Your ideas for heels that would get over today

[tim]

 

Parv's idea probably wouldn't work in WWE, as most of the WWE audience aren't nerds, aren't using social media much, don't have a twitter account and don't play video games. It could work on the indy scene I suppose.

 

Yeah, how do you anger 40-50 year old men that refuse to spend money?

 

 

I guess that's where the feminist heel comes in!

[Matt D]

Yeah, how do you anger 40-50 year old men that refuse to spend money? That's most of WWE's audience.

 

By saying 9.99 over and over again?

[goodhelmet]

[goodhelmet]

1. He's Canadian

2. He absolutely looks like he would get his ass kicked if anyone ever got their hands on him.

3. He can have any girl he wants.

4. He doesn't know how to stop himself from being an asshole.

[Loss]

That reminds me that Jillian Hall would have been awesome if she wasn't so obviously singing badly on purpose. Imagine if she was almost - but not quite - good.

[JerryvonKramer]

Parv's idea probably wouldn't work in WWE, as most of the WWE audience aren't nerds, aren't using social media much, don't have a twitter account and don't play video games.

They aren't / don't?

[shoe]

That Biebier, I have a friend who's a local celebrity in ATX said during SXSW that a big music act is playing at Bangers as a surprise. So I got there right up front. Then I start noticing a bunch of young girls with parents. Out walked that Bieber. I was so angry.

[Loss]

 

Parv's idea probably wouldn't work in WWE, as most of the WWE audience aren't nerds, aren't using social media much, don't have a twitter account and don't play video games.

They aren't / don't?

 

 

We've entered interesting times where the live audiences don't really represent the WWE Universe as a whole. Even live crowds for TV tapings are much different than live crowds for house shows. It's tough to navigate it all.

[TRMD]

If WWE were to plant leaks on dirt sheets about a guy who is politicking for his spot and is holding others down through his real life friendship with HHH. Of course, they never mention that on camera. Then just give him an average heel gimmick and make sure he's not too good at it. Because smarks cheer what they think is good. Heel or Face.

 

Have him go over a majority of the time. Clean. Over guys like Bryan, Ziggler, Ambrose, and Cesaro. Give him the strap in a purposely just "good" match against someone like Bryan. So fans can bitch that even Bryan can only drag something watchable out of him.

 

Also, he can never, ever wrestle in the Indies. He also has to have the "look".

 

You've got yourself the most hated guy in the business.

 

And I just now noticed that I kinda explained HHH.

[JerryvonKramer]

 

 

Parv's idea probably wouldn't work in WWE, as most of the WWE audience aren't nerds, aren't using social media much, don't have a twitter account and don't play video games.

They aren't / don't?

 

We've entered interesting times where the live audiences don't really represent the WWE Universe as a whole. Even live crowds for TV tapings are much different than live crowds for house shows. It's tough to navigate it all.

 

But surely you have to play to the live crowd no?

 

I mean fuck they plug twitter and WWE2k15 enough.

[Loss]

Yeah, if it's not clear already, I do think it's worth clarifying to everyone that we're specifically talking about how to make live audiences on episodes of Monday Night RAW and pay-per-views boo wrestlers earnestly, and that's pretty much the scope of it.

[Superstar Sleeze]

"Heels" don't really work anymore. If they're good at what they do, people will cheer them. And "X-Pac heat" IS heat, but it's still not good.

 

The answer is to do away with the need for the good guy/bad guy dynamic. Either in this or another thread, someone talked about the NJPW "post-modern" dynamic where, for the most part, there are no traditional good guys and bad guys, just normal personalities who fall somewhere on a spectrum. There's no reason short of a lack of imagination that the same couldn't be applied in North America. ECW touched on that a bit, but not as much as they could have/should have.

"At the end of the day, someone has to make a comeback, who is that going to be?" - Kevin Nash on why faces and heels need to exist. New Japan has always sort of had neutral characters. Who was the face/heel in the Three Musketeers matches before Chono's heel turn. Then again New Japan relied more on invading forces (Vader, Tenryu and Takada) kinda like the Bullet Club hmmm...

 

Heels can work. Nobody likes a chickenshit. If everyone was not worried about being a badass and showed a bit of ass that would get people riled up, but that person would need to get his heat back on promos and win occasionally. Also, I think if you had a really over babyface and someone did something really violent to him that could get over. It worked for Ambrose and Rollins, but if Rollins got real visceral about it that would have really helped. More cowards and more violence, violent cowards would be a real plus!

