WWE TV from November 15th to 21th

[Loss]

Yeah, that's another level of bad. Assuming that isn't a complete lie, Vince has also been doing this for almost a half-century.

[Grimmas]

Does anyone actually believe Charlotte went to WWE creative and strongly advocated they talk about her dead brother?

 

This company.

[fakeplastictrees]

The problem with the heat Eva is getting is that its 'Go Away' heat and not 'Money' heat. Trolling the fan-base is all fine and well if there are some dollar signs at the end, but WWE should learn from TNA. TNA trolled its fans for a long time and now look where they are...back at The Impact Zone and heading to Pop TV with little-to-no fanfare and not making a dime. Eva Marie getting boo'd is not causing people to INVEST themselves like they were when they were booing Sasha, etc. The multiple fans drowning out her promo and turning their backs should be a big heads up to whomever things being boo'd means people are interested and that the person being boo'd is drawing 'good' heat.

[TravJ1979]

Yeah, that's another level of bad. Assuming that isn't a complete lie, Vince has also been doing this for almost a half-century.

I just tweeted a half dozen other examples of them exploiting death/the dead. The excuse that Charlotte, who has been with the company just a couple of years can force VKM or anyone's hand is beyond absurd.

[DMJ]

Talk about digging yourself into a hole and then trying to get out of it by shoveling further down.

 

I know the Reid Flair thing was a big deal in the IWC, especially among older fans who saw/heard about it, but I can tell you - based on the middle school I work at - most kids really didn't even catch it or care and I'm thinking most "casuals" weren't made aware of it unless they frequent boards like this or news sites. Personally, I didn't like the segment - but that's mostly because I feel like it was too obvious a "hail mary" play/uber cheap way to try to get heat for a match that will STILL likely be soundtracked by crickets. I'm also not a huge Paige fan.

 

So, WWE apologizes for something that I'd wager 70% or higher of their audience didn't take any offense to or care about - thus, drawing unnecessary attention to their own lame attempt at getting publicity by bringing up a real life tragedy at a time when, as Flair pointed out on his podcast this week, the whole world is mourning even more recent tragedies.

[hammerva]

She wouldn't face this backlash if she came through the indy scene and was known as a big admirer of 80s JCP. Even if she was just as bad.

 

If Eva Marie was in the indies for almost 4 years and sucked at the level she does now, she wouldn't get backlash because nobody would know about her existance. Indy wrestling is flooded with women that are extremely attractive and extremely awful in the ring and it is barely a blip on the radar

 

After seeing the statement, I would be shocked if Charlotte still has the title by the end of Survivor Series unless she comes out and admits that it was her idea even if it wasn't

[goc]

EDIT

[goc]

Talk about digging yourself into a hole and then trying to get out of it by shoveling further down.

 

I know the Reid Flair thing was a big deal in the IWC, especially among older fans who saw/heard about it, but I can tell you - based on the middle school I work at - most kids really didn't even catch it or care and I'm thinking most "casuals" weren't made aware of it unless they frequent boards like this or news sites. Personally, I didn't like the segment - but that's mostly because I feel like it was too obvious a "hail mary" play/uber cheap way to try to get heat for a match that will STILL likely be soundtracked by crickets. I'm also not a huge Paige fan.

 

So, WWE apologizes for something that I'd wager 70% or higher of their audience didn't take any offense to or care about - thus, drawing unnecessary attention to their own lame attempt at getting publicity by bringing up a real life tragedy at a time when, as Flair pointed out on his podcast this week, the whole world is mourning even more recent tragedies.

Yea I really can't believe they released a statement about it at all. People are complaining about it on message boards, why does that suddenly warrant a response? It's not like they're going to release a statement about why the shows are so boring or why they feel like they can't consistently push more than 2 or 3 acts at a time.

