it. I'll give it a watch tonight. Heath was great at explaining holds and stuff .

[JerryvonKramer]

What do people make of my claim that Brisco invented the 80s NWA babyface (eg Martel, Steamboat)?

 

Did anyone else in the 70s work like Brisco? It's not just his motion and bumping, it's the whole move set: arm drag, hip toss, fireman carry takeover, drop kick, then up into the suplexes.

 

On top of that, his exaggerated expressions working a body part on the mat and his desperation in selling are both things you'd see someone like Martel do later.

 

From all the 70s I've seen I've not come across anyone else like that -- have you? He feels like a guy from a decade later dropped back in time.

[Mr. Lacelle]

I remember watching Don Muraco's shoot interview and he said he was most influenced by Brisco and then watching Barry Windham's shoot and he said he was mostly influenced by Muraco so his influence runs pretty deep considering the guys who have been influenced by Barry and it all goes back to Brisco.

[NintendoLogic]

On top of that, his exaggerated expressions working a body part on the mat and his desperation in selling are both things you'd see someone like Martel do later.

 

I always figured Martel got that from Buddy Rose.

[elliott]

I love Jack Brisco but I don't really see how he "invented 80s NWA babyfaces." Did Dusty Rhodes work at all like Jack Brisco? The Road Warriors? Exaggerated limb work and desperation selling aren't qualities unique to Jack Brisco. He was just really good at it. I agree Brisco was awesome and a master of his style. But it was a style of work that became passe' during the 80s.

[Loss]

Well, Bret Hart was still doing it in the 90s so I'm not quite sure that's true.

[elliott]

I agree with you there Loss. Bret definitely was. But do you think it would be fair to say Bret Hart was presented on commentary and by the promotion as an "old school" or "throwback" style wrestler? Was he part of the "New Generation?" (not trying to be a dick, I haven't watched that stuff in a long time and I know you have recently so I figure you'll have a better feel to it).

 

Bringing it back to Jack Brisco, I guess I'm not really seeing how he "invented 80s NWA babyface" when the major babyface stars of the 80s NWA didn't work at all like him. Nor do I think "exaggerated limb work"and "desperation selling" are ideas invented by or unique to Jack Brisco.

[shoe]

If it means anything Steamer said he stole the arm drag from Brisco on his DVD.

[JerryvonKramer]

I love Jack Brisco but I don't really see how he "invented 80s NWA babyfaces." Did Dusty Rhodes work at all like Jack Brisco? The Road Warriors? Exaggerated limb work and desperation selling aren't qualities unique to Jack Brisco. He was just really good at it. I agree Brisco was awesome and a master of his style. But it was a style of work that became passe' during the 80s.

I really had guys like Steamer and Martel in mind. Not sure how to word it. Jim Brunzell would be another one. Tito. Anyone who does a lot of arm drags, drop kicks and fiery comebacks. "Working babyface"? "blowjob babyface"? "Good-looking babyface"?

 

Just that the older generation of babyfaces like, say, Johnny Weaver didn't seem to work like that.

 

I guess we have a gap where so little of the 60s is on tape.

 

But seems to me that Brisco is to those faces what Ray Stevens is to the big bumping heels like Flair.

[elliott]

 

I love Jack Brisco but I don't really see how he "invented 80s NWA babyfaces." Did Dusty Rhodes work at all like Jack Brisco? The Road Warriors? Exaggerated limb work and desperation selling aren't qualities unique to Jack Brisco. He was just really good at it. I agree Brisco was awesome and a master of his style. But it was a style of work that became passe' during the 80s.

I really had guys like Steamer and Martel in mind. Not sure how to word it. Jim Brunzell would be another one. Tito. Anyone who does a lot of arm drags, drop kicks and fiery comebacks. "Working babyface"? "blowjob babyface"? "Good-looking babyface"?

 

Just that the older generation of babyfaces like, say, Johnny Weaver didn't seem to work like that.

 

I guess we have a gap where so little of the 60s is on tape.

 

But seems to me that Brisco is to those faces what Ray Stevens is to the big bumping heels like Flair.

