NXT talk

[C.S.]

Roderick Strong is good in the ring but has zero personality.

 

Whereas, Roode is strong character-wise but a bore in the ring.

 

Eric Young is really who I don't care about on any level.

[C.S.]

I caught debut of the Velveteen Dream (Patrick Clark). I'm not quite sold on the gimmick, and Clark doesn't seem entirely comfortable with it yet, but he was much more impressive in the ring than I was expecting him to be.

[Ricky Jackson]

Ciampa with a man-sized promo tonight. Maybe not 100% heel but 100% authentic

[broke]

Glad to see Danny Burch finally get some shine. The guy's still far too talented to just be squash fodder.

 

Ciampa's still going to get cheered by some of the crowd no matter what he does or how hard he turns on them.

[Sean Liska]

I know I'm not breaking new ground here, but I'm so amused by this Roderick Strong push that's been happening over the past few weeks. NXT has done a nice job using marketing concepts from ECW and peak ROH to brand themselves as an underground alternative and to get their fan base to buy into it. But underneath it all HHH is so damn old-school. Like Jim Cornette old-school at his heart.

They may be heading for Strong-Roode at Takeover Brooklyn. How do they get Roderick ready for this big spot, for this product primarily consumed by dudes in their 20s and 30s? By having him kick the heads off a bunch of dudes and be a badass rebel or whatever? No, they do an video package highlighting his youth and his family and travails and all this emotional stuff. Then they do an emotional video package on his wife and child. Then he comes out and cuts a promo about how it's not him vs the world anymore, its him with his wife and child vs the world. He's cornier than the Ricky Steamboat character that got turned on by much less cynical 1989 NWA fans. But it's so well done that it's working! The heel with the cool entrance came out and made fun of Roddy's sentimentality and had some funny jokes, and no one cheered for him. They all back the guy who's just doing this for his family.

I know this isn't new to NXT and they've done similar things with characters like Zayn and Bayley, but I'm just impressed by HHH's ability to defeat the cynicism of his young adult audience and successfully do 1983 wrestling with modern presentation.

[jcmmnx]

I doubt Roddy gets the Takeover match they've got another two months of tv to fill. Oney vs Itami was really good, and Oney has become the best short tv match worker in NXT. Embarrassing gimmick for Sarah Logan(they actually pay people to come up with that shit lol).

Lars Sullivan should be getting a push as NXT's resident monster.

[sek69]

Hope they move Lars to being a single soon before they end up making him look like a goof who keeps losing matches because he teams up with hapless geeks.

[topropepodcast]

I really hope it's not Roode vs Strong. I definitely don't want two months of Roddy promos. Even when short, they're not exactly sweet.

[The Thread Killer]

Hope they move Lars to being a single soon before they end up making him look like a goof who keeps losing matches because he teams up with hapless geeks.

 

I remember waaayyy back when they used that gimmick to get Cactus Jack over during his initial run in WCW. He'd team with some scrub against an established team, his partner would take the fall, and then after the match he'd go batshit on his partner and give him a beating, which would usually culminate with that wicked elbow drop from the apron to the concrete outside. (You know...the move which was most likely the key reason Mick Foley just needed a hip replaced.)

 

Anyhow, that was what...27 years ago? And I still remember it, without having ever seen footage of it since. Maybe that idea would work on getting Lars over, who knows.

[Sean Liska]

OK maybe I'm off on Strong headlining Takeover but I just love NXT getting over a white meat babyface story with modern smark fans that even 1989 NWA fans rejected. Love how NXT at heart is 1983 wrestling with modern presentation and marketing.

[stro]

I'm pretty positive they wouldn't buy into that angle if it was a random PC guy.

[Johnny Sorrow]

Well, that's the point.

[stro]

Well, that's the point.

Is it? It's arguably more cynical that they'd only buy that angle for a guy with indie cred.

[SomethingSavage]

So what? Those fans are digging it. They're buying it. Why would anyone be bothered by their reasons for liking something?

