WCW and WWF in 1995: Which was worse?

[JerryvonKramer]

* Reunion of Horsemen (I love the Pillman/Anderson vs. Sting/Flair match)

Is that the match where they all deck Sting AGAIN?

 

Makes me laugh every single time the Horsemen sucker Sting. He's so stupid, LOL

[MFoy]

In retrospect the post and pre match dancing just killed Shawn. His attire was also painfully uncool

Before the Summerslam 95 ladder match, Barry Didisnky did a pitch for Shawn Michaels merchandise and it was all so terrible. Even as a 12 year old I couldn't imagine anyone wanting to wear it. Those gloves in particular were embarrassing. It's even more insane to me now. It didn't fit the trends of 1995 or any other year.

[MFoy]

One thing I really feel about 95 WCW is that they were trying to be 1989 WWF and doing a very bad job of it. They even did some of the stuff where they erased a guy's prior history. They said they discovered Meng as a bodyguard even though everyone knew he was Haku. It was bad when Vince did that stuff, but I think it was worse when WCW did it because it's not like there was some new audience watching WCW who were seeing these guys for the first time.

[Jingus]

WWF was behind the times in terms of what kids like in 1995. They were still trying to sell everything in basically an 80s style, just a bit flashier; but unlike in 1984, this time they were way past the zeitgeist. Hell, Kurt Cobain was already dead and buried before they even started pushing HBK as a hair-metal glam-rock babyface. Razor Ramon was based on a movie that was a dozen years old, the 1-2-3 Kid's gimmick was apparently from Sesame Street (seriously, there's no way you could say that name out loud and make it sound badass), and the champion? The champion was a fucking trucker. Trucker movies were popular back when Clint Eastwood was doing them in the 1970s, but this gimmick was WAY past its expiration date.

 

And those were the TOP gimmicks. They decided that the worst grappler in the company was gonna be their Ultimate Fighter. Jeff Jarrett was still doing the same cowboy persona which must've already felt stale when he was actually doing it in the Texas minor leagues. And of course there was the small army of various wrestlers whose idiotic gimmicks were based on them having a side job, since apparently a full-time wrestling career paid less than being a garbageman or a plumber or whatever (which, to be fair, in 1995 might have been a shoot!). The tag scene had slop-chucking hillbillies versus jean-wearing cowpunchers versus metrosexual fitness instructors versus whoever the hell Ted Dibiase was managing this week. The entire company reeked of desperation and bad ideas that nobody could possibly enjoy without a smirk of irony.

 

Even the details on more up-to-date acts were handled wrong: Men On A Mission, for example. Okay, let's forget the fact that they were terrible wrestlers and nobody wanted to watch them work. Let's just focus on the fact that they were black guys (not many of those in the WWF at the time) and, more importantly for the time: rappers. 1995 was a HUGE era for rap. You had everyone from the reigning Aces in their prime, like Tupac and Biggie; you had still-going-strong older guys like most of the original members of NWA and LL Cool J; you had future superstars like the various Wu-Tang members and Three 6 Mafia; and you even had your two-hit wonders like Coolio and Shaggy. And, of course, NONE OF THOSE GUYS DRESSED LIKE MEN-ON-A-GODDAMNED-MISSION. Mo and Mable were made to look like gangsta minstrels, dressed up in ridiculous outfits that even Heavy D and the Fat Boyz never would've worn. Anyone who'd actually seen a single rap video in their life would instantly know that these clowns were the saddest of pretenders. No wonder the crowds at the time were so overwhelmingly lily-white in most cities; I wouldn't wanna bother showing up for this shit either, if they so poorly attempted to appropriate a race's subculture (and thoroughly botched it) like that. WWF'95 had such a terrible portrayal of non-caucasian personas that next year's Nation of Domination was actually a step up in comparison.

[benjaminkicks]

Going from memory, I really can't stand anything WCW was doing in '95.

 

It wasn't a very good year for the WWF either, but at least there were a few bright spots.

[El-P]

I have an odd fondness in my heart for WWF in 95. I really liked those wacky vignettes and characters that year : Hakushi, Jean Pierre Lafitte, Skip, Make a Difference Fatu, and of course, Waylon Mercy and Goldust.

