Coffey Posted November 24, 2015 Report Share Posted November 24, 2015 So it looks like standing pat with the same "champ is a toady for the Authority" story just earned them the lowest Raw ratings in 20 years. It's crazy to me that it feels like they don't even give a fuck to even attempt new things either. Last night the show opened with The Authority coming out. I turned the show off right then & there. I came back later & saw the six-man tag with Goldust but then I started playing a video game & didn't care about seeing anymore of RAW. Nothing feels like it matters anymore. It's going to be the same authority figure stuff that it has been since 1998. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jmare007 Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 Yeah, why y'all think Vince hasn't panicked about the ratings like in previous occasions? This has been a steady decline for months now and he hasn't even tried to change things up. Weird. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slasher Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 Because ratings is an extremely outdated system of measuring interest? It amuses me every week someone runs in to report record low ratings each and every week, and I am thinking...you don't get it, do you? No one cares anymore about ratings. Of all the cable television channels out there, Raw would finish in the top 5 ratings for the week, for each and every one of those channels. No, it isn't good to have people tune out, but nobody is putting up much better ratings any week. Even the acclaimed shows like Breaking Bad, never did Raw numbers. So yeah again, total idiocy to care about it. On the Sami thing, someone said that the gimmick was "good"...is this the hacker gimmick you are referring to? If so, no, that is an awful gimmick. What do you even do with a hacker in pro wrestling context? The only way he can make use of those "skills" are in matches he isn't involved in, messing with his opponent's music or video or whatever, but once he steps in that ring, there is nothing he can do to sell thr gimmick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.S. Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 On the Sami thing, someone said that the gimmick was "good"...is this the hacker gimmick you are referring to? If so, no, that is an awful gimmick. What do you even do with a hacker in pro wrestling context? The only way he can make use of those "skills" are in matches he isn't involved in, messing with his opponent's music or video or whatever, but once he steps in that ring, there is nothing he can do to sell thr gimmick. All of that outside stuff would be cool though. But inside the ring, Crowe could've "hacked" distractions on the TitanTron, "hacked" the bell to ring when it wasn't supposed to (they fired the timekeeper, so it's automated now, right?), "hacked" the arena lights to turn off, etc. Outside the ring, "hacking" his opponent's flight itinerary so he misses the show, "hacking" his hotel reservation, etc. (all shown through entertaining skits). Online, "hacking" his opponent's social media accounts, WWE.com, the WWE Network, you name it. Tons of potential here, but the writers were too incompetent to run with it, and Crowe was too much of a goofball to make it work anyway. Right gimmick, wrong guy. He reminded me of the worst mugging excesses of early WWF heel Jericho, without any of the talent or charisma. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jmare007 Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 Because ratings is an extremely outdated system of measuring interest? It amuses me every week someone runs in to report record low ratings each and every week, and I am thinking...you don't get it, do you? No one cares anymore about ratings. Of all the cable television channels out there, Raw would finish in the top 5 ratings for the week, for each and every one of those channels. No, it isn't good to have people tune out, but nobody is putting up much better ratings any week. Even the acclaimed shows like Breaking Bad, never did Raw numbers. So yeah again, total idiocy to care about it. On the Sami thing, someone said that the gimmick was "good"...is this the hacker gimmick you are referring to? If so, no, that is an awful gimmick. What do you even do with a hacker in pro wrestling context? The only way he can make use of those "skills" are in matches he isn't involved in, messing with his opponent's music or video or whatever, but once he steps in that ring, there is nothing he can do to sell thr gimmick. Oh I know ratings don't matter. But to Vince they always did, so it's kinda weird that all of a sudden he doesn't give a fuck anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cm funk Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 So it looks like standing pat with the same "champ is a toady for the Authority" story just earned them the lowest Raw ratings in 20 years. It's getting pretty amazing how completely paralyzed this company seems to be right now. It's like WWE is a turtle that someone flipped over and they are unable to get back up. Not for nothing, but MNF did it's biggest ratings of the season with the Patriots playing a division rival, and it was a very tight game. I know personally I tuned in for the first 20 minutes of RAW to see how they handled things, then stuck with football for the rest of the night other than brief peeks at RAW. I know I'm not the only one. That's not to defend WWE or deny the downward ratings trend due to stale creative and the 3 hours of doom.......but I wouldn't read anything into Survivor Series/Sheamus/Reigns based on a bad number that was going to be bad no matter what happened the night before, short of an ISIS terrorist attack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slasher Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 Because ratings is an extremely outdated system of measuring interest? It amuses me every week someone runs in to report record low ratings each and every week, and I am thinking...you don't get it, do you? No one cares anymore about ratings. Of all the cable television channels out there, Raw would finish in the top 5 ratings for the week, for each and every one of those channels. No, it isn't good to have people tune out, but nobody is putting up much better ratings any week. Even the acclaimed shows like Breaking Bad, never did Raw numbers. So yeah again, total idiocy to care about it. On the Sami thing, someone said that the gimmick was "good"...is this the hacker gimmick you are referring to? If so, no, that is an awful gimmick. What do you even do with a hacker in pro wrestling context? The only way he can make use of those "skills" are in matches he isn't involved in, messing with his opponent's music or video or whatever, but once he steps in that ring, there is nothing he can do to sell thr gimmick. Oh I know ratings don't matter. But to Vince they always did, so it's kinda weird that all of a sudden he doesn't give a fuck anymore. If we are to assume Vince still controls the WWE creatively, which obviously he is, I think it is obvious he has caught on to the fact that the television landscape is much different than it was in Attitude Era or earlier. If not, then you have to think people like Stephanie and Triple H who are naturally probably more privvy to that information has talked Vince into adjusting his expectations. Or worst case, he really just doesn't give a shit anymore. Sami thing again- how do you propose he "hack" into stuff when his head is bouncing off the turnbuckle by his opponent? Is he going to have a tablet with him while wrestling so he can do that stuff? Like I said, the gimmick is good only for the out of ring interference. It can't logically extend into his working style as a character without it looking either contrived or worse, stupid. If he had developed a secondary layer in his character that he could translate while working in matches, then I would say there is something to it, but from the little I have seen of it, he doesn't have it. Agreed about the goofiness of the wrestler himself. I think Sami should have just come in with a similar gimmick as Owens...an indy monster heel who emerges as some dangerous outsider who has the potential to upset tbe WWE ecosystem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steenalized Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 So it looks like standing pat with the same "champ is a toady for the Authority" story just earned them the lowest Raw ratings in 20 years. It's getting pretty amazing how completely paralyzed this company seems to be right now. It's like WWE is a turtle that someone flipped over and they are unable to get back up. But the money is in the chase! And in Triple H promos to start the show., Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 Ratings do matter in the sense that USA likes to brag that they're the #1 cable network and WWE ratings were a large part of that. If WWE's ratings sag to the point where USA loses their bragging point, WWE loses a lot of steam when it comes time to the next renewal time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slasher Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 Even with the saggy rating, what does the USA network have that rivals or even exceeds Raw? All their homegrown shows like Psych, Burn Notice, Monk, and others over the years would be lucky to pull in a rating of 1.0. So in that sense, WWE has nothing to worry about. Wrestling popularity is on the downswing but I guarantee if USA no longer wanted WWE, there would be other media corporations willing to pay for their programming. Failing that, they can always focus exclusively on the WWE Network. They are doing fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 Hacking The Authority's emails and personal files to reveal their top secret evil plans wouldn't be the worst way to debut a new babyface, but I'm not sure where it goes after that. I think it would have to be a character more about uncovering truth, with hacking as a means to an end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 While the TV landscape has changed, most of the talk of the changing nature of television, even if there is truth in it, strikes me as apologist and lets WWE off the hook more than they deserve. The current decline is the result of their inability to create new stars and produce consistently exciting television. I still believe that better television shows with fresh faces would lure people back in. Even if they aren't delivering Attitude Era