The product being pimped and promoted almost always seems to be in line with what the fans want. That, to me, is perhaps the most endearing thing about NXT.

You could list out every name of every guy to be NXT Champion since the 2012 relaunch, and you'd find a total of 2 of 'em that didn't get there on the backs of their indie cred.

 

This is hardly a new, sudden shift in direction for them or anything.

Personally? I certainly prefer Roddy as the arrogant, obnoxious douchebag heel. So I'm pleasantly surprised by what they've done with him (as a character) and just how well it's coming across. Don't expect him to light the world on fire as a personality or anything, because it's just never been his greatest strength AT ALL. Doesn't mean he isn't doing well enough as an in-ring babyface though.

[Sean Liska]

 

Well, that's the point.

Is it? It's arguably more cynical that they'd only buy that angle for a guy with indie cred.

 

 

It just needs to be someone that's over. If they decided to tweak Enzo's character and flesh him out I think the crowd would have responded the same way. Well, maybe not Enzo because that's not what people want from him, but you know what I mean, someone who's over but didn't come from the indies.

[Coffey]

So what? Those fans are digging it. They're buying it. Why would anyone be bothered by their reasons for liking something?

 

The product being pimped and promoted almost always seems to be in line with what the fans want. That, to me, is perhaps the most endearing thing about NXT.

 

NXT should be used to get people ready for the main roster, not to make people be over in NXT. Ascension & Bayley were both over in NXT & have failed on the main roster. Blame it on booking or whatever but the characters have no connected.

 

If Roderick Strong is going to be called-up to the main roster, bland family man is not going to work.

 

It feels like it sort of sets people up for failure if they do get called-up. It also, as a fan, makes me feel like people are better off a lot of the time staying in NXT, which is the opposite of what a developmental system should be doing. But they wanna tour with NXT at the same time & put a bunch of Independent names on the card. It's just... I don't know, confusing.

[Ricky Jackson]

Ascension were booked as geeks from day one on main roster. Bayley was super over at one point. Owens, Joe, Sasha, Charlotte, Bliss, Baylor, etc have all done fine on main roster. Plus the Shield...

[El-P]

NXT is a fantasy world so HHH get stroke his dick and show he can "manage a promotion" while getting lip service from smart marks because he's doing "old-school wrestling " with IndyDarlings™. It develops zilch. WWE is now buying talent all over the place, to the point of putting small women japanese promotions in difficult situations and trying to screw with the active UK indy scene.

 

Of course, we get some damn cool stuff and cards out of it. But let's not be naive. It's a smoke screen for WWE's agressive expension strategy, much like the cruiser show (a huge failure) and the UK show (and a women show to come ?). The Main Brand is what matters. And whoever Vince wants to see succeed in it will be pushed. Others will get god awful bookings and get lost quickly. Cf the idiotic and useless booking of Bayley (and let's not even talk about American Alpha nor Sami Zayn).

[Jimmy Redman]

I think the key there is that they have no idea how to book a super white meat babyface on the main roster.

[Ricky Jackson]

I feel people get too hung up on the Performance Center/developing talent aspect of NXT, like if they are not churning out superstars from scratch at a furious clip then everything is a total failure. Does it really matter where the talent comes from and how they make it to the main roster?

[El-P]

Does it really matter where the talent comes from and how they make it to the main roster?

 

In the grand scheme of things, no.

 

But as far as debunking WWE's ridiculous storytelling, yes.

[The Thread Killer]

NXT is a fantasy world so HHH get stroke his dick and show he can "manage a promotion" while getting lip service from smart marks because he's doing "old-school wrestling " with IndyDarlings™. It develops zilch.

 

I don't think that is a fair or accurate statement. I think after WCW and ECW died, NXT became a necessity. Lets say WWE becomes interested in a guy who is making a big buzz on the independent scene. Just because the guy knows a bunch of moves, and how to get a reaction from the crowd, it doesn't mean he's ready to be on RAW. A lot of those guys have never even been on TV before, they've never had to cut regular promos in front of a camera, or learned how to do any of the logistical things you need to learn to perform on television, knowing how to work to the hard camera, etc.

