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The thing about Walter is that it started to become a gimmick where guys would get killed by chops and wear the marks as a badge of pride. It''s one thing if it's someone fair skinned who gets red marks easily, he's clearly hitting these guys with chops as hard as he can. Which, if you've got the testicular fortitiude to take one, great I suppose. It does seem to miss the point of it all supposed to only *look* like things hurt though.

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13 minutes ago, KawadaSmile said:

I dunno, El-P. Chop sequences nowadays are overdone, yes, but WALTER is such an absurdly strong chopper that if paired against someone like Ilja Dragunov, it can generate an incredible dramatic effect with minimal effort. WALTER is dangerous enough that his chop, a basic wrestling strike, is lethal.

Except you can get the same exact effect by throwing a stiff chop that looks great without busting the other guy's chest. That's not "minimal effort here", that's hitting the other guy as hard as you can. I remember people shitting on Sid back in 2000 because he didn't want to take Benoit's chops, but you know, there's always the argument : its' supposed to look like it hurts. Same as the ridiculous real headbutts or Foley asking Vader to bust his nose for real. It's even more stupid when you're actually a really good worker. Oh anyway, I would probably have popped for the chop if I just saw it... (didn't mean I would not think it's stupid though, I do react to stupid stuff)

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11 minutes ago, sek69 said:

Which, if you've got the testicular fortitiude to take one, great I suppose.

Hey, there you go, suffer for my sadistic pleasure. That's a way to look at things, and I am totally guilty of it at times. Doesn't mean I don't find it dumb as fuck and really low-brow. B)

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*looking at the picture again*

Yeah, it's disgusting and dumb as fuck. If you can't establish a one move killer without having to resort to *this*, well...  

4 minutes ago, Captain Redneck said:

TBH, wrestlers in general, are low-brow.

Time to dig up the old "What is the worse business : porn or pro-wrestling ?" thread. (although pro-wrestling has probably evolved much more in the right direction lately, contrary to porn which is only getting worse and worse)

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44 minutes ago, sek69 said:

The thing about Walter is that it started to become a gimmick where guys would get killed by chops and wear the marks as a badge of pride. It''s one thing if it's someone fair skinned who gets red marks easily, he's clearly hitting these guys with chops as hard as he can. Which, if you've got the testicular fortitiude to take one, great I suppose. It does seem to miss the point of it all supposed to only *look* like things hurt though.

Yeah, Bret Hart was bitching about this over twenty years ago. Wrestling is supposed to be a work & chops hurt. He didn't like to take chops, especially on house shows. Even Flair said Bret was probably right, but it was all he had. :D 

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40 minutes ago, El-P said:

Except you can get the same exact effect by throwing a stiff chop that looks great without busting the other guy's chest. That's not "minimal effort here", that's hitting the other guy as hard as you can. I remember people shitting on Sid back in 2000 because he didn't want to take Benoit's chops, but you know, there's always the argument : its' supposed to look like it hurts. Same as the ridiculous real headbutts or Foley asking Vader to bust his nose for real. It's even more stupid when you're actually a really good worker. Oh anyway, I would probably have popped for the chop if I just saw it... (didn't mean I would not think it's stupid though, I do react to stupid stuff)

"Minimal effort" as in the most basic wrestling move can create a good story, instead of doing needless flips and headdrops - but I get what you are saying.

I just feel that chops are impossible to look good and not hurt. After all, it is a slap to the chest, and even if the one throwing it doesn't have baseball bat arms like Kobashi, any contact strong enough to generate that remarkable echoing sound is going to hurt. There just isn't a way to work around it like they do with punches or kicks, it seems - and dropping it entirely wouldn't work. 

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Chops are a staple in pro wrestling nowadays. They're like Irish whips to me. I just accept them as a part of the game.

But yeah. If we're being honest, they're just ridiculous.

They usually hurt like hell, but they look no more impressive than a phony strike of any kind. In fact, nothing beats a nasty-looking punch or an elbow that really looks like it lands. Wrestlers have found ways to seriously elevate their striking game in modern times, leaving the chop looking like some relic from the past.

And yeah. Chops are not something anyone would EVER do in a shoot environment. ESPECIALLY if we start talking grudges and blood feuds. No two men are going to stand there and slap chest meat. It's beyond fucking silly to imagine, and it's downright embarrassing to be caught watching it in front of anyone outside the wrestling bubble.

They're going to tackle, punch, kick, knee, and maybe even claw. But ain't nobody going Wahoo on a motherfucker's pecs in an actual fight.

Chops are nonsense. Glorious, inexplicable pro wrestling horseshit. It is what it is.

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For me, it depends if the chops are going to be laid in this hard on a regular basis. My initial reaction was that this was ridiculous, but that image of Jack Starz's chest has been all over the internet. People who didn't watch the show will have been that photo, and now WALTER's chop looks lethal to the audience. Now, in theory, he can hit lighter chops and the crowd will buy it as a death move because of that photo. I'm sure Jack Starz is ok, more people know who he is than did one week ago.

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7 hours ago, peachchaos said:

Realistically, a chop is safer than a DDT since broken blood vessels do not equate to concussions in any circumstances.

Well, the idea of good work is not giving the other guy a concussion either. If both guys are good workers, a DDT is both painless and safe. That was the art of pro-wrestling. I remember Bruce Prichard mentionning how taking the DDT from Jake Roberts was the easiest bump he ever took.

Let's say you're a worker. What would you rather take ? A piledriver from prime Jerry Lawler or a chop from Walter ? The other day on Fantastica Mania, 50 year old Liger did his brainbuster on 48 years old Mima Shimoda (she was alongside Okamura). It looked great. I'm pretty sure she barely felt it.

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