Ted DiBiase

[Wade Garrett]

Dibiase is a no brainer for my list. I liked watching him on Georgia TV in real time. I really liked him in Mid-South, especially as a heel. Don't mind the All-Japan stuff. Were there better US guys there? Sure.

 

Seen the little St. Louis stuff. The WWF stuff coulda been so much better in-ring in another company. Like JCP. Woulda preferred seeing him in JCP in 87 for sure. But that damn Million-Dollar Man shit was GOLD. That exact gimmick in JCP woulda been good enough to boot Flairs ass outta the Horsemen (turning him mega baby) replacing him with Dibiase.

 

Overall he did enough for me In Mid-South. When I lived in the territory (New Orleans) I saw him live and each time he delivered.

 

I'm also bias because I knew his sister for years out in the Wine Country. Had the pleasure of meeting him backstage at Superbrawl 97 in SF as well.

 

I don't recycle through a lot of shit I've already seen. But JCP and Mid-South are the two I have/do. Dibiase is a BIG reason why.

[Jimmy Redman]

In a way, he's kinda the greatest solid worker ever, or the worst great worker ever.

 

This is kind of where I'm at with Ted. I don't find anything wrong with him, but I also don't find anything outstanding about him either, save for the gimmick and skits and promos. It's a similar thing to Dusty really, where he was great out of the ring, but I don't find what I'm looking for in the ring. And it's not like he does anything wrong or I expect him to be different, it's just...he doesn't engage me in the ring at all.

 

I say this with a huge asterisk because I haven't seen as much Mid South as I'd like and I know that's supposed to be his best work. I like the Duggan feud a lot. I'd have to explore his Mid South work in order to rank him at all, to be honest, and he's not going to be a priority because again, there's nothing there that grabs me and draws me in. He's solid as hell mechanically but I just care so little about that as a metric.

[JerryvonKramer]

The combination of extremely sound fundamentals, psychology, ability to go with anyone and ability to get anyone over has become an underrated commodity. It is also relatively rare.

 

What interests me is that you say you don't value mechanics but then are extremely high on someone like AJ Styles. What do you value in Styles? His flash? His great matches? His ability to get something out of lesser workers? Wow factor?

 

Goes without saying that I think the comparisons with Brad Armstrong from El-P are way way off base.

[Loss]

I think he's a better comparison to Barry Windham.

[JerryvonKramer]

Windham had a better float over suplex and more opportunities to have five star matches with Ric Flair. Also probably a smudge more talented at base.

 

Ted had a better scoop powerslam and a better career overall.

 

Shakes out like this for me:

 

Ted DiBiase

Basic (offense, selling, psychology) 2/3 3/3 2/3 = 8

Intangibles 6

Great matches 6

Length of Peak 6 (79-88)

Ability to work different styles / roles 6

Variety 5

 

+1 ability to work babyface

+1 ability to work a different gimmick (Million Dollar Man)

+1 ability to work brawls

+1 ability to work gimmick matches

+2 ability to get over in multiple markets (Amarillo, WWF, GCW, Mid-South, Japan)

 

Ability to work different styles / roles rating = 6

 

1. JYD, 2. Freebirds, 3. Magnum TA, 4. Brad Armstrong, 5. Duggan, 6. Flair, 7. Murdoch, 8. Tenryu, 9. Jumbo, 10. Choshu / Yatsu, 11. Hogan, 12. Savage, 13. Virgil, 14. Jake, 15. Dusty / Dustin Rhodes, 16. Steiners, 17. Harley Race

 

Variety = 17 opponents = 8

 

35

 

Barry Windham

Basic (offense, selling, psychology) 3/3 3/3 3/3 (+1 for float-over suplex) = 10

Intangibles 3

Great matches 6

Length of Peak 85-93 = 8 years = 5

 

+1 ability to work heel

+1 ability to work gimmick matches

+1 ability to work tags

+1 ability to get over in multiple markets (Florida, JCP, WWF)

 

Ability to work different styles / roles = 4

 

1. Flair, 2. Luger, 3. Arn, 4. Tully, 5. Pillman, 6. Sting / Steiners, 7. Murdoch, 8. Midnight Express, 8. Steamboat, 9. 2 Cold Scorpio, 10. Regal

 

Variety = 10 opponents = 5

 

33

 

In practice the two-point gap might result in a difference of about ten to fifteen places.

