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Tag Teams Back Again Podcast Thread


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This will be the ongoing thread for my new show with Superstar Sleeze (Marty Sleeze in the Titans universe) that will focus on historical tag team wrestling. Beginning with 1985 WWF, the plan is to eventually look at other territories (Carolinas, AWA, WCW, etc) and likely other countries (Japan, Mexico, etc), examining how tag team wrestling varied from place to place and from era to era.

 

The pilot episode, released last month, is available here http://placetobenation.com/titans-xtra-tag-teams-back-again/

 

Episode 2 http://placetobenation.com/tag-teams-back-again-episode-2/

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Join the "New Dream Team" Kelly Nelson and Marty "Superstar" Sleeze as they continue to examine tag team wrestling from 1985 WWF! Today, the focus turns to makeshift/short-lived tag teams, with discussion on a collection of matches featuring some of the biggest names in wrestling history.

Tito Santana & Ricky Steamboat vs ??? & ???, 3/25/85 Brantford, Ont

Andre the Giant & Paul Orndorff vs Roddy Piper & Bob Orton Jr, 8/10/85 MSG

Tito Santana & Tony Atlas vs Randy Savage & Jesse Ventura, 12/7/85 Spectrum

Andre the Giant & Hulk Hogan vs Big John Studd & King Kong Bundy, 10/31/85 SNME

Bruno Sammartino & Paul Orndorff vs Roddy Piper & Bob Orton, CAGE MATCH 10/26/85 Spectrum

 

Playlist http://www.dailymotion.com/playlist/x3odmk_kelly1977x_ttba/1#video=x4c6n1

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Part 1 was a great show...I loved the hell out of it..

 

The Santana / Steamer vs. Dream Team match is on one of the Best of WWF tapes from way back when...

 

I dont think the US Express / Dream Team title change in full is on any Colliseum vids, just the end on the History of the Tag Titles..

 

Really lookin forward to part 2...

 

Keep up the great work...and Marty, your match reviews are spot fuckin on and well done.

 

Studd and Bundy should have had a long feud with the Bulldogs over Summer / Fall of 86..I think they should have been champs, but that means more switching around when means devaluing the straps....

 

But have them really in a heated feud with the Bulldogs (maybe a title match on SNME) instead of the one match they had against each other...

 

Studd and Bundy would have been a great team into late 86 and into 87, but it wasnt to be.

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Halfway through this. Marty - interesting points about match structure/face shine on the Piper tag. When do you think the 'heels must not be completely overpowered' mentality came in? First thing I noticed was complaints about the Horsemen stooging too much for Dusty in '87.

 

Also, and it's funny because I was just reading this last week - Raven completely disagrees with you in a Torch talk in 2003. He says if something has to be cut from a match it's the shine, and the heat is vital to get the finish over.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Episode 3 will be dropping in about a weeks time. Marty and I will be examining the Bulldogs, Harts, Killer Bees and more Dream Team as we move from 85 to 86 in the WWF.

 

I would be remiss if I didn't give major props to Word Hoard for coming up with this sweet poster for our show. He is also responsible for the latest Brainbuster! and Exile on Badstreet art, which is also very, very awesome. Take a bow Word Hoard!

 

ehxf1c.jpg

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Episode 3 http://placetobenation.com/tag-teams-back-again-episode-3/

 

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Curl up in your most comfortable pair of Zubaz and join Kelly and Marty Sleeze for more tag team action from 1985-86 WWF! Also, history geeks rejoice as the early careers of the Bulldogs, Harts, and Bees are explored.

 

Today, we examine:

 

British Bulldogs vs Hart Foundation 4/27/85, Spectrum (first ever meeting)

Dream Team vs British Bulldogs 10/13/85, MLG

Dream Team vs Killer Bees 12/7/85, Boston Garden

British Bulldogs vs Hart Foundation, 1/18/86, Cap Center

British Bulldogs vs Dream Team, 5/19/86, MSG

 

*Apologies for some audio issues again. I swear, we've finally fixed the problem and everything will be smooth as silk from now on*

Playlist:

 

http://www.dailymotion.com/playlist/x3pl32_kelly1977x_ttba-3/1#video=x3wvdr

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNXBq_ryD1o&index=1&list=PLV6RCTo_Cd0BV2D-3XXPg6YPmk1p3lPeq

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I'm exactly 1:04 in with 1:04 left. Very enjoyable so far and honestly no real audio issues so far.

 

I enjoyed the discussion of fan perspectives on Hart Foundation and Rockers and why people might think the things they do.

