PWO-PTBN Roundtable - The 100 Best Matches to See Before You Die

[soup23]

Thanks for the words, Ric vs. Vader was a match I knew I was emotionally connected to, but never really realized how much until Charles poised that match to me. It became one of those moments where when I finished talking, I couldn't remember what I said and I never know if that is a good or bad thing.

 

I would put most of the blame Mick on Angle in that regard. Brock was really wet behind the ears for his first WWE run but he was able to be led into something amazing and had excellent tendencies. I have watched a fair bit of Angle the past year or so and the matches that don't hold up for me is almost always where he tries to do too much. This iron man match and the Edge Backlash 2002 match are the most egregious examples off the top of my head. Angle in both of those instances doesn't do things in my mind to play a role as either a heel or a face, it is just that he simply can perform at that high of a rate for that long of a time.

[Superstar Sleeze]

Honestly, don't think I have seen this one. I think I have seen the Heat Wave match where they do the same go through the ramp spot, but Taz ends up the victor. I just remember a lot of arena brawling and it sucking. Apparently, I watched the wrong rendition. Hell in a Cell '98 is about two spots. I know people argue against that mindset, but for me it is about those spots and it is something people should see before they die.

I love the use of elevated ramp in any promotion for all the reasons Charles mentioned.

I loved to see more retired UFC fighters in pro wrestling. I know the reason against is because it makes WWE look like senior cricuit or amateur, but is it really different than football players that get injured or just cant make it. I think Chael Sonnen or others would be awesome as cocky shoot-style gimmick. I think WWE has proven that if you say it enough, you can get people to believe it see Edge or Shawn Michaels as the greatest wrestler ever. WWE can still work people if it seems true.

Another match I have never watched. The Invasion actually killed my love of wrestling because of how much a WCW fan I was. It was only my Dad getting a cable scrambler in early 2003 and taping Wrestlemania XIX for me on our VCR. It totally rekindled my love of wrestling. I am not sure I would be here if for that. Thanks Dad!

Love the Rey/Malenko series and the GAB '96 match is match of the series. I love the ground vs air hook of the match. Chad hits the nail on the head with how styles make fight. Have not seen it in a while, but I have always loved it. It is right with the Psicosis Bash at the Beach match as the best crusierweight match of 1996. I think the ground work allowed Rey to get over via selling once you start pulling for him and then he wows you it makes it all the better. I do think this match could have used a longer/better shine segment.

[Grimmas]

Episode 4 is up now!

 

http://placetobenation.com/pwo-ptbn-roundtable-top-100-matches-to-watch-before-you-die-4-of-5/

[JerryvonKramer]

Saturday on the PWO-PTBN Podcast Network feed was like a typical Saturday morning from 1986 with all sorts of different wrestling shows all on one after the other.

[JerryvonKramer]

Pete's analysis of the impact and legacy of Liger vs Pillman is really top stuff.

[shoe]

Thanks Parv

[BigBadMick]

Chad, love to hear you coming to the defense of Taker-HHH at Mania 27. I watched it again, late last year, and it STILL GETS ME too!

 

I'd love to hear a broader discussion sometime on those 4 Taker Mania matches (2009-12). You could take on Stephen or Parv in a debate - let the self conscious epics reign supreme!

[bradhindsight]

^BBM - I've pitched Chad the same thing before re: a deep dive on those four matches. We may do a Taker Mania ranking thing also.

 

re: the Mania 28 discussion from Part 3, I think the match's legacy is crippled also by the fact that both guys wrestled at the next two Manias. If it was Undertaker's last match (truly the "end of an era"), it wraps a good story between 27-28 (and really all four). But we'll talk more on that down the road.

[BigBadMick]

Great Brad, I'll look forward to it.

[Grimmas]

Just a reminder, final part comes out Saturday! Then... a new roundtable in a few months? Maybe, do people want more of these things?

[BigBadMick]

Oh, another thing. I really liked the analysis of Rumble 92. Talk of the match as a 'classic' has never sat right with me, and I think you came up with a better description as the best possible version of the match, within it's constraints.

 

Nicely put.

[BigBadMick]

Just a reminder, final part comes out Saturday! Then... a new roundtable in a few months? Maybe, do people want more of these things?

Yes! These are really good podcasts. Need to think of another epic huge topic though......

[kjh]

Just a reminder, final part comes out Saturday! Then... a new roundtable in a few months? Maybe, do people want more of these things?

 

You maybe should do a sixth part talking about matches on the WWE Network that should have been included on the list that weren't chosen. Just an idea.

[Zoo Enthusiast]

^BBM - I've pitched Chad the same thing before re: a deep dive on those four matches. We may do a Taker Mania ranking thing also.

 

re: the Mania 28 discussion from Part 3, I think the match's legacy is crippled also by the fact that both guys wrestled at the next two Manias. If it was Undertaker's last match (truly the "end of an era"), it wraps a good story between 27-28 (and really all four). But we'll talk more on that down the road.

This sounds awesome, Brad.

 

And yeah, more epic roundtables.

[shoe]

 

 

Just a reminder, final part comes out Saturday! Then... a new roundtable in a few months? Maybe, do people want more of these things?

You maybe should do a sixth part talking about matches on the WWE Network that should have been included on the list that weren't chosen. Just an idea.

We sorta incorporated it into the show. We each picked a handful of matches.