 

WCW in 95 had Hogan being truly unbearable. I take the Diesel push over that shit every day and twice on Sunday. At least he's got the Bret Hart matches and the Shawn Mania match.

[Strummer]

they never seemed to harp on the trucker aspect of Diesel's gimmick much. I vaguely remember Bobby Heenan referencing it earlier on. Although oddly it was in his titantron even when he was champion I believe

[Frankensteiner]

Even the details on more up-to-date acts were handled wrong: Men On A Mission, for example. Okay, let's forget the fact that they were terrible wrestlers and nobody wanted to watch them work. Let's just focus on the fact that they were black guys (not many of those in the WWF at the time) and, more importantly for the time: rappers. 1995 was a HUGE era for rap. You had everyone from the reigning Aces in their prime, like Tupac and Biggie; you had still-going-strong older guys like most of the original members of NWA and LL Cool J; you had future superstars like the various Wu-Tang members and Three 6 Mafia; and you even had your two-hit wonders like Coolio and Shaggy. And, of course, NONE OF THOSE GUYS DRESSED LIKE MEN-ON-A-GODDAMNED-MISSION. Mo and Mable were made to look like gangsta minstrels, dressed up in ridiculous outfits that even Heavy D and the Fat Boyz never would've worn. Anyone who'd actually seen a single rap video in their life would instantly know that these clowns were the saddest of pretenders. No wonder the crowds at the time were so overwhelmingly lily-white in most cities; I wouldn't wanna bother showing up for this shit either, if they so poorly attempted to appropriate a race's subculture (and thoroughly botched it) like that. WWF'95 had such a terrible portrayal of non-caucasian personas that next year's Nation of Domination was actually a step up in comparison.

To be fair, I don't think race had anything to do with it. The Man Mountain Rock and Rad Radford music gimmicks were just as shitty.

[Tabe]

All I notice on WCW box covers like that is that the photographs look so amateur because of the lighting. I always thought that reading WCW Magazine at the time too.

More fun is looking at JCP/WCW covers and finding all the ones with: A) The wrong year on the cover; Pictures of wrestlers/matches not from that show; C) Other screwups in general.

 

Some examples:

- Best of Starrcade 1983-90 tape has a picture of Sting vs Flair, even though they never faced each other in that time period at Starrcade (not counting Black Scorpion)

- Great American Bash '89 has a picture of Flair vs Steamboat on it

 

And, then we have WCW messing up the boxes for their biggest show of the year. TWICE.

 

 

[Coffey]

I'm curious, in general, what is the mindset of the title? Why are you more curious about which was worse, instead of which was better? I mean, it's the same conversation/question, really, but one is obviously more inviting of talking about negatives instead of positives.

 

Not that it bothers me or anything but as someone that has received flak for being too negative in the past, little things like that are usually what make my mind immediately start thinking of things to complain about in wrestling.

[MFoy]

I think it's because I've always found WCW in 95 to be the absolute worst (up until Nitro started, as I said), so I focused on that: which was the worst of the worst?

[MFoy]

 

All I notice on WCW box covers like that is that the photographs look so amateur because of the lighting. I always thought that reading WCW Magazine at the time too.

More fun is looking at JCP/WCW covers and finding all the ones with: A) The wrong year on the cover; Pictures of wrestlers/matches not from that show; C) Other screwups in general.

 

Some examples:

- Best of Starrcade 1983-90 tape has a picture of Sting vs Flair, even though they never faced each other in that time period at Starrcade (not counting Black Scorpion)

 

Sting and Flair wrestled at Starrcade 89.

[Tabe]

Yes, they did. Thank you.

[ohtani's jacket]

1995 WWF was the worst. I swear if Bret hadn't beaten Diesel at Survivor Series I wouldn't be watching wrestling today. The two biggest mark out moments of my life were Bret winning at Survivor Series and Rey beating Eddy at Halloween Havoc '97. The first was pre-internet connection for me and the second was based on intermittent access to the internet and some Al Issacs type info about Rey losing his mask.

 

1995 WCW didn't offer much when we did the Smarkschoice poll, especially with Pillman vs. Badd disappointing. Dylan discovered a good Vader tag with the Patriot, though. I was watching Worldwide at the time, so I wasn't as invested in the shittiness as I was with WWF.