[Dylan Waco]

I don't think Ted sniffs Windham.

 

I think Windham was better mechanically. I prefer his selling to Ted's by a fairly large margin as I think Windham is an all time great in that regard whether it's selling exhaustion, dramatic bumping and facial expressions off of a big spot, selling from underneath as a babyface, or more reactive selling as a heel. I also think he's a much bumper than. I think he was a genius at working within a hierarchical framework which isn't really something I see in Ted or very many other U.S. workers during that era to be fair. I'd have Windham at or near the top of the best tag team workers in wrestling history. I think he has a much bigger resume of good and great matches than Ted. In fact Windham may even have better matches in Ted's top promotions (Mid-South and WWF) if you take out gimmick matches. I thought Windham was better than Flair in their best matches together so the idea that he got a huge benefit from working opposite Flair doesn't work on me. Even if it did I wouldn't be effected that much, because if Windham's career didn't include a single Flair match I'd safely rate him over Ted based on what I've seen, and I don't think Ted ever had a run in his career at the level of early 90's Barry when Flair was a non-factor in his career entirely.

 

Ted really has no shot at my list, unless I get a bug up my ass to watch a bunch of his vaunted Mid-South run and that's unlikely because the last time I went down that road I thought it was more in the "good and entertaining" camp than the "truly great" camp and it would have to be almost completely "truly great" to make up for his disappointing AJPW run, and virtually non-existent WWF "resume" of empty but inoffensive matches.

 

All that said I kind of agree with the idea that Ted is a natural comparison to Barry because of their size and backgrounds. It's just that Barry completely laps Ted both in terms of input and output.

[JerryvonKramer]

I think Dylan is overly low on Ted as opposed to me being overly high.

 

But then I guess I would say that. It's fair to say we look for different things. Although I am not entirely clear on what Dylan looks for exactly.

[Dylan Waco]

I don't think I have a uniform standard because I see different wrestlers as requiring different things depending on setting. I'm also rigidly opposed to standardization and categorization on ideological grounds (which will sound nuts and maybe is given how "listy" I am), so I can't get into the habit of counting good matches, let alone taking the formula approach you have though I am glad it works for you.

 

I think what hurts Ted most in my eyes is the fact that he does appear to have a lot of the tools I would look for in a wrestler, but so little in the way of output that I consider high level. The fact that I could point to more Mikey Whipwreck matches I really love than Ted matches is a major indictment given their relative skill levels.

[JerryvonKramer]

It's fair to say most of them are in Mid-South, and it's also fair to say that a recurring theme in this thread has been that people haven't watched a lot of Mid-South recently. I also maintain Savage series is criminally underrated by all in terms of two awesome workers who had great chemistry and heat while a promotion was hot.

 

One legit criticism I would make of Ted is that he does have a dearth of LONG matches. Windham does smoke him there.

 

That's the thing missing from his CV, it's that match where he goes 30 minutes with someone else really good and delivers a classic. It isn't there, I've looked for it. The closest we get are Hansen tags in AJ, which go 30 minutes.

 

Almost all of Ted's best matches come in around the 10-15 mark. And he seldom worked longer than 20 minutes, except for that one Royal Rumble. I wonder why that was.

[Jimmy Redman]

The combination of extremely sound fundamentals, psychology, ability to go with anyone and ability to get anyone over has become an underrated commodity. It is also relatively rare.

 

What interests me is that you say you don't value mechanics but then are extremely high on someone like AJ Styles. What do you value in Styles? His flash? His great matches? His ability to get something out of lesser workers? Wow factor?