[Goodear]

The problem with the heat Eva is getting is that its 'Go Away' heat and not 'Money' heat. Trolling the fan-base is all fine and well if there are some dollar signs at the end, but WWE should learn from TNA. TNA trolled its fans for a long time and now look where they are...back at The Impact Zone and heading to Pop TV with little-to-no fanfare and not making a dime. Eva Marie getting boo'd is not causing people to INVEST themselves like they were when they were booing Sasha, etc. The multiple fans drowning out her promo and turning their backs should be a big heads up to whomever things being boo'd means people are interested and that the person being boo'd is drawing 'good' heat.

 

The whole 'go away' or 'X-Pac' heat thing is such a misguided exercise in trying to explain reality to fit your perception. If you want someone to go away so badly that you boo them, you can expect WWE is going to keep them around for the reaction. If you think that crowd is not going to lose its collective mind on a Eva Marie near fall you are out of your gourd.

[Matt D]

What a strange day.

[Tim Evans]

 

She wouldn't face this backlash if she came through the indy scene and was known as a big admirer of 80s JCP. Even if she was just as bad.

 

If Eva Marie was in the indies for almost 4 years and sucked at the level she does now, she wouldn't get backlash because nobody would know about her existance. Indy wrestling is flooded with women that are extremely attractive and extremely awful in the ring and it is barely a blip on the radar

 

After seeing the statement, I would be shocked if Charlotte still has the title by the end of Survivor Series unless she comes out and admits that it was her idea even if it wasn't

 

She would be Velvet Sky.

 

As for the Flair thing, I think the outrage is just getting ridiculous. If this was another diva whose brother had died like that, I don't think it would get have the hate this is getting. It was in bad taste and shouldn't have happened but the hate is getting annoying.

[sek69]

IMO if anything there's not enough outrage over a billion dollar company being so spineless as to not even take ownership of their tastelessness completely and having to throw an employee -excuse me, Independent Contractor- under the bus.

 

That's the key to me, it's not even that shocking that pro wrestling would exploit death, but they half ass it like they half ass everything else.

[goc]

 

 

She wouldn't face this backlash if she came through the indy scene and was known as a big admirer of 80s JCP. Even if she was just as bad.

 

If Eva Marie was in the indies for almost 4 years and sucked at the level she does now, she wouldn't get backlash because nobody would know about her existance. Indy wrestling is flooded with women that are extremely attractive and extremely awful in the ring and it is barely a blip on the radar

 

After seeing the statement, I would be shocked if Charlotte still has the title by the end of Survivor Series unless she comes out and admits that it was her idea even if it wasn't

 

She would be Velvet Sky.

 

As for the Flair thing, I think the outrage is just getting ridiculous. If this was another diva whose brother had died like that, I don't think it would get have the hate this is getting. It was in bad taste and shouldn't have happened but the hate is getting annoying.

 

Agreed. And I think wrestling is better when it's not worried about being "tasteful" anyway. You can't on one hand complain about that incident and on the other admonish WWE for never taking risks and being too cookie cutter. You can't complain about WWE only booking "cowardly heels" but then get upset as soon as a heel does something to generate real heat. I'm not saying Paige bringing up Charlotte's dead brother is great booking but at least it was WWE taking a risk and trying to create a legit personal issue instead of relying on trading wins to manufacture a feud.

 

With the reaction to this situation I'm inclined to agree with whoever it was that said we're past the point of a heel being able to generate real heat with the way fans react to these situations and WWE's need to worry about maintaining a family friendly facade for it's sponsors.

 

I do agree with sek saying WWE releasing a statement essentially saying "hey it's not our fault it was Charlotte's idea" is bullshit and that's the only thing I think people could legit be outraged about.

[Slasher]

Call me crazy but I can totally see it being Charlotte's idea. She probably doesn't understand the mood of the fans who would see this as exploitative or tasteless. She has been floundering really badly as the champion, probably under a tremendous amount of pressure to make good on the Flair name and the expectations of both the company and of the fans who wonders what she has done to earn this push over people like Sasha or Paige. She probably genuinely thought that it was a good way to earn some sympathy heat. She probably has seen a good amount of wrestling from when her father was around and sbe has probably seen all the tasteless stuff promoters have been doing all these years. If it worked before, why not now? Well obviously the world spins differently now as opposed to back then. I think it was a honest misjudgment on her part BUT I think the blame should be largely placed on the company for going with it and for not knowing in foresight that it would have been a bad idea. I mean, this shit happened back in 2006 with Rey doing the Eddie tribute storyline and Orton's heartwarmkng line to him. Just bad all around.