numbers (which is a high mark that I don't think is a fair comparison), it would be better than this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueminister Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 Because ratings is an extremely outdated system of measuring interest? It amuses me every week someone runs in to report record low ratings each and every week, and I am thinking...you don't get it, do you? No one cares anymore about ratings. Of all the cable television channels out there, Raw would finish in the top 5 ratings for the week, for each and every one of those channels. No, it isn't good to have people tune out, but nobody is putting up much better ratings any week. Even the acclaimed shows like Breaking Bad, never did Raw numbers. So yeah again, total idiocy to care about it. Raw needs bigger ratings to offset their less desirable demographics, comparing Raw numbers favorably to Breaking Bad misses the point entirely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cm funk Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 On Sami Callahan/Solomon Crowe: I didn't see any of his indy stuff (CZW was his main promotion/most exposure?), but I know that he had some buzz and had his fans From what I saw of him in NXT......I didn't get it. He had some personality, okish in the ring.....but definitely didn't transition/translate well to that environment. I could see him in a circa 2015 Crash Holly role maybe? The hacker gimmick or whatever it was? meh. And you can't really blame "creative" because in NXT it's very hands on and the guys and gals there coming up with their own stuff with a lot of freedom. Not as much freedom as the indies, but way more freedom than the main roster Contrast him to "Sterling James Keenan" slash Corey Graves.....who I did see in ROH and some indy stuff and wasn't all that impressed with.....I think he's made a great transition into his current role in WWE and I've become a big fan of him. I was becoming a fan of him in FCW/NXT before he had all the head injuries, and was surprised because he wasn't blowing me out of the water before. The transition to on-screen talking head was out of necessity due to the concussions, but still Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cm funk Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 Also, I'm sure he's a nice guy and he's obviously talented to even get signed by WWE.....but he's probably much better off going back to the indies right now because he was going nowhere in NXT. I hope he proves me wrong and WWE kicks themselves for missing the boat on him. Wouldn't be the first or last time, but from what I saw I just didn't see him ever doing much there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Sorrow Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 I think they probably respect someone who asks to go because he knows it isn't working out right now more than someone who they have to make the decision to cut. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pol Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 Eyeballing it, Raw is down a good 500-700k average viewers from the same period (that is, football season) last year. Even in the face of a changing media landscape it seems a little silly to act like that's irrelevant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slasher Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 It is not irrelevant but the concept of pointing to Nielsen ratings is irrelevant. Loss, I am not excusing the WWE or letting them off the hook by any means. What they have done in losing fans definitely merits a closer look. I just don't think ratings is the measurement in which to use to condemn them. Losing Network subscribers would appear to me as more of a real indicator of poor performance to me than Nielsen ratings. Raw's target demographic is young males...which is pretty much Breaking Bad's target demographic. If you are talking about income, then obviously the fact that the blue chip brands won't advertise with Raw is a major problem but that has been the case since pro wrestling started airing on televisions in the 50s. To me, ratings is just as much of an antiquated argument/notion as "You do know wrestling is fake, right?" Shit just doesn't even apply anymore with how different things are. If they devised a system where they find a composite rating that measured live viewers, DVR viewers and Hulu viewers plus whatever else methods there might be into one tidy number and it proves to be a poor number for Raw, then I am totally in with the idea that Raw sucks (but to be fair, I don't need to look at ratings to know the product sucks, it does suck, period). But the idea of trotting out Nielsen ratings numbers nowadays is just not a good argument anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dexstar Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 I'd love to see, like, 40 minutes of Raw booked by Vince Russo or someone equally nuts every week. Give them a pile of guys they have no intention of ever doing anything meaningful with and go nuts. Something, anything, to break up the snail-paced repetition they are stuck in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimmas Posted November 25, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 I'd love to see, like, 40 minutes of Raw booked by Vince Russo or someone equally nuts every week. Give them a pile of guys they have no intention of ever doing anything meaningful with and go nuts. Something, anything, to break up the snail-paced repetition they are stuck in. I agree, but not Russo. Russo would make this even worse. Bring in Ian Rotten, Dave Prazak, Gabe, Dutch Mantell, Jim Ross, Steve Austin, etc... Actually, it might be nice to do a guest GM, but the guest GM actually oversees creative for the show. As long as they watch the product and help the overall story. Just even for this dead period between Survivor Series and Rumble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.S. Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 Hacking The Authority's emails and personal files to reveal their top secret evil plans wouldn't be the worst way to debut a new babyface, but I'm not sure where it goes after that. I think it would have to be a character more about uncovering truth, with hacking as a means to an end. Agreed. The "hacker" gimmick opens up other larger avenues, such as what you suggested about uncovering the truth. There's a ton that could be done with it, and a heel turn later on would open up even more options. On Sami Callahan/Solomon Crowe: I didn't see any of his indy stuff (CZW was his main promotion/most exposure?), but I know that he had some buzz and had his fans From what I saw of him in NXT......I didn't get it. He had some personality, okish in the ring.....but definitely didn't transition/translate well to that environment. I could see him in a circa 2015 Crash Holly role maybe? The hacker gimmick or whatever it was? meh. And you can't really blame "creative" because in NXT it's very hands on and the guys and gals there coming up with their own stuff with a lot of freedom. Not as much freedom as the indies, but way more freedom than the main roster Contrast him to "Sterling James Keenan" slash Corey Graves.....who I did see in ROH and some indy stuff and wasn't all that impressed with.....I think he's made a great transition into his current role in WWE and I've become a big fan of him. I was becoming a fan of him in FCW/NXT before he had all the head injuries, and was surprised because he wasn't blowing me out of the water before. The transition to on-screen talking head was out of necessity due to the concussions, but still Only "meh" because they did zilch with it. Could have been awesome, for all of the reasons I stated a few posts up. I think the difference between Graves and Crowe is this: Graves wasn't a "name" on the indies, so he's expected to be more raw and have room for improvement. Whereas, Crowe was an indy "name" so for him to be this terrible and goofy is bound to be a massive disappointment compared to someone like a Graves or Baron Corbin who are coming in with less of a "reputation." Different expectations. Also, I'm sure he's a nice guy and he's obviously talented to even get signed by WWE.....but he's probably much better off going back to the indies right now because he was going nowhere in NXT. I hope he proves me wrong and WWE kicks themselves for missing the boat on him. Wouldn't be the first or last time, but from what I saw I just didn't see him ever doing much there I hope he proves people wrong too. I have nothing against him personally. Just wasn't impressed with anything I saw of him in NXT. If he had been a no-name who came up through the system (like many of the current NXT wrestlers), I think he'd have a lot more leeway to be this bad at first. But the fact that he was a "big name" on the indies probably gave him a lot less breathing room to fuck up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 The more I think about it, the more I love the idea of an Anonymous-style release of documents against key personnel in WWE that completely realigns the Creative. Why has HHH been paying Dean Ambrose bonuses every quarter for the past year? Plant seeds of doubt between him and Roman. You could probably come up with 5-6 fresh things out of something like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
...TG Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 The more I think about it, the more I love the idea of an Anonymous-style release of documents against key personnel in WWE that completely realigns the Creative. Why has HHH been paying Dean Ambrose bonuses every quarter for the past year? Plant seeds of doubt between him and Roman. You could probably come up with 5-6 fresh things out of something like that. They sort did that back in the day with GTV, but it quickly devolved into poop jokes and humiliating Mark Henry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 That was more spycam stuff, but this would be something a little bit different, although I still think it would be fresh since the unwritten laws of wrestling state ideas can be recycled after seven years have passed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.S. Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 Brad Maddox released - right before Thanksgiving. Hope it was at his request. http://www.cagesideseats.com/wwe/2015/11/25/9802138/brad-maddox-released-by-wwe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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