 

Goes without saying that I think the comparisons with Brad Armstrong from El-P are way way off base.

 

On the first point, my counter to that is that all of those fundamentals don't add up to anything to me if you're boring. I appreciate that as a worker those are good skills to have, and skills that other wrestlers and offices would appreciate in him, but to me it means nothing because I'm a viewer, not a worker. I care about what appears on my screen, not how many boxes a guy can tick.

 

Physical proficiency just has so little to do with great wrestling to me. Anyone can be mechanically sound and athletic enough to go through moves and spots and bumps, but it won't necessarily make for a great match because great wrestling is about the story, the emotion, as you say the wow factor. Mechanics mean nothing to me in and of themselves.

 

Of course this is all stated with the huge asterisk that sometimes, there are situations where physical proficiency is a significant positive (or negative) and thus comes into my consideration. A guy like, I dunno...Tamura, who is so silky smooth and ridiculously talented that it's a big part of his appeal. Or a guy like Slaughter who not only bumps well but takes insane lunatic bumps that make him look dead. But it has to be something...special. I can't say "he's a good working heel, bumps well, sells well, solid in the ring" and nothing else and get excited, because again, ticking those boxes does nothing for me in and of itself.

 

If I had happened to have seen a bunch of Ted in Mid South (and I may do so, you never know, I've found my watching groove heading down the stretch) and found a bunch of his matches awesome or bunch of things he did in matches awesome, we'd be having a different conversation. From what I've seen so far - the Duggan feud and his WWF run - I've found Ted extremely solid in the ring, but not really capable of much more outside of the Duggan matches. I need more than what he's showing me.

 

I get that he's your fave and he has skills that you value highly, but he doesn't for me. He's fine. That's all. At this point there are probably 100 other guys I rate more. But I mean, we're talking about him being in my 110s so it's not like he's far off the cut as it is.

 

On your question about AJ, my answer is...yes, I guess? To all of those? I guess a part of it is mechanics, if you like, in the sense that he is incredibly good physically, takes maniac bumps and hits his offense really well. But it's also so much more than that - his babyface fire, his timing of big spots and comebacks, his ability to get his ass kicked and sell, the dual role he plays so well as juniors ace/heavyweight underdog, and his ability to rise above a spotty environment to make his matches and spots mean something in context. He's a great tag worker, great gimmick worker, had an incredible year in 2005, a lot of good years on top of that, and a myriad of great matches that hold up extremely well even though most of them took place in a shithole like TNA.

 

It's funny, you say a knock is not having long matches, but to me that is a net positive because I'd much rather sit through a 15 minute match than a 30 minute match every single day of the week. (Why must matches go so long!?!? I don't have the patience for this anymore!)

[JerryvonKramer]

Try the Magnum TA matches, match with Flair and stuff with Murdoch after it.

 

I think Ted works with real intensity and is far from boring. I'd be interested to see you review the Magnum TA matches just to get a sense of how you see things.

[Jimmy Redman]

For you I will!

 

Is this stuff I can find online?

[JerryvonKramer]

They basically had two matches on the same day, one in Okalhoma City, and one in Tulsa.

 

I like the Tulsa match a smidge more and have it at ****3/4, but can't seem to find it online. The OKC match seems like it is on youtube, but 10 mins seems short and I wonder if it is cut. I will see about getting these online later on.

 

I would also point to this match as an example of Ted having intensity in his work. It's him as a firey young babyface against the incredible Pat Patterson:

 

 

I mean look at those knee drops on the arm!

[JerryvonKramer]

I'm in a much better mood today, so can respond to this properly.

 

I don't think Ted sniffs Windham.

