Matt D Posted February 19, 2016 Report Share Posted February 19, 2016 This is new ground, but I would lean towards them aping previous WWE products more than some sort of ideal, at least until we know more. I think it's almost more likely they have some NXT style obstacle cousre challenges than we get straight up tournament matches ever week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted February 19, 2016 Report Share Posted February 19, 2016 Guys who could be in this: Kalisto Neville Austin Aries Finn Balor Sami Zayn Tye Dillinger Biff Busick La Sombra Rich Swann Those are the main guys under contract I can see that would fit the tournament. That's a lot of outside guys coming in to fill 32 slots. Yeah, there's a good chance most of these guys won't be in it as HHH has expressed he's looking to get some guys from around the world and indies to participate in this. This isn't an NXT thing either, so they may keep Andrade off TV until this thing rolls around so they can push him in it. Conversely, having him win it then debut in NXT as the guy who won the tournament wouldn't be the worst way to start him off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infinit Posted February 19, 2016 Report Share Posted February 19, 2016 Not every match, especially the first round, should be going 10-15 minutes. There should be more than enough time for a 32 man tourney. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slasher Posted February 20, 2016 Report Share Posted February 20, 2016 Guys who could be in this: Kalisto Neville Austin Aries Finn Balor Sami Zayn Tye Dillinger Biff Busick La Sombra Rich Swann Those are the main guys under contract I can see that would fit the tournament. That's a lot of outside guys coming in to fill 32 slots. Yeah, there's a good chance most of these guys won't be in it as HHH has expressed he's looking to get some guys from around the world and indies to participate in this. This isn't an NXT thing either, so they may keep Andrade off TV until this thing rolls around so they can push him in it. Conversely, having him win it then debut in NXT as the guy who won the tournament wouldn't be the worst way to start him off. On the other hand, it could be a bad thing to do. Obviously there is a built in expectation with the fans that cruiserweights have to be superheroes flying around. Establishing the guy in that light then pitting him against bigger or less athletic guys in NXT who has the office's support (like say...Baron Corbin) and he could come across as somewhat disappointing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted February 20, 2016 Report Share Posted February 20, 2016 Supposedly, a lot of this is being conceived as an idea to get La Sombra over big right out of the gate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.L.L. Posted February 20, 2016 Report Share Posted February 20, 2016 Supposedly, a lot of this is being conceived as an idea to get La Sombra over big right out of the gate. I preface what I'm about to say by noting this whole thing looks really fun and exciting, so I don't want to be too much of a Negative Nelly. Also, I was a big fan of Sombra as a cocky dickhead shitkicker in the Ingobernables. That said, high-flyer spot machine Sombra - which I'm guessing is what Manny is gonna be if this is their plan - was basically a higher floor/lower ceiling Mistico. Not sure it's a good booking move to showcase him by putting in a tournament with a bunch of more interesting wrestlers. But again, want to clarify that this tournament sounds absolutely awesome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted February 20, 2016 Report Share Posted February 20, 2016 They remain steadfast in their attempt to create a new Rey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slasher Posted February 21, 2016 Report Share Posted February 21, 2016 But see, this is something they are going to have to be truly committed to do. A vanity vehicle for Andrade doesn't work if he comes on Raw being booked like Kalisto after that tournament. They have to book him like they did Rey when he came in, but probably even stronger than so. He needs quality wins and even probably needs to beat someone with name value outright in a feud. Otherwise it all will not matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fakeplastictrees Posted February 21, 2016 Report Share Posted February 21, 2016 Slasher my friend, all I can say is lower your expectations. This is a company that had so many golden opportunities and pissed them away in terms of making a star/creating special moments. Dolph Ziggler post 2014 Survivor Series, the whole Daniel Bryan mess, Taker getting his WM win back from Lesnar at SS later that year, Rusev's all mighty fall post WM loss to John Cena, whatever the fuck they are doing with Bray Wyatt,etc. Whomever wins the tournament will be working Main Event/Superstars within 6 months and will be trading wins with Jack Swagger while slowly building toward the 'money' program with Stardust. I am on your side. I want to see WWE do something magical and make this tournament matter, but its not going to mean dick in WWE canon and that's really sad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.L.L. Posted