 

Also I think something that come close to tapping into, but have not gone all the way on is the sense of entitlement versus deserving it. Like when Tebow had the crazy winning streak, I think a lot of the backlash came from the fact that people did not think he deserved it. In a similar vein, wrestling fans do not think Cena or Orton earned their position. It is a dangerous line to cross, but I do not know how to fashion a character out of it yet.

 

Also Heath Slater should be pushed to the moon because he would be the best old school big bumping chump heel of the modern era.

[Tim Evans]

A foreigner like Rusev. Especially a Muslim.

 

Good Helmet has the right idea. I remember when they brought in Kevin Federline and he was really hated..

[JerryvonKramer]

I would like to see the heel I'm talking about call out a fat teenager in a black hoodie carrying a Nintendo DS. Maybe a pair of glasses on.

 

And literally kick the crap out of him. Then grab the mic and as he's laying in stomps saying shit like the following as each stomp connects:

 

"Your status updates don't mean anything!"

 

"No one cares about your twitter account kid!"

 

"Your video games are lame!"

 

And as he's writhing around, crying on the floor, the heel drops an elbow on him. Grabs the DS and smashes it over his head.

 

"Your parents don't love you!"

 

"No one could love you because you're worthless!"

 

"Your whole generation is WORTHLESS!"

 

"You should be OUT THERE! In the sunshine. You fat. Worthless. GEEK"

 

-------

 

Fast forward a week and he's sticking another nerd kid's head down the toilet and flushing it. Takes a twenty dollar bill from out of the kid's pocket.

 

"What's this then kid? You been saving up for another one of your LAME video games?"

 

He rips up the twenty dollar bill. Then sticks the kids head down the toilet again.

 

I cannot believe a modern audience would cheer that.

[Superstar Sleeze]

I still believe there is a lot of money in the sensational feminist gimmick. Hassan at one point wasn't saying anything extreme and was talking about how he just wants to live in America and how things changed after 9/11 and how it wasn't fare. He was one of WWE's biggest heels at the time. I think the same type of heat would be generated by this feminist character I have in mind. Again this character wouldn't say ' I HATE MEN!' or be anywhere in the vein of the Spice Girls 'Girl Power'. Instead she will be the type who will tell Daniel Bryan not to say 'hello' to her as its sexual harrasment and try to work to get him fired over it. She will be the type who while having a plesant coversation with Darren Young will get on her soap box if he calls her 'man' or 'dude'. She will have op-eds on WWE.com about how men aren't allowed to approach her unless she gives the go ahead, etc.

 

The gimmick would be extrememly annoying. Who is the face in all of this? Someone like Brie Bella. While the extreme feminist is trying to impose her view and ways in the WWE- Brie Bella comes out to talk rationally. Brie would champion things such as "saying hello isn't a bad thing", etc. etc. This character can REALLY tap into misogyny, misandry, gynocentricism, benevolent sexism, etc. and would begin a lot of social discussion with the audience as people would be split on her. The few that will cheer her will be drowned out by the millions who boo her. I can't believe its 2014 and WWE hasn't done a crazy feminist gimmick.

Bonus points if she constantly yammers about microaggressions. SMW kinda did this with Tammy loving Hilary early on. I actually really like this idea. Of course, the key is to pair this with the appropriate babyface female to establish people don't hate you because you are a woman it is because you are an asshole. It would be a delicate balancing act, but I think it would work well. Also how great would it be if she had a pretty boy as her charge and was just objectifying and using him for his body. Good shit, brutha.

[Superstar Sleeze]

 

 

Parv's idea probably wouldn't work in WWE, as most of the WWE audience aren't nerds, aren't using social media much, don't have a twitter account and don't play video games.

They aren't / don't?

 

 

We've entered interesting times where the live audiences don't really represent the WWE Universe as a whole. Even live crowds for TV tapings are much different than live crowds for house shows. It's tough to navigate it all.

 

I think RAW/PPV have a lot of smart marks and internet nerds at them at least in Boston, who were in the 20s/30s and a good deal of families. The house show I attended was almost all families. I think there is a pretty big nerd contingent in the Northeast and Chicago. I have not clue who attends the shit in the West Coast because it seems like no one gives a fuck. I usually prefer Southern crowds because they are hot and usually cheer accordingly. A wrestler intentionally trying to get over with the audience to ride Daniel Bryan's coattails as a hipster would be reviled by everyone. Imagine some low-rent nothing happening midcarder growing out a beard and his hair and trying to rip off Daniel Bryan. Then have the Authority (too bad they are gone) give him their stamp of approval. Corporate sponsored underdog. You can't beat him so you create your own. That would have been awesome!