[fakeplastictrees]

This Paige/Reid/Charlotte is the type of shit I am talking about when I mention WWE's irregular tightrope walk between reality/metaness/entertainment. Honestly, the 'Reality Era' needs to end. This era's 'highlights' include: The Summer of Punk, Daniel Bryan's journey to WM, and what else? Any other time WWE has incorporated reality into its programming, everyone comes off looking bad as the reality is handled with 'Attitude' gloves and molded from there.

[Loss]

Reality has a place, but they seem more interested in using it to hurl insults at their talent in places where there are legitimate vulnerabilities than in sharing stuff like Cesaro's interesting life story, Titus O'Neill getting a Father of the Year award or Daniel Bryan holding off evil burglars. Even Adam Rose, who is not a particularly good worker, had a compelling story on ESPN that could have fueled at least a short-term strong midcard run. Tyson Kidd knocked on death's door and I would be shocked if he gets much fanfare at all around his return when/if it happens. Those are the types of real things they should be leveraging, not smarky perceptions of guys' weaknesses that are used to run them down in promos. It reveals a lot about WWE's aggressive and cynical view of both their fanbase and their talent.

[Matt D]

It's reality in the way a reality show is reality.

 

Which is kind of like kayfabe in some ways if you were constantly shouting "It's kayfabe!" while keeping kayfabe.

 

It's all very strange.

[TravJ1979]

Typical Vince. They do something tasteless -> there is backllash -> Vince shoves it in our face even more to prove a point. This is tried and true VKM.

[fakeplastictrees]

 

The problem with the heat Eva is getting is that its 'Go Away' heat and not 'Money' heat. Trolling the fan-base is all fine and well if there are some dollar signs at the end, but WWE should learn from TNA. TNA trolled its fans for a long time and now look where they are...back at The Impact Zone and heading to Pop TV with little-to-no fanfare and not making a dime. Eva Marie getting boo'd is not causing people to INVEST themselves like they were when they were booing Sasha, etc. The multiple fans drowning out her promo and turning their backs should be a big heads up to whomever things being boo'd means people are interested and that the person being boo'd is drawing 'good' heat.

 

The whole 'go away' or 'X-Pac' heat thing is such a misguided exercise in trying to explain reality to fit your perception. If you want someone to go away so badly that you boo them, you can expect WWE is going to keep them around for the reaction. If you think that crowd is not going to lose its collective mind on a Eva Marie near fall you are out of your gourd.

 

 

I don't think its mis-guided at all. I have been in arenas where people are getting boo'd (Jack Swagger, Drew Mac, etc.) and it wasn't 'Man! This guy is such a heel!' reaction. It was conversation of "Man! I don't like this guy he is so boring!". I had a buddy who went to the NXT Brooklyn show and Eva Marie didn't get boo'd because she is this GREAT HEEL, she was boo'd because people don't want to see hot girl with zero workrate anymore. The Divas for YEARS have floundered on the main roster because no one gives a shit about semi-decent looking models putting on piss poor matches that offer as little fanfare service as it did 10 years ago. In the majority of Divas matches through the years, you could hear a pin drop in the arena once the entrance music stopped playing.

 

I know some people like to pretend Eva Marie is this once-in-a-lifetime heel and I don't understand the end-game. Why are we pretending that an audience that is use to seeing Emma/Paige, Charlotte/Natalie, Banks/Charlotte, Bayley/Banks, Banks/Bayley II, and Banks/Lynch (just to name a few) are all of a sudden also craving matches from the worse worker on the roster? People are booing because they don't want to see her segments, her interviews, her matches, etc. WWE's meta booking is not going to make them any money in this case and if Eva Marie's gimmick is "I am a bad worker, but I am going to be in top matches anyway"....well...again...we shall see how much money that makes WWE. Again, I don't really think this is my own narrative due to me having some axe to grind, but rather a narrative that is pretty damn clear sight and sound.

