Matt D Posted March 2, 2016 Report Share Posted March 2, 2016 I tell you they are trying to do this weird thing where HHH is the babyface "for the hardcores" and Reigns is the babyface for the kids and women. It is hideous but that is what they are going for. Definitely. It's what they did in 2006 with Cena in Reigns' current position. Cena was just much better equipped and better established to handle the blowback. Plus, the company a decade ago at least had some strong heels being groomed for Cena to work with after the Triple H program was over. What would we even have in 2016? Reigns vs Owens? Reigns vs Jericho? I half bet they'd do Reigns vs Show or Kane. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjh Posted March 2, 2016 Report Share Posted March 2, 2016 Sean Waltman's story is hard to believe as it was told. Triple H might have lobbied hard for the Reigns match once Seth was injured though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMJ Posted March 2, 2016 Report Share Posted March 2, 2016 I tell you they are trying to do this weird thing where HHH is the babyface "for the hardcores" and Reigns is the babyface for the kids and women. It is hideous but that is what they are going for. Definitely. It's what they did in 2006 with Cena in Reigns' current position. Cena was just much better equipped and better established to handle the blowback. Plus, the company a decade ago at least had some strong heels being groomed for Cena to work with after the Triple H program was over. What would we even have in 2016? Reigns vs Owens? Reigns vs Jericho? I half bet they'd do Reigns vs Show or Kane. I'm not saying any of these guys have been built-up as well as Edge was in 06', but just looking at the heel side of things, you do have Owens, Rusev, Del Rio, Wyatt, and, based on last week, Ryback. Fortunately, none are even super necessary when you also have Rollins, Orton, and Cena coming back this spring/summer. Throw in a rematch with Triple H in May (maybe a 3-way with Dean?) and a WM31 rematch with Lesnar down the line... Are all these ideas fresh? Not exactly...but I count at least 3 real strong challengers (Brock, Cena, Rollins), 2-3 really passable Network Era challengers (Orton, HHH in a rematch, Ambrose), and at least 1-2 "It will take work, but they can get there" challengers in Owens and Rusev before the names Kane and Big Show will ever need to be uttered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingus Posted March 2, 2016 Report Share Posted March 2, 2016 I'm trying to understand if this is an argument for or against Dylan's theory because as I understand it this is essentially what Dylan is saying as well. That being HHH is intentionally making Reigns look bad to make himself look better both on screen and backstage leaving himself in the predominate position to personally anoint all future "Superstars" and take over control of the company.I wouldn't be surprised if Hunter honestly doesn't understand how the portrayal of his character is counterproductive to what they're trying to do with Reigns and others. We've seen countless times that wrestlers who also book almost inevitably fall into the trap of genuinely believing that putting themselves personally over is somehow what's best for business as a whole. He might legitimately think that all his destruction of Roman will just make the eventual Wrestlemania comeuppance mean that much more and solidify Reigns that much harder as the new top guy, for having overcome all that adversity. Of course, the counterargument is a single word: