Grimmas Posted May 28, 2015 Report Share Posted May 28, 2015 In the Women in the WWE thread, Badlittlekitten keeps stating that all divas are worst than The Miz (except Sasha). What does everybody else think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Redman Posted May 28, 2015 Report Share Posted May 28, 2015 Depends how you mean. At the moment Miz is kind of shitty and I'd take Charlotte over him even though I don't think she's all that good yet. Miz at his best is better than Charlotte has been thus far, but that's not really a knock on Charlotte since she's so new still, and Miz peaked in 2010. As for the wider question, Divas I think are worse than Miz as of this moment: Rosa Mendez, Summer Rae, Tamina. Including NXT girls: Dana Brooke, Alexa Bliss, Carmella, Eva Marie. All the other girls I would take over The Miz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badlittlekitten Posted May 28, 2015 Report Share Posted May 28, 2015 😁 . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WingedEagle Posted May 28, 2015 Report Share Posted May 28, 2015 A vote for Charlotte here is not even a backhanded compliment. Its a roundhouse, Ray McDonald style offense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.S. Posted May 28, 2015 Report Share Posted May 28, 2015 Neither Charlotte or The Miz are particularly good babyfaces. I thought Miz had the potential to be a great face, but the writers didn't turn him properly, so it had no chance. Ditto for Del Rio and so many other half-baked, poorly-written turns during that timeframe. Come to think of it, Charlotte's turn kinda "just happened" too. Anyway, there are plenty of divas worse than The Miz (the usual suspects), but not all of them. Hell, I'd love a Miz/Sasha Banks pairing. Wouldn't that be magical? (I actually like The Miz.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMJ Posted May 28, 2015 Report Share Posted May 28, 2015 I voted Miz because I don't think he's nearly as terrible as people say. In the build to WM27, I thought he did a great job as a heel. I think he's had 3 decent-to-great tag runs (with Morrison, Big Show, and Sandow) and that this is his strength. Outside the ring, I think he is excellent as a spokesman for the company. His work as a singles is very inconsistent, but I'd say the same thing about nearly every midcard worker with comparable years on the roster - Kofi, Ziggler, R-Truth, Barrett, and Cody Rhodes, for example, have been around for quite awhile and, while they're all better athletes than Miz and have had individual matches better than his best, it's not like any have spotless records. I'm also not sure any have ever been as over as Miz was in late 2010/2011. Miz's staleness as a character is hurting him more than the small improvements he's made as a worker have helped him. Miz is also from Cleveland (Parma to be specific), so, that gets extra points from me. Charlotte is a great talent and there are plenty of other men on the roster that she is more valuable than (Darren Young, Fandango, The Ascension), but The Miz is an established act with proven value. If I'm starting a company tomorrow, I'd take the Miz based on his track record, experience, marketability, and age. At 34, he's still young enough and relatively healthy enough to give me 5-6 more very good years (plus, we've seen plenty of guys actually get better as they reach 40). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimmas Posted May 28, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 28, 2015 You would take Miz over Charlotte when building a company? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted May 28, 2015 Report Share Posted May 28, 2015 You'd think that Steven would have less faith in democracy by now. Bless his Canadian idealist heart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badlittlekitten Posted May 28, 2015 Report Share Posted May 28, 2015 I will give Charlotte this; better figure four. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillThompson Posted May 28, 2015 Report Share Posted May 28, 2015 Miz is pretty shit in the ring. He's been able to craft a decent character, but that character always falls apart the moment he has to wrestle. Charlotte is decent in the ring, she's more of an athlete than a wrestler. When in the ring with higher quality wrestlers she does very well, but when in with people who are still developing or equal to/beneath her level the match is usually no great shakes. I think a lot of that comes down to how her best and worst attribute is her athleticism. It allows her to have these really cool moments, but it also stops her from bothering to chain sequences together. I mean why bother when all anyone cares about is how athletic you are? Still, I'd take Charlotte, and the overwhelming majority of women wrestlers in the WWE, over Miz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SomethingSavage Posted May 28, 2015 Report Share Posted May 28, 2015 I don't know. That image of Charlotte & Natty tied together in a Figure Four, with neither of them knowing whether to sell pain or put on the pressure for offense, kind of makes me think neither Charlotte nor Miz have the Figure Four down to an art really. But, as somebody pointed out above, what bugs me the most about Miz is that there's this kind of disconnect between his character & his in-ring work. I can appreciate that he's CAPABLE of putting together decent matches at times. But I don't know. Even as a babyface, when his character just doesn't fit or function properly at all in my opinion, he had good outings with Barrett and Cesaro. And that's even at a time when they were shoehorning the Figure Four into his arsenal, which definitely didn't help matters. Miz doesn't come across as a likable or sympathetic guy at all, so they'd almost have to go out of their way to craft & create the perfect scenario for him to hope to garner any kind of sympathy with the crowd. They kind of ALMOST had that with Randy Orton embarrassing him in front of his parents or whatever at ringside that time, but there was almost literally no followup - as Steph just kind of buried Miz on TV, and Miz went away to do PR work with no real rebuttal or rivalry to stem from it. His best stuff's clearly as a heel, but even then I feel like he works too "tough" and too "big" in the ring. It's an odd thing, but it's noticeable. The Daniel Bryan and Alex Riley feuds - and ESPECIALLY the first Cena program - where Miz is allowed to be this overbearingly obnoxious (and cowardly) prick, is about the perfect placement of Miz for me. If he's not going to stay strictly in the tag team scene with a partner, then he needs to be the pest that aggravates a crowd-favorite until they're begging to see him put in his place. And the point is supposed to be in KNOWING that he will get what's coming to him, if ONLY the babyface can catch him in a fair fight or get their hands on him. Almost anytime he needs to go over should be a stroke of accidental luck or a banana peel deal. Originally posted by C.S. I thought Miz had the potential to be a great face Care to elaborate a little? Curious to hear your take on it. Outside of the whole "social media ambassador" thing, I never really got it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted May 28, 2015 Report Share Posted May 28, 2015 Miz was a good tag worker. He's gotten progressively worse since they split him from Morrison. At this point I think you could argue he's the worst base in wrestling history, at least among full time performers. For that reason alone he is worse now than Charlotte is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoe Posted May 28, 2015 Report Share Posted May 28, 2015 I voted Charlotte and I was called out on a podcast recently as a wrestling sexist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodhelmet Posted May 28, 2015 Report Share Posted May 28, 2015 I voted Charlotte and I was called out on a podcast recently as a wrestling sexist. Miz is low hanging fruit. Bobby Riggs would have voted for Charlotte. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted May 28, 2015 Report Share Posted May 28, 2015 To be fair to shoe, I didn't say he was a sexist, I just said he hated women. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimmas Posted May 28, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 28, 2015 Badlittlekitten, please describe how Charlotte can not lace The Miz's boots, please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goc Posted May 28, 2015 Report Share Posted May 28, 2015 EDIT:Retraction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badlittlekitten Posted May 28, 2015 Report Share Posted May 28, 2015 Wow, got Grimmas begging over here. Goc, I did say that. I've already gone over Charlotte in the other thread. I'll probably look at Miz tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoe Posted May 28, 2015 Report Share Posted May 28, 2015 I voted Charlotte and I was called out on a podcast recently as a wrestling sexist. Miz is low hanging fruit. Bobby Riggs would have voted for Charlotte. LMAO...Bobby Riggs is a great man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted May 29, 2015 Report Share Posted May 29, 2015 Miz is one of my top 5 most hated wrestlers ever. Nothing is genuine about the guy. I've hated him since Tough Enough and he's never done a thing to win me over.I hate him more than I hate Randy Orton and that's saying something. I watched Charlotte and Bayley tear down the house at an NXT show. I think she effectively uses the Flair legacy while not being stuck in her father's shadow. She's a great athlete, she has a high impact offense, she bumps and sells well and she oozes charisma in person. I'm always excited to see her on the screen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Redman Posted May 29, 2015 Report Share Posted May 29, 2015 Originally posted by C.S. I thought Miz had the potential to be a great face Care to elaborate a little? Curious to hear your take on it. Outside of the whole "social media ambassador" thing, I never really got it. Not to speak for C.S., but I had the same feeling. It was around WM27 when Miz was main eventing. They had that video package set to Nas at WM that chronicled his entire career from The Real World to WM main eventer, touching on all the garbage he had to get through to reach that point. It occurred to me that his was a cool redemption story, and could be used to turn him babyface in the future (at the time I thought MANY years in the future) if they played it like that. A guy overcoming all the odds, and everyone shitting all over him, to make it to the top. Plus he is a polished public speaker, good company ambassador, and outside of WWE is a likeable personality. Then he actually turned babyface about 18 months later, and it flopped because: - He turned babyface for no reason. - They didn't use his story to harness any goodwill or sympathy with the audience. - The inherent problems of the WWE midcard merry-go-round. - Miz, in wrestling, is just flat out unlikeable and couldn't find a way to come off as a face or sympathetic. - Annoying shit like trying to give him the Figure Four. Maybe I was wrong and he'd never make a face. He's just an annoying guy who's face you want to punch. Maybe they just tried it at the wrong time for the wrong reasons. I don't know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted May 29, 2015 Report Share Posted May 29, 2015 I actually think the crowd really wanted to cheer for Miz at that Survivor Series and he got one big offensive flurry and then just became another guy in the match. If they had given him a meaningful, dominant night that night things could have been different. Maybe not hugely different, but at least different. Thinking about all this actually bumped up Cesaro on my GOAT list for having that miracle feud with him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WingedEagle Posted May 29, 2015 Report Share Posted May 29, 2015 If you're referring to the '11 Survivor Series, no one wanted to cheer for Miz. People in the house wanted any excuse to pop for Rock (and Punk that night as well, especially once Finkel was there), and because of the Rock issue were even more adamant than usual about heeling Cena. Miz & Truth were just vehicles for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted May 29, 2015 Report Share Posted May 29, 2015 I mean the 2012 Survivor Series. That crowd was hot for him and he came in with a lot of fire. And then he got Barrett and then was pinned like it was nothing and that was that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WingedEagle Posted May 29, 2015 Report Share Posted May 29, 2015 My bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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