 

I think Windham was better mechanically. I prefer his selling to Ted's by a fairly large margin as I think Windham is an all time great in that regard whether it's selling exhaustion, dramatic bumping and facial expressions off of a big spot, selling from underneath as a babyface, or more reactive selling as a heel. I also think he's a much bumper than. I think he was a genius at working within a hierarchical framework which isn't really something I see in Ted or very many other U.S. workers during that era to be fair. I'd have Windham at or near the top of the best tag team workers in wrestling history. I think he has a much bigger resume of good and great matches than Ted. In fact Windham may even have better matches in Ted's top promotions (Mid-South and WWF) if you take out gimmick matches. I thought Windham was better than Flair in their best matches together so the idea that he got a huge benefit from working opposite Flair doesn't work on me. Even if it did I wouldn't be effected that much, because if Windham's career didn't include a single Flair match I'd safely rate him over Ted based on what I've seen, and I don't think Ted ever had a run in his career at the level of early 90's Barry when Flair was a non-factor in his career entirely.

 

Ted really has no shot at my list, unless I get a bug up my ass to watch a bunch of his vaunted Mid-South run and that's unlikely because the last time I went down that road I thought it was more in the "good and entertaining" camp than the "truly great" camp and it would have to be almost completely "truly great" to make up for his disappointing AJPW run, and virtually non-existent WWF "resume" of empty but inoffensive matches.

I think the claim that Barry Windham's early 90s run is better than Ted's 80s Mid-South run is really stretching it. And would go against not only conventional wisdom but also my very recent experiences of watching both runs.

 

I'm not sure if anything else needs to be said, but I've been watching them both side-by-side -- 80s Mid-South as part of my ongoing thread, early 90s Windham for WTBBP.

 

Do you really think Windham has a great run in 91, 92 or 93? When? How? I think I missed this when I first read the post. Are you really putting NWA champ 93 Windham over peak Ted? Seems nuts.

 

Ted has a lot of very good to great matches in the 80s. See the aforementioned thread for reviews of lots of them.

 

As I've said on WTBBP many times, Windham had a habit of not bringing his A-game to PPV matches and seemingly a lot of his best performances are buried on TV shows. I honestly can't think of what you could be referring to in the "early 90s run" though. He has that match with Arn that I LOVE from 92. But I can't really think off the top of my head of too many stand outs.

[Matt D]

Everytime Parv brings up Conventional Wisdom, Maurice Tillet's ears fall off.

[JerryvonKramer]

Everytime Parv brings up Conventional Wisdom, Maurice Tillet's ears fall off.

This is an extremely unhelpful contribution to this discussion, and I don't really appreciate it.

 

You've also taken us over the page, which I don't appreciate either, because my previous post is now buried.

[BigBadMick]

I'm in a much better mood today, so can respond to this properly.

 

I don't think Ted sniffs Windham.

 

I think Windham was better mechanically. I prefer his selling to Ted's by a fairly large margin as I think Windham is an all time great in that regard whether it's selling exhaustion, dramatic bumping and facial expressions off of a big spot, selling from underneath as a babyface, or more reactive selling as a heel. I also think he's a much bumper than. I think he was a genius at working within a hierarchical framework which isn't really something I see in Ted or very many other U.S. workers during that era to be fair. I'd have Windham at or near the top of the best tag team workers in wrestling history. I think he has a much bigger resume of good and great matches than Ted. In fact Windham may even have better matches in Ted's top promotions (Mid-South and WWF) if you take out gimmick matches. I thought Windham was better than Flair in their best matches together so the idea that he got a huge benefit from working opposite Flair doesn't work on me. Even if it did I wouldn't be effected that much, because if Windham's career didn't include a single Flair match I'd safely rate him over Ted based on what I've seen, and I don't think Ted ever had a run in his career at the level of early 90's Barry when Flair was a non-factor in his career entirely.

 

Ted really has no shot at my list, unless I get a bug up my ass to watch a bunch of his vaunted Mid-South run and that's unlikely because the last time I went down that road I thought it was more in the "good and entertaining" camp than the "truly great" camp and it would have to be almost completely "truly great" to make up for his disappointing AJPW run, and virtually non-existent WWF "resume" of empty but inoffensive matches.