[JerryvonKramer]

A hipster. Maybe it's a gimmick being done on the indies somewhere, but I haven't seen it. Ironic mustache, V-Neck t-shirt, a vintage wardrobe drenched in irony, rides to the ring on a fixed gear...you get the idea. Whenever his spots get over, he stops doing them. Whenever his entrance music stops being obscure, he changes it. Chokes his opponents with his scarf, gets the win by hitting people with his bike lock or a can of craft beer, etc.

Terrific!!!

[DMJ]

I'm glad Superstar Sleaze mentioned Seth Rollins because, while I'm not going to say he's the best heel in the business or anything, I *do* think that his turn worked well even though he almost should get more cheers because he wrestles a fan-friendly style (fancy moves), has the indy scene cred, and is regarded as fresh...

 

But he turned his back on his best friend. He sold out. He took a shortcut. I think he's proof that you can still build heels based on simple premises, especially using the "chickenshit" route. I also think it helps when you take a heel and pair him up with a guy that's actually over as a face (Ambrose and Ziggler rather than Cena or Sheamus, who a portion of the audience vocally dislikes). If you put Lesnar against Cena, the crowd is going to be split...but against Ambrose, Bryan, Ziggler, hell, even Mizdow or Ryder, Lesnar's bullying will get heat.

[TRMD]

I would like to see the heel I'm talking about call out a fat teenager in a black hoodie carrying a Nintendo DS. Maybe a pair of glasses on.

 

And literally kick the crap out of him. Then grab the mic and as he's laying in stomps saying shit like the following as each stomp connects:

 

"Your status updates don't mean anything!"

 

"No one cares about your twitter account kid!"

 

"Your video games are lame!"

 

And as he's writhing around, crying on the floor, the heel drops an elbow on him. Grabs the DS and smashes it over his head.

 

"Your parents don't love you!"

 

"No one could love you because you're worthless!"

 

"Your whole generation is WORTHLESS!"

 

"You should be OUT THERE! In the sunshine. You fat. Worthless. GEEK"

 

-------

 

Fast forward a week and he's sticking another nerd kid's head down the toilet and flushing it. Takes a twenty dollar bill from out of the kid's pocket.

 

"What's this then kid? You been saving up for another one of your LAME video games?"

 

He rips up the twenty dollar bill. Then sticks the kids head down the toilet again.

 

I cannot believe a modern audience would cheer that.

 

If the segments were entertaining and the guy was a solid wrestler, he would be cheered. Or at least not booed.

 

The problem is, a good portion of wrestling fans don't really take offense to something that they know is written to offend them. Unless it's almost, kinda, somewhat, in a way misogynist or racist.

 

The 2 most hated heels in the company are HHH and the Miz. HHH for a mixture of on screen character and off screen reality and Miz because he has a very punchable face and he is pretty good, but not THAT good at anything that has to do with wrestling. In most fans minds, at least.

[JerryvonKramer]

Here's another heel:

 

"The Vegetarian"

 

Not only is he always awkward when ordering meals and things, he goes out of his way to stop others eating meat.

 

Picture the old APA hanging around and about to tuck into a hot dog each. The vegetarian pops in and takes their hot dogs from them.

 

His finisher could be called "Sustainable development".

[JerryvonKramer]

 

I would like to see the heel I'm talking about call out a fat teenager in a black hoodie carrying a Nintendo DS. Maybe a pair of glasses on.

 

And literally kick the crap out of him. Then grab the mic and as he's laying in stomps saying shit like the following as each stomp connects:

 

"Your status updates don't mean anything!"

 

"No one cares about your twitter account kid!"

 

"Your video games are lame!"

 

And as he's writhing around, crying on the floor, the heel drops an elbow on him. Grabs the DS and smashes it over his head.

 

"Your parents don't love you!"

 

"No one could love you because you're worthless!"

 

"Your whole generation is WORTHLESS!"

 

"You should be OUT THERE! In the sunshine. You fat. Worthless. GEEK"

 

-------

 

Fast forward a week and he's sticking another nerd kid's head down the toilet and flushing it. Takes a twenty dollar bill from out of the kid's pocket.