[elliott]

Just a reminder, final part comes out Saturday! Then... a new roundtable in a few months? Maybe, do people want more of these things?

 

You guys should do the Jeff Bowdren top 100 80s matches.

 

Or review the old dvdvr Top matches of the 1990s poll.

 

Or the top 10-15 matches from each of the 80s sets.

 

Something like that. The point is, don't stop. These podcasts have been awesome.

[BigBadMick]

 

Just a reminder, final part comes out Saturday! Then... a new roundtable in a few months? Maybe, do people want more of these things?

 

You guys should do the Jeff Bowdren top 100 80s matches.

 

Or review the old dvdvr Top matches of the 1990s poll.

 

Or the top 10-15 matches from each of the 80s sets.

 

Something like that. The point is, don't stop. These podcasts have been awesome.

 

Yeah, do all of those

[dawho5]

Those are great ideas, but I don't know that they'd be as good as the WWE list podcasts. The WWE lists seem pretty all over the place with enough goofiness, favoritism and attempts at representing a particular style or promotion with more than likely the wrong match to make for really good discussion material. Stuff like the DVDVR lists probably won't have near as much of that as the WWE lists.

[JerryvonKramer]

We did the Top 50 Heels a while back, any interest in the Faces list?

 

I personally cannot be involved in the matches ones, because I can't watch shit tons of footage like these sick fucks.

[elliott]

We did the Top 50 Heels a while back, any interest in the Faces list?

 

 

As long as Will is on to yell at you when you put Mike Rotunda at #50

 

I think revisiting smark opinion from the late 80s (Bowdren list) or early 00's (dvdvr lists) would be interesting. I imagine there is a small handful of people around here who voted in those dvdvr polls back in the day.

 

Selfishly, I'd prefer if you guys tackled the Bowdren list because I've been watching a ton of 80s stuff lately.

 

Maybe even Meltzer's list of 5star matches could be done? I'd love to hear Steven and Charles talk about a Davey Richards match.

[Zoo Enthusiast]

I actually thought the same, re: Dave's list. That could be fun, though there would be some repeats.

[Grimmas]

The final episode!!

 

http://placetobenation.com/pwo-ptbn-roundtable-top-100-matches-on-the-wwe-network5-of-5/

[dgrblue]

Whatever the topic, just put Johnny and Will together, and see how long things break down, and they just yell F-bombs back-and-forth, toward each other.

[adamsfan]

this has been a great series to listen to. I love the idea of the top 10 or 20 of each 80's dvdvr set...and maybe instead of a bowdren podcast, at least compare it to the bowdren list.. The analysis of each match certainly generates interest in watching matches that I have either forgotten about or never have seen before. Keep it up. The " List's " podcast seem to breathe new life in the genre.

[BigBadMick]

Wow! Hell of a way to finish boys! A few thoughts....

 

I actually think the Clash 9 match is the highlight of Funk-Flair. Bash comes very close, but Solie and Ross together calling it, and the microphone punches, and the goofy suplex over the top rope all add to the fun.

 

I'm with Chad on Michaels-Angle. Loved it. Great intensity on the finishing stretch.

 

Bulldog-Hart at SummerSlam disappointed me on last watch. Much prefer the in your house December 95 one.

 

Bret-Perfect at SummerSlam is probably similar to Chad's attitude to Warrior-Savage. First ppv I watched and really got behind Bret, and Piper and Heenan sniping at each other on commentary was great too. So, big emotional attachment and nostalgia - I'm almost afraid to go and re-appraise it. Leave the memories alone, damnit!

 

Rewatched Cena-Lesnar and Cena-Punk late last year. Lesnar's match holds up really well - just jawdropping opening 5 minutes or so. On first viewing I was pissed at the finish, but this time round it worked ok. Like you said, it was a fluke loss and Cena had been decimated. You didn't get into the postmatch speech controversy, but I understand you needed to keep the show moving. Still love Cena-Punk also, white hot crowd, with massive introductions and the fact that it was in July immediately made me think of Canadian Stampede. I feared the crowd might have carried it when rewatching, but no it's still a blast all the way through and great, GREAT ending.

 

You won't hear me complain about Rock-Austin at 17 either. Short of someone throwing Goldberg in there, it was the most massive match that was possible at the time. I really liked the way they had gone their separate ways after Backlash 99, and weren't interacting at all throughout the rest of the year. Of course, having Austin disappear in November delayed this match by a year, and it was easy enough to keep tension rising with teases (at Armageddon and Rumble) after his return in Sep '00. Really, at the time I thought this was every bit as epic as Hogan-Warrior had been. And a much, much better match.

 

I was glad to hear the Toronto Feb 87 Savage-Steamboat match get some love . Is it sacrilege to prefer it to Mania?!!

 

The Flair-Steamboat trilogy give diminishing returns (technically, and oh-so-slightly) for me. Order of preference is Chicago, then New Orleans, then Nashville. And the difference in the first two is miniscule. Third's still great, but a bigger drop off from the other pair.

 

I'm on the Mania 26 over 25 bandwagon for HBK-Taker. Tighter match, bigger consequences, respectful crowd post match and the absolute best sendoff possible.

 

Again, really great final show and please keep these coming. One thing I was thinking - if you do DVDVR sets, just for the sake of variety and a sense of promotional changes in the decade maybe talk about the top voted match from each year represented in the set?