I think the claim that Barry Windham's early 90s run is better than Ted's 80s Mid-South run is really stretching it. And would go against not only conventional wisdom but also my very recent experiences of watching both runs.

 

I'm not sure if anything else needs to be said, but I've been watching them both side-by-side -- 80s Mid-South as part of my ongoing thread, early 90s Windham for WTBBP.

 

Do you really think Windham has a great run in 91, 92 or 93? When? How? I think I missed this when I first read the post. Are you really putting NWA champ 93 Windham over peak Ted? Seems nuts.

 

Ted has a lot of very good to great matches in the 80s. See the aforementioned thread for reviews of lots of them.

 

As I've said on WTBBP many times, Windham had a habit of not bringing his A-game to PPV matches and seemingly a lot of his best performances are buried on TV shows. I honestly can't think of what you could be referring to in the "early 90s run" though. He has that match with Arn that I LOVE from 92. But I can't really think off the top of my head of too many stand outs.

 

JvK, I know you're a massive fan of WCW in 1992 - where would you put Windham in a list of WCW's best workers that year?

[Matt D]

 

Everytime Parv brings up Conventional Wisdom, Maurice Tillet's ears fall off.

This is an extremely unhelpful contribution to this discussion, and I don't really appreciate it.

You've also taken us over the page, which I don't appreciate either, because my previous post is now buried.

 

 

Then stop mentioning conventional wisdom as if it matters. It's your lifeline when it comes to whining about people not properly appreciating Dibiase and I don't think it matters to a single person here other than you. We watch. We judge. We rate. Is there any other wrestler in this process that anyone is using "conventional wisdom" as a defense on?

[Jetlag]

The combination of extremely sound fundamentals, psychology, ability to go with anyone and ability to get anyone over has become an underrated commodity. It is also relatively rare.

 

 

Is it really? A lot of old school workers have these abilities. In fact, the combination of these is almost a must have for anyone in order to get into my Top 100. I'd say that right now there are 70 workers locked for my list who all have what you describe here and then I've got another 50 workers battling for the last 30 spots who aren't much worse.. I mean, since you don't seem to be considering post-2000 workers at all, you obviously have a smaller pool of talent to choose from... and granted, I like Ted a lot, but this argument about Ted being a rare combo (a total package?) isn't going to make me rank him ahead of 20 other workers.

[JerryvonKramer]

 

I'm in a much better mood today, so can respond to this properly.

 

I don't think Ted sniffs Windham.

 

I think Windham was better mechanically. I prefer his selling to Ted's by a fairly large margin as I think Windham is an all time great in that regard whether it's selling exhaustion, dramatic bumping and facial expressions off of a big spot, selling from underneath as a babyface, or more reactive selling as a heel. I also think he's a much bumper than. I think he was a genius at working within a hierarchical framework which isn't really something I see in Ted or very many other U.S. workers during that era to be fair. I'd have Windham at or near the top of the best tag team workers in wrestling history. I think he has a much bigger resume of good and great matches than Ted. In fact Windham may even have better matches in Ted's top promotions (Mid-South and WWF) if you take out gimmick matches. I thought Windham was better than Flair in their best matches together so the idea that he got a huge benefit from working opposite Flair doesn't work on me. Even if it did I wouldn't be effected that much, because if Windham's career didn't include a single Flair match I'd safely rate him over Ted based on what I've seen, and I don't think Ted ever had a run in his career at the level of early 90's Barry when Flair was a non-factor in his career entirely.

 

Ted really has no shot at my list, unless I get a bug up my ass to watch a bunch of his vaunted Mid-South run and that's unlikely because the last time I went down that road I thought it was more in the "good and entertaining" camp than the "truly great" camp and it would have to be almost completely "truly great" to make up for his disappointing AJPW run, and virtually non-existent WWF "resume" of empty but inoffensive matches.

I think the claim that Barry Windham's early 90s run is better than Ted's 80s Mid-South run is really stretching it. And would go against not only conventional wisdom but also my very recent experiences of watching both runs.