[Wade Garrett]

They were both awful. I think the 90's were pretty shitty overall for WWF and WCW. I can see it's appeal to younger fans at the time. Those born no earlier then 1980 maybe. WCW had it's moments but the WWF was terrible. I wouldn't re-watch that shit if you offered an hourly wage to do so. I got caught up in the Monday Night stuff like every other lemming and lapsed fan too. Doesn't change the decade though.

 

Outside of Japan, Lucha, and SMW (if that's your bag) the 90's were the worst complete decade I've seen for pro wrestling in my lifetime. 2004 thru 2009 is the absolute worst period though.

[jcmmnx]

I used to record matches to VHS starting in 1990 so I had a collection of all the best tv matches to watch whenever I wanted. I remember things being so bad in 95 I started a jobber tape, and just put a bunch of shitty "comedy" matches on it because the big two sucked so hard. It wasn't long after that I started watching ECW out of necessity.

I guess I'd have to give the edge to WCW they had 4 months of Nitro, and seemed like a fresher product by bringing in guys like Guerrero, Malenko, Benoit, and Sabu.

[soup23]

They were both awful. I think the 90's were pretty shitty overall for WWF and WCW. I can see it's appeal to younger fans at the time. Those born no earlier then 1980 maybe. WCW had it's moments but the WWF was terrible. I wouldn't re-watch that shit if you offered an hourly wage to do so. I got caught up in the Monday Night stuff like every other lemming and lapsed fan too. Doesn't change the decade though.

 

Outside of Japan, Lucha, and SMW (if that's your bag) the 90's were the worst complete decade I've seen for pro wrestling in my lifetime. 2004 thru 2009 is the absolute worst period though.

 

Interesting thoughts on that as I am finishing up with most years of the 90's and I think at this point it is only eclipsed by the 1980's as far as an overall decade I enjoy in wrestling history.

[JerryvonKramer]

What are your thoughts on the OP Chad? WWF vs. WCW 95?

[artDDP]

I liked 1995 WCW better. I felt at the time including pre-Nitro that they had the better roster and were offering more interesting matches. The WWF had some good stuff but way too much Isaac Yankem, Mabel, Sid Vicious, etc.

[C.S.]

WCW debuting Nitro in 1995 gives it the instant victory IMO. It was a compelling, must see, can't change the channel show. The WWF was a trainwreck the entire year.

[Happ Hazzard]

WCW had more interesting stuff overall. Both promotions had bad stuff at the top of the card (Diesel as World Champ, Hogan vs Dungeon of Doom), good stuff just underneath (Bret vs whoever, although Bret was used badly throughout most of the year, Shawn vs Whoever, Davey, Owen, Kid, Flair vs Savage in WCW) WCW had a mixture of good matches and stupid stuff on the undercard, WWF underneath stuff was generally pretty dire. Both promotions picked up at the end of the year, with good WWF PPVs and Monday Nitro generally being awesome from the outset. I would say the best PPV of the year was Survivor Series, worst was KOTR. WCW had their eternal problem of their PPVs being lacklustre even when the TV was good.

[fxnj]

 

They were both awful. I think the 90's were pretty shitty overall for WWF and WCW. I can see it's appeal to younger fans at the time. Those born no earlier then 1980 maybe. WCW had it's moments but the WWF was terrible. I wouldn't re-watch that shit if you offered an hourly wage to do so. I got caught up in the Monday Night stuff like every other lemming and lapsed fan too. Doesn't change the decade though.

 

Outside of Japan, Lucha, and SMW (if that's your bag) the 90's were the worst complete decade I've seen for pro wrestling in my lifetime. 2004 thru 2009 is the absolute worst period though.

 

Interesting thoughts on that as I am finishing up with most years of the 90's and I think at this point it is only eclipsed by the 1980's as far as an overall decade I enjoy in wrestling history.

Looking only at the U.S., I'd agree. 80's had territories and JCP while 2000's had the indies and Smackdown being good-great through most of the decade. 90s, though, was mostly a void for great matches beyond the big 2, and WWF and WCW both had long periods of coasting without much interesting things going on.