February 21, 2016 Report Share Posted February 21, 2016 They remain steadfast in their attempt to create a new Rey. Yeah, but that would've required hiring a guy with "new Rey" potential, like Dragon Lee or Aerostar. Instead, they made the same stupid mistake they made when hiring Sin Cara: this guy's strengths are much different than Rey's strengths, but instead of finding a guy who actually fits the Rey role, they just hired the pushed masked lucha flyer because surely they're all alike. If this really the plan, I think it's a massive testament to my theory that HHH's brilliant vision of WWE's future as demonstrated on NXT is really just Ryan Ward's vision, and HHH is no more of wrestling visionary than he was when he made his very first mistake in this role...which he is apparently about to repeat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parties Posted February 21, 2016 Report Share Posted February 21, 2016 RAW is death towards everyone right now. They've even kept Styles as a primarily Smackdown act right now, just to keep him away from the painful three-hour caravan of shame. This might be a case of me showing a certain smark bias, but it seems like you'd genuinely have a better chance of selling merch and getting over in NXT right now than the average guy does on on the main roster. With regard to "making a new Rey", I think people sometimes underplay how much the success of Rey/Angle/Edge/Eddie in '02-'07 was based on SD being on syndicated TV. If you went to a lot of bars/restaurants/businesses on a Thursday/Friday night, they'd be playing Smackdown on TV during it's UPN/CW run. Now that it's all cable, I never see it anywhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slasher Posted February 21, 2016 Report Share Posted February 21, 2016 Slasher my friend, all I can say is lower your expectations. This is a company that had so many golden opportunities and pissed them away in terms of making a star/creating special moments. Dolph Ziggler post 2014 Survivor Series, the whole Daniel Bryan mess, Taker getting his WM win back from Lesnar at SS later that year, Rusev's all mighty fall post WM loss to John Cena, whatever the fuck they are doing with Bray Wyatt,etc. Whomever wins the tournament will be working Main Event/Superstars within 6 months and will be trading wins with Jack Swagger while slowly building toward the 'money' program with Stardust. I am on your side. I want to see WWE do something magical and make this tournament matter, but its not going to mean dick in WWE canon and that's really sad. Oh don't get me wrong, I have every expectation that they will fail in this, like they fail in just about everything. I've been called out on this board for being a negative nelly here so I'm attempting to approach things differently. But yes, they will fail, no doubt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Evans Posted February 21, 2016 Report Share Posted February 21, 2016 Manny is more a new Del Rio than new Rey Jr. Of course, I've always been confused what the "new Rey Jr" meant. No one can be the new Rey Jr. It's just a different time. I'm looking forward to this show. It probably won't mean anything in the long run but I'm looking forward to seeing some good wrestling live. As for what S.L.L is saying, Based on what I've seen, Manny is more like rudo sombra than his old high flying days.I mean his finisher is double knees to the corner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.L.L. Posted February 21, 2016 Report Share Posted February 21, 2016 Manny is more a new Del Rio than new Rey Jr. Of course, I've always been confused what the "new Rey Jr" meant. No one can be the new Rey Jr. It's just a different time. I'm looking forward to this show. It probably won't mean anything in the long run but I'm looking forward to seeing some good wrestling live. As for what S.L.L is saying, Based on what I've seen, Manny is more like rudo sombra than his old high flying days.I mean his finisher is double knees to the corner. In that case, I take back everything I said. Rudo Sombra is awesome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fakeplastictrees Posted February 21, 2016 Report Share Posted February 21, 2016 I think when people say they want a new Mysterio, what they mean is that they want a new lucha that can work with small guys, big guys, and everyone in between while looking absolutely credible and delivering amazing feats that make you rewind the match. Rey Mysterio was a fucking highlight reel and was always entertaining to see and he was a natural underdog. No real promo time, no huge merch push (outside the masks), no main event slots, and he was over as fuck and was the ultimate babyface. The Rey Mysterio character was too simple not to fail, so of course Bischoff has Mysterio remove his mask, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoS Posted February 21, 2016 Report Share Posted February 21, 2016 I think when people say they want a new Mysterio, what they mean is that they want a new lucha that can work with small guys, big guys, and everyone in between while looking absolutely credible and delivering amazing feats that make you rewind the match. Rey Mysterio was a fucking highlight reel and was