 

I'm not sure if anything else needs to be said, but I've been watching them both side-by-side -- 80s Mid-South as part of my ongoing thread, early 90s Windham for WTBBP.

 

Do you really think Windham has a great run in 91, 92 or 93? When? How? I think I missed this when I first read the post. Are you really putting NWA champ 93 Windham over peak Ted? Seems nuts.

 

Ted has a lot of very good to great matches in the 80s. See the aforementioned thread for reviews of lots of them.

 

As I've said on WTBBP many times, Windham had a habit of not bringing his A-game to PPV matches and seemingly a lot of his best performances are buried on TV shows. I honestly can't think of what you could be referring to in the "early 90s run" though. He has that match with Arn that I LOVE from 92. But I can't really think off the top of my head of too many stand outs.

 

JvK, I know you're a massive fan of WCW in 1992 - where would you put Windham in a list of WCW's best workers that year?

 

Below Rude, Steamboat, Arn, Dustin and Vader for sure.

 

It would be a close run thing between him and the next set down, which would include Austin and Sting (in his career year).

 

The claim from Dylan is a real head-scratcher for me. Windham feels kinda lost and floating around in 1990. He has a decent match with Luger that year. Some good stuff with Pillman on TV in 91. String of very good tags vs. Dangerous Alliance in 92, again on TV. The awesome Arn match. And I could probably leave the stuff vs. Gordy and Williams from later in the year.

 

Into 93 and the stuff with Flair is disapponting. I recall the Regal and Scorpion matches being good.

 

But really I don't think it all adds up to being better than Ted's signature run in Mid-South. And I'd probably take Ted's 88 over Windham's 1990 or 1991.

 

I suspect that Dylan is probably making those Dustin tags vs. DA from the 92 TV do a lot of work in his argument.

[JerryvonKramer]

 

The combination of extremely sound fundamentals, psychology, ability to go with anyone and ability to get anyone over has become an underrated commodity. It is also relatively rare.

Is it really? A lot of old school workers have these abilities. In fact, the combination of these is almost a must have for anyone in order to get into my Top 100. I'd say that right now there are 70 workers locked for my list who all have what you describe here and then I've got another 50 workers battling for the last 30 spots who aren't much worse.. I mean, since you don't seem to be considering post-2000 workers at all, you obviously have a smaller pool of talent to choose from... and granted, I like Ted a lot, but this argument about Ted being a rare combo (a total package?) isn't going to make me rank him ahead of 20 other workers.

 

It is rare because those guys you are talking about are ... the 100 greatest workers of all time. If you ONLY watch good wrestling, the best of stuff from the past etc, then it won't seem that rare. But if you watch the crap too, I think it is clear that not every guy had those talents.

 

You can pick out any card and maybe there will be one or two guys on that card who have this combination of skills. And they will more than likely be the best workers on that card.

[WingedEagle]

The DA tags are fun but I don't see how anything in the 90s makes or breaks Windham's case. Just not enough relevance there unless you're eager to punish someone for their post-prime work.

[BigBadMick]

 

 

I'm in a much better mood today, so can respond to this properly.

 

I don't think Ted sniffs Windham.

 

I think Windham was better mechanically. I prefer his selling to Ted's by a fairly large margin as I think Windham is an all time great in that regard whether it's selling exhaustion, dramatic bumping and facial expressions off of a big spot, selling from underneath as a babyface, or more reactive selling as a heel. I also think he's a much bumper than. I think he was a genius at working within a hierarchical framework which isn't really something I see in Ted or very many other U.S. workers during that era to be fair. I'd have Windham at or near the top of the best tag team workers in wrestling history. I think he has a much bigger resume of good and great matches than Ted. In fact Windham may even have better matches in Ted's top promotions (Mid-South and WWF) if you take out gimmick matches. I thought Windham was better than Flair in their best matches together so the idea that he got a huge benefit from working opposite Flair doesn't work on me. Even if it did I wouldn't be effected that much, because if Windham's career didn't include a single Flair match I'd safely rate him over Ted based on what I've seen, and I don't think Ted ever had a run in his career at the level of early 90's Barry when Flair was a non-factor in his career entirely.