 

On structure and house style, I'd break it down as follows:

 

AWA - extended shine, double heat. Often babyfaces get ten minutes before twenty mins of FIP with heels working both guys over.

 

WWF - Heel in peril, face in peril. For me this is actually pretty similar to AWA with the extended shine, but often FIP sequence is truncated and seldom is there more than one.

 

Southern - shine, FIP, hot tag, finish

 

Agreed?

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Some other running thoughts:

 

Laughed out loud during Blair - Mike Graham comparison.

 

Best Blair match I've seen is from 84, I think, vs. Paul Orndorff. Shown on the very first PTW.

 

Poor Jumping Jim. Can you see him getting over in JCP?

At that effort level, he can't get over anywhere. Now, if he was in JCP and motivated then there is no reason he couldn't get over. The tag team roster was pretty stacked, who would you put him with? I am imagine he is a face. You have America's Team, RnRs, Road Warriors, Garvin/Windham (87). I can't think of a midcarder to stick him with. I think financially he made the best decision for himself, but maybe Mid-South or AWA could have used his talents more even if both on the verge of collapse.

 

On your other point Parv, I was speaking about how the Harts/Bulldogs deviated from the house style with a short shine & double FIP. From your talking point of 20mins, perhaps due to the compression of the WWF style, they took the AWA style, which may have influenced Stampede and compressed. Maybe, it was the Stampede style and we just don't know?

 

Everybody else thanks for the kind works. Ax and Smasher are coming, don't you worry! I am making Kelly sit through all those Powers of Pain matches that I watched. MWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

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  • 4 weeks later...

Episode 4 http://placetobenation.com/tag-teams-back-again-episode-4/
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Join Kelly and Marty Sleeze as they continue their trip through the 1986 WWF tag team scene. On this episode they examine:

Hart Foundation vs Killer Bees 2/17/86 MSG
Dream Team vs British Bulldogs 4/7/86 Wrestlemania 2
Dream Team vs British Bulldogs 2 out of 3 falls 10/4/86 SNME
Hart Foundation vs British Bulldogs 11/1/86 Boston Garden
Hart Foundation vs The Islanders 11/16/86 MLG
Dream Team vs The Islanders 12/6/86 Boston Garden

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Playlist for ep 4

 

Islanders vs Hart Foundation

Islanders vs Dream Team

http://www.dailymotion.com/playlist/x3s3qi_kelly1977x_ttba-4/1#video=x8jiyc

 

Hart Foundation vs Killer Bees

https://youtu.be/guhF_AbDJ3I?list=PLV6RCTo_Cd0DPMLk3hUL46AN9dwFHrlw-&t=1727

 

The other three matches are on the Network. Highly recommend checking out the Islanders matches and the Bulldogs/Dream Team SNME match

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Loving the show, as always.

 

Kelly mentioned that Brady Boone was some jobber. He was, but he was also Billy Jack Haynes cousin. There was a memorable angle involving him where Demolition beat Boone and another jobber and completely destroyed Boone post match. Hayes, and his partner Ken Patera, come out to protect Boone. Then Patera/Hayes feud with Demolition for a little bit. There is even a match where Patera is hurt or something and Boone takes his place. It's a really fun little feud and the first real thing they did with Demolition.

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I am pretty sure I watched Demos vs Patera/Haynes and I know I watched Ax vs Patera (Matt D vs Dylan, BABY!) and was underwhelmed. Yep, we will rewatch. The best early Demolition match is with surprise, surprise the Islanders.

Cutting Edge not in that it was better, but it was what wrestling was moving towards except the Bulldogs were a decade ahead of themselves. It felt really avant-garde for the time, No, the Bulldogs style did not hurt the tag team division because there was no follow up until Benoit/Guerrero/Malenko in mid-90s WCW. Once Dynamite gets injured, the tag scene resets to Demolition clubbering, Strike Force/Islanders working Southern-Style blood feud and the Rockers being friggin awesome. Bulldogs were not immediately influential and thus had little bearing on the state of the tag division. The tag division felt apart because Vince stopped caring.

I pointed it out because just how incredible the WWF was in the late 80s in terms of all the styles they had. Bulldogs were basically a Japanese tag team wrestling against a hard-hitting, no-nonsense Mid-Atlantic stalwart and his useless WWF heel partner. It was just really cool the all-star nature of the promotion.

I have actually only seen that Hart Foundation/Killer Bees match. I did want to watch some Bret Hart vs Jim Brunzell singles at some point.

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