 

"What's this then kid? You been saving up for another one of your LAME video games?"

 

He rips up the twenty dollar bill. Then sticks the kids head down the toilet again.

 

I cannot believe a modern audience would cheer that.

If the segments were entertaining and the guy was a solid wrestler, he would be cheered. Or at least not booed.

 

Make the shit DARK. Not entertaining, proper off-the-deep-end dark-as-fuck bullying. They won't cheer that.

[JerryvonKramer]

Here's my last idea.

 

Basically, a two-faced heel. You can have the group be heel or babyface to start, does not matter, but basically the guy is constantly two-faced about his friend. Talking behind his back. Making faces behind him.

 

This is a remix of the old Sting-Luger angle, only a little more overt with the douchery in the Luger role.

 

Maybe you also see him claiming credit for things his partner has done. Running his friend down. Maybe even shagging his girlfriend. Or something like that.

 

Basically act like the biggest piece of shit ever. Again, I don't see why anyone would cheer that.

 

Of course this does rely on the logic that the wrestler doesn't watch TV and ignores people telling him about it on twitter, etc.

[GOTNW]

"Heels" don't really work anymore. If they're good at what they do, people will cheer them. And "X-Pac heat" IS heat, but it's still not good.

 

The answer is to do away with the need for the good guy/bad guy dynamic. Either in this or another thread, someone talked about the NJPW "post-modern" dynamic where, for the most part, there are no traditional good guys and bad guys, just normal personalities who fall somewhere on a spectrum. There's no reason short of a lack of imagination that the same couldn't be applied in North America. ECW touched on that a bit, but not as much as they could have/should have.

As someone who originally brought this up I 100% agree. The only "real" heels right now are Miz, Rusev and the Cena/HHH/Batista types. Most of the heels aren't relevant. No one's going to boo Stardust, they don't give a shit. Rusev is a rare example of WWE injecting a current social issue into an angle which they're generally awful at and ***, The Miz is fine as a midcarder but his type doesn't work beyond it. That leaves us with the HHH/Batista/Cena group. With Batista gone, HHH fading away and Cena being there forever I believe they should overpush Reigns to create another real post-modern heel. He might get over as a face, but honestly the crowd turning on him could be better for the company in the long run as it gives them an organic foil for say, Ambrose.

 

Also why not just let guys act like assholes without associating them with Stephanie McMahon? Why is she on TV every week for twenty minutes? Who does that get over?

 

 

Gimmicks worthy of being morally condemned can still work. Bray Wyatt and Miz are/were over in different ways but they have useful heat. Whereas you have some guys that are heels just for the sake of being heels and it results in apathy which is the worst reaction a pro-wrestler can get.

 

 

***-Rusev doesn't work the highspot style that wins over the WWE crowds. I would also argue that he is very overrated as a worker and that his strenghts (selling an injury) are dwelled upon too much and he still has yet to have a PPV match that would significally indulge me. But that's something for another thread.

[sek69]

Here's another heel:

 

"The Vegetarian"

 

Not only is he always awkward when ordering meals and things, he goes out of his way to stop others eating meat.

 

Picture the old APA hanging around and about to tuck into a hot dog each. The vegetarian pops in and takes their hot dogs from them.

 

His finisher could be called "Sustainable development".

 

That's pretty much CJ Parker's gimmick in NXT. Kinda more environmentalist than vegetarian.

 

 

I always thought a modern take on Cactus Jack heeling on ECW fans by being anti-hardcore would get over, but WWE as a company is too much of a mushy, amorphous blob of corporate speak to rebel against.

[Boondocks Kernoodle]

I like the idea of the wrestling feminist, but I don't see why it necessarily has to be a woman. A male social justice warrior gimmick would get the greatest heat of all. Imagine a guy coming out to cut promos on how "problematic" Cena is because of his appropriation of hip-hop culture. He complains that the divas are all cisgender. He comes out during A New Day's matches and yells at the crowd for not giving them enough heat and passive-aggresively suggests that "maybe if they were the right skin color you'd cheer louder!" He comes out at the beginning of the annual holiday Raw and gets them to remove the Christmas tree and decorations because he's an atheist and it's insensitive to non-Christians. Of course, some of his points would be valid but they wouldn't be portrayed as such within storylines. You could pair him with a female manager (NOT valet) to really piss people off. And in a perfect world, that woman would be fat.