 

Not to mention, WWE has their own massive list of things performers aren't allowed to do or say. What moves are banned, what phrases and words they can and can't use, and all that nonsense. Newcomers to WWE need to learn that stuff somewhere and they need somewhere to practice working "WWE style" before heading straight to the main roster. Plus, they get practice working a schedule of TV tapings and live events so WWE officials can evaluate them and see how they adapt.

 

Plus, just the mere existence of the Performance Center as part of NXT is such a great way for guys to rehab injuries and get back into "ring shape" so they don't return from long layoffs and end up having to work out the kinks on the main shows. On top of that, NXT is a great place to rehab or reboot workers creatively into a more viable character. Whether you love him or hate him, Windham Rotunda had to go somewhere to undergo the transition from Husky Harris to Bray Wyatt, and NXT gave him that chance. Ditto Tye Dillinger.

 

You can't just write off all of NXT as a Triple H vanity project. I think Vince has made it abundantly clear over the years that he couldn't give less of a shit what so-called "smart marks" think of his product, so I hardly think the purpose of NXT is to exclusively cater to them, either.

 

The real issue with NXT is two-fold. Firstly, the crowd at Full Sail does tend to be a "smarkier" crowd, so just because somebody is popular with them it is not a guarantee of wider success on the main roster. But worse, there is clearly a difference in the creative teams between NXT and the Main Roster. It was obvious from the get-go that the creative team had no serious intention of pushing The Ascension. (And perhaps justifiably so, because I'm not convinced they don't suck.) Same with The Vaudevillians, same with Apollo Crews, same with Tyler Breeze up until about a month ago. I do wonder why they bother calling some of these acts up to the main roster if they already know ahead of time they aren't going to use them for much.

 

But regardless, I really don't see a logical argument for claiming that NXT is not a viable developmental program.

[C.S.]

Great post, Thread Killer. I'm not convinced the WWE didn't originally have plans for The Ascension though. They were booked strongly in the beginning and even scored a clean, decisive victory over Attitude Era legends the New Age Outlaws. The problem was, they went from having a unique look in NXT to becoming bad Road Warriors knockoffs the minute they showed up on Raw, and they didn't get over as a result. Also, they really weren't ever that good, which didn't help.

 

The Vaudevillians, I think, were always going to be a lost cause on the main roster. Simon Botch's botching and supposed backstage attitude probably didn't help though.

 

Apollo Crews never, ever should have been called up from NXT. He wasn't over with the "THIS IS AWESOME!" Full Sail smarks, so what on earth made them think he'd fare better on the main roster? As of now, he still has no personality, no character, nothing that defines him. He needed another year at least in NXT and I still think he should be sent back down there.

 

Breeze, I agree, was botched on the main roster, but he was never used as anything other than a glorified JTTS in NXT, so we realistically shouldn't have expected anything more. But he did beat Dolph Ziggler when that still meant something, so I'm not sure what happened? Maybe his mismatched pairing with Summer Rae hurt him? Such a shame, because he's really good and deserves better. Hopefully now he's finally getting it.

[El-P]

I never said I was fair.

 

I dunno. Bobby Rhode is basically himself from TNA, the gimmick he's been doing for 10 years now. With that godawful and annoying Glorious bit. Nakamura's aura was arguably reduced by working a year in NXT (although nothing compared to that awful match with Ziggler). Samoa Joe came in a star from years in TNA & ROH.

 

At this point, OVW still wins the award for turning up stars from scratch.

[Jimmy Redman]

If you think Nakamura's aura was diminished by NXT I question whether you are watching the same shows. When he debited on SD people were singing every note of his song. They built a PPV around his in ring debut. Him just showing up is a special event. None of that happens without NXT and him getting over like gang busters there.