 

 

The Ray Stevens anaolgy totally puts that comment into perspective for me. Completely get what you're saying now. I see the phrase "80s NWA Babyface" and my brain goes DUSTY. Thanks for clearing that up.

 

Back to why Brisco is so awesome now. Loss posted a really good Brisco vs Jumbo match from 76, and here's part 1 of another from 74 with a really young Jumbo you should watch if you haven't yet.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgUYaH7kKLg

[JerryvonKramer]

Major batch of Brisco today, and I don't see how there are 20 better workers than Jack Brisco.

 

I'd like to see someone make a case that there have been twenty better guys than him, because right now, less than half way through my viewing of him, he's looking like a lock for the top 20, maybe even top 15.

 

Guy has absolutely everything: fire, charisma, intensity, workrate, selling, bumping, great punches, great execution, great psychology, great crowd control. The guy is just the total package. The real deal.

 

I'd be interested to know what other people think of Brisco. I surely can't be alone in thinking he was just phenomenal.

[shoe]

In the SC poll I had him in my top 5. I think he's outstanding. I won't have him that high this time around. I can see him in my top 20.

[ohtani's jacket]

Well, you've definitely piqued my interest in Brisco, whom I don't have a strong opinion about. I will check out those matches soon.

[JerryvonKramer]

Tonight I ran through what I believe are all of Brisco's title defenses that exist on tape.

 

It's not a huge amount of footage, but enough to get a sense of how he was booked as champion and how he worked against different opponents, let me say something about each of those things:

 

1. It appears that Brisco was perceived as a "defensive champ", Terry Funk calls Brisco out on it after defeating him for the title, and numerous different commentators from some dude in Australia, to Solie, to Lance Russell mention that Brisco is "defensive". That's interesting, because it's not quite the same idea of what we think of as "bitch champ" (or whatever the PC-approved term is), but in practice the outcomes are quite similar. Time and again we see Brisco take a lot of punishment but come away with a flash pin or a cheap win. And fuck me do we see some cheap wins -- DQ after opponent doesn't acknowledge the five-count in a rope break is a new all-time lowest cheap win. Double KO for fuck's sake. Last minute countout. Ref reverses decision on a pin after spotting illegal foreign object. We're talking cheapest of the cheap. But Brisco didn't really work heel that much either. Some subtle heel touches here and there (like dumping a guy to the outside), but he's at worst a tweener in those matches. But he also worked as a fired up babyface if the opponent was a heel. And even if he was a face, his basic gameplan was still "defensive". Even if you take the booking philosphy and money reasons for booking the champ in that way out of it, kayfabe-wise, it does make sense for the champ to be defensive. You have to beat him, he doesn't have to beat you. That's the legacy of Thesz. And seeing Brisco around the horn, he had more than a bit of Thesz in him.

 

2. Brisco was basically chameleon-like in those matches tonight. He became whatever the opponent needed him to be. Against a young buck like Muraco in 74, he became the wily vet. Against the finesse of Carpentier, he brought grit. Against the sly heel tactics of Lawler or Bill Watts, he brought fire and integrity. Against the onslaught of Arion in Australia, he brought endurance and that ability to "hang in there". Against the big forearms of Valentine, he came back with his own elbows and forearms. Against Giant Baba, he brought a ground game. Against the bombs of Race, he brought ... his own bombs. Pretty amazing to see him morph into whatever the situation demands of him. I know I keep on saying it, but ... complete worker. And the Harley Race comparison is still the most pertinent one. Race went into St. Louis, Memphis, Florida, Australia, wherever, and he worked a Harley Race match. Doesn't matter the context, Race was working Race's match. Brisco went to all those places and worked whatever match they needed him to. I think that's as definitive a case as anyone could make for why Brisco was a superior work to Race -- and Race was one of the very best, but Brisco was elite level. I've talked about all his other qualities earlier in the thread, but "versatility and adaptability" would be right up there too.