 

Ted really has no shot at my list, unless I get a bug up my ass to watch a bunch of his vaunted Mid-South run and that's unlikely because the last time I went down that road I thought it was more in the "good and entertaining" camp than the "truly great" camp and it would have to be almost completely "truly great" to make up for his disappointing AJPW run, and virtually non-existent WWF "resume" of empty but inoffensive matches.

I think the claim that Barry Windham's early 90s run is better than Ted's 80s Mid-South run is really stretching it. And would go against not only conventional wisdom but also my very recent experiences of watching both runs.

 

I'm not sure if anything else needs to be said, but I've been watching them both side-by-side -- 80s Mid-South as part of my ongoing thread, early 90s Windham for WTBBP.

 

Do you really think Windham has a great run in 91, 92 or 93? When? How? I think I missed this when I first read the post. Are you really putting NWA champ 93 Windham over peak Ted? Seems nuts.

 

Ted has a lot of very good to great matches in the 80s. See the aforementioned thread for reviews of lots of them.

 

As I've said on WTBBP many times, Windham had a habit of not bringing his A-game to PPV matches and seemingly a lot of his best performances are buried on TV shows. I honestly can't think of what you could be referring to in the "early 90s run" though. He has that match with Arn that I LOVE from 92. But I can't really think off the top of my head of too many stand outs.

 

JvK, I know you're a massive fan of WCW in 1992 - where would you put Windham in a list of WCW's best workers that year?

 

Below Rude, Steamboat, Arn, Dustin and Vader for sure.

 

It would be a close run thing between him and the next set down, which would include Austin and Sting (in his career year).

 

The claim from Dylan is a real head-scratcher for me. Windham feels kinda lost and floating around in 1990. He has a decent match with Luger that year. Some good stuff with Pillman on TV in 91. String of very good tags vs. Dangerous Alliance in 92, again on TV. The awesome Arn match. And I could probably leave the stuff vs. Gordy and Williams from later in the year.

 

Into 93 and the stuff with Flair is disapponting. I recall the Regal and Scorpion matches being good.

 

But really I don't think it all adds up to being better than Ted's signature run in Mid-South. And I'd probably take Ted's 88 over Windham's 1990 or 1991.

 

I suspect that Dylan is probably making those Dustin tags vs. DA from the 92 TV do a lot of work in his argument.

 

Ok, that's joint 6th in a really strong year for that promotion then.

 

How about doing the same for DiBiase in Mid-South (you pick a year)? And maybe a statement about how the quality of Mid-South's roster measures up to WCW 92.

[KB8]

The DA tags are fun but I don't see how anything in the 90s makes or breaks Windham's case. Just not enough relevance there unless you're eager to punish someone for their post-prime work.

 

I would say there's absolutely stuff in the 90s that adds to Windham's case, and substantially at that.

 

Horsemen v Doom from Starrcade '90

The Pillman feud in '91

A litany of good/very good/great matches in '92 that Barry is a big part of

The Regal match from 4/93 and the Scorpio match from the June Clash

 

There's a good deal of Windham stuff from the early 90s off the top of my head. And it's not like he was only there as luggage in any of it. Late 90s Windham/WWF Stalker is probably the 90s stuff I'd say is inconsequential, but even then there's some fun tag stuff in '99. Windham has a shot at my top 30, but without the 90s stuff he certainly wouldn't be.

[JerryvonKramer]

Was it off the top of your head K8 or from my post just above which lists exactly the same stuff? lol

 

I would like to hold off listing out DiBiase stuff K8, until I finish my 80s Catchup rewatch of the Murdoch series, and I'm currently in the middle of a bunch of Williams / Ted tags, which is a pretty underrated team -- underrated on PWO that is, not elsewhere in the fandom.