always entertaining to see and he was a natural underdog. No real promo time, no huge merch push (outside the masks), no main event slots, and he was over as fuck and was the ultimate babyface. The Rey Mysterio character was too simple not to fail, so of course Bischoff has Mysterio remove his mask, etc. They did try very hard with Sin Cara, at least as first. I haven't seen any of his Mexico work, but a lot of lucha experts say that he was fundamentally different from Mysterio, in that he was completely used to working on top and being a dominant babyface. They should have really sent him to developmental, so that he could learn the style he would be working in WWE, because there was no chance of him being pushed that way. I am not sure anyone would ever be as over as Mysterio was in the Mysterio role - he was the perfect case of the right man possessing the right skills at the right time - but Cara could have been much over than he got. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted February 21, 2016 Report Share Posted February 21, 2016 What I mean by WWE aiming to recreate Rey is that they seem to think if they can find a masked Mexican twice the size of Rey, he will be twice as big a star. They never understood *why* Rey was over, and only sometimes understood that he was at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Sorrow Posted February 21, 2016 Report Share Posted February 21, 2016 Kallisto is the guy they're going with for that role and he's tiny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckScumm Posted February 21, 2016 Report Share Posted February 21, 2016 Here's hoping they use "Speedball" Mike Bailey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcmmnx Posted February 22, 2016 Report Share Posted February 22, 2016 So apparently Kota Ibushi is now a free agent. interesting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeg Posted February 27, 2016 Report Share Posted February 27, 2016 Hypothetically.... Biff Sombra Ibushi Itami Balor Zayn Kalisto Kendrick Gable Sin Cara II Rich Swann Simon Gotch Breeze Aries Neville Xavier Wood Gargano and at least 15 more guys... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goc Posted February 27, 2016 Report Share Posted February 27, 2016 When we are talking about WWE wanting to make a "new Rey" let's not overthink it. It's not about them wanting to find a guy who WRESTLES like Rey so much as find someone who can almost exclusively sell tickets and merchandise to a Latino audience. During the height of Rey's popularity and especially during the telenovela like feud with Eddie there were reports of whole sections of the audience at house shows leaving after the Eddie/Rey match because that's all they were there for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Sorrow Posted February 27, 2016 Report Share Posted February 27, 2016 When we are talking about WWE wanting to make a "new Rey" let's not overthink it. It's not about them wanting to find a guy who WRESTLES like Rey so much as find someone who can almost exclusively sell tickets and merchandise to a Latino audience. And not just the Latino audience, kids in general who love a little guy in a cool mask who's a hero. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slasher Posted February 28, 2016 Report Share Posted February 28, 2016 No, they pretty much wants a guy who wrestles like Rey. Remember the stories about them signing guys like Ultimo Dragon and being disappointed he didn't fly around the ring like Rey. They are definitely on the lookout for quite nearly literally the "next Rey Mysterio". A guy who does what Rey used to do and getting over with that. They've only been able to find guys who wrestled like that but that the audiences didn't care about or guys who had superhero like qualities in their character but that didn't do the eye opening spots that they liked seeing Rey do. Thry haven't found a guy who combines all those expectations to make the next Rey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Posted February 28, 2016 Report Share Posted February 28, 2016 Does anyone else remember that 12-or-so-year period when everyone was looking for "The Next Hulk Hogan"? And what the WWF ended up with was... Steve Austin, who couldn't have been much less like Hogan if he'd tried (Steve-O-Mania bit aside). And when they went looking for "The Next Steve Austin" they ended up with John Cena who, again, wasn't much like Steve Austin at all. What I'm saying is that if WWE are really looking for a carbon copy of Rey Mysterio, then they're not learning from history (surprise, surprise) and are going to shoot themselves in the foot by hiring a bunch of little guys in masks who jump off the ropes but don't connect with the audience. If anything, "The Next Rey Mysterio" is more likely to be someone like Finn Bálor, since nobody's really done the whole bodypaint/mask/tassels transformation thing on that scale yet, and I can see that catching on huge with kids when it hits the main roster. It's new, it's cool, it's different, and it's not just some guy cosplaying as someone who used to be a big TV star 6-14 years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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