 

Honestly, I wonder whether he was even better than Flair at adapting his style for the given opponent. Flair has a bit of Race in him for one, and even though he does give us many different styles, I think he only adapted his style for guys he respected and would give the muscle-heads the same match -- I've said it before, he always gives Sting the "cookie cutter" Flair match, which is the same as the match he gives Hawk, etc. Maybe it's because he was the babyface and heels were expected to lead back then, but I don't think there's such a thing as a standard "Brisco match", it depends entirely on the opponent.

[shoe]

I looked at Jack's tour of Japan from 79.

 

This is a tour of Japan for Jack Brisco in 1979. I'll edit it my thoughts when more matches come up. I'll take a look at the 1st one I watched.

Jack Brisco vs. Tatsumi Fujinami 4/27/79

This is kind of a dream match. Brisco the former NWA World Champion, and one of if not the best wrestlers in the U.S from the 70's. On another hand we have Tatsumi Fujinami one of the great workers of Japan in the 80's. It opens up with Jack going after the leg. Fujinami gets a rope break and works a headlock. We get a rope running spot that payoffs with a Fujinami drop kick. Back to the headlock that Brisco counters into a hammerlock. Brisco with a big elobow to the shoulder, follows up with a knee drop into the hammerlock. Brisco works over Fujinami in the corner. We get a rope break. Brisco with s headlock and a throw of Fujinami. Brisco goes for an Adominal stretch on the mat. A counter by Fujinami leads to a rope break. Fujinami goes after the arm. Jack is great at selling the arm. Fujinami moves Jack into a butterfly suplex, followed by a Norther Lights Suplex, and then a gut wrench suplex with Jack fighting each of them. A back drop by Fujinami. Jack gets a double leg take down. Fujinami counters into a head scissors, and then moves into a cravat. Atomic knee drop that looks like he got his back. A leg crank by Jack into the Figure 4. He goes for another one and is kicked outside. Slingshot dive by Fujinami. Jack with a outside in suplex. Fujinami goes for an Oklahoma role that Jack reverses for the win.

I'll go 2 3/4* on this.

 

Thoughts

 

I liked this match but it had flaws. The match is only a little bit past 10 minutes. So a lot of the work didn't get a chance to breath. When Brisco sold he was great. I felt he didn't get a chance to sell enough because it was go go go go. I felt the match had too many momentum changes. The big suplex flurry could have been better suited in the finishing stretch.

 

 

Jack Brisco vs. Antonio Inoki 5/10/79

 

Man this is sad. 8 years ago they had this classic. Here not even close. No more intricate mat work, no more battling for position.Man just sad. We get Inoki take about 90% of the match. We see Inoki work the arm. Then he goes to the leg later. His Indian Death Lock was pretty great. To me the best part of the match was Inoki had on his Indian Death Lock, Brisco gets the ropes and follows up with an attempted suplex but the damage to the leg causes him not to hold Inoki's weight. What also made this moment great was Brisco selling the leg prior to the suplex attempt. We get some more Inoki on top. He goes back to the Indian Death Lock. Brisco sells big. Inoki on top bombs away. He misses, and Brisco attempts a Figure 4 that Inoki rolls him up for 3. The finish was good on a bad match. 3/4*

• Like This

http://placetobenation.com/titans-of-wrestling/

 

 

This was clearly a step down from his stuff in Japan in 74 and 76. I feel him and Fujinami have a great match in them. I know Inoki and him have had one in the past. Brisco's rep as best U.S worker from the U.S in the 70's took a hit here. In my eyes Billy Robinson might be the best. I know he's from England but he should be classified as a U.S worker. The Destroyer has a case to the throne too. Bockwinkle 70's footage might be an issue. Buddy Rose is a dark horse. His 80's footage is another story. Race isn't a contender for me. Flair's lack of complete matches hurt him.Terry Funk has to be in the conversation too. Verne Gagne is another contender. I'm curious on where things shake out for me.

[JerryvonKramer]

I think it's one possible knock on Brisco that he so completely works to his opponent that you could say that if the opponent has a bad match, he's not going to carry them.

[goodhelmet]

Not a good argument if the opponent is Fujinami at this stage of his career.

[ohtani's jacket]

Didn't Destroyer also show signs of decline in the late 70s?

[shoe]

He did from my memory. I haven't watched any of those recently.