[Coffey]

I'm a firm believer that there's no such thing as X-Pac Heat or Go Away Heat myself. If anyone getting up & leaving the show or not buying a ticket to the show because Eva Marie is on TV or getting a title shot? Of course not.

[sek69]

I've noticed that NXT has hit some kind of hipster backlash where now it's cool to hate on Bayley and like Eva for purely contrarian reasons. Also NXT crowds are bad now because they have fun and chant things instead of sleeping the whole show like Raw crowds.

[Slasher]

I'm a firm believer that there's no such thing as X-Pac Heat or Go Away Heat myself. If anyone getting up & leaving the show or not buying a ticket to the show because Eva Marie is on TV or getting a title shot? Of course not.

I think it does exist but the fact is, it takes quite a bit for someone to get an actual reaction from people. We have seen thousands of wrestlers working in front of an apathetic crowd that makes not a single sound and just sits on their hands. So by this virtue, the "X-Pac" heat is nearly just as valid and to WWE, valuable heat as legitimate heat is. If we are willing to call the schtick Mick Foley does or any others who gets a Pavlovian reaction as a form of "pop", that being the "cheap pop" which is obviously not as valued as a genuine positive pop like when Rock or Austin comes out, but is still a part of what pro wrestling has been about, then the X-Pac heat is the negative version of the cheap pop. It isn't a perfect analogy but I think it is the best way to view it.

[fakeplastictrees]

I'm a firm believer that there's no such thing as X-Pac Heat or Go Away Heat myself. If anyone getting up & leaving the show or not buying a ticket to the show because Eva Marie is on TV or getting a title shot? Of course not.

 

I don't believe there is anyone in the world looking at a card that includes Austin/Punk, Cena/Taker, Lesnar/Reigns II, etc. and saying "Nope! Not going, because Eva Marie is on the card!". That is a bit extreme. However, I do believe that when Eva Marie comes out there are sighs and sentiments of "Oh man! I just want to see good wrestling!". The last WWE live event I went to I boo'd Orton and Sheamus (not the entire match), because I find them both boring. So Vince (and some other people) might think they have my money, but the truth is I am invested in other aspects of the product that don't include either of those two. If WWE held a show RIGHT DOWN THE STREET from me and the show was FREE, and it had the following wrestlers on it: ADR, Orton, Sheamus, The Ascension, Big Show, and Kane as the only wrestler wrestling in this hour long free show- I would not go. When those guys are on TV, well over 90% of the time I tune out and start doing other stuff. I am not a fan of any of those acts and I find them stale So When I 'boo' or yell 'you suck' at a show, its not because im a huge mark ready to shell out my money to see Orton get his comuppence. Its because I want to see Orton's segment done and over so I can see New Day and other actually entertaining acts.

 

The "Please Retire!" chants Big Show gets might be cutesy for some fans, but for others...they are dead serious. "Go Away" heat exists.

[Jimmy James]

Look, if you were a promoter, and you saw a crowd booing someone so loudly that it actually drowned out their heel promo, aren't you at least going to try to do something with that? I'm not saying that she should be a heel ace like Vader or something, because that probably would kill interest, but trying to use that heat in a role where you can minimize her weak points isn't a terrible idea.

[goc]

Even if her heat is really "go away" heat you can STILL use that. We're in an age where people will buy tickets to Raw solely to go and try to "hijack" the show with chants to show how much they don't like WWE.

 

You can use Eva Marie vs. Bayley as a way to sell tickets for a Takeover show outside of Full Sail by making it seem like Eva is going to win the belt and then you get people who will buy tickets just so they can hate on Eva and show the company the "error of it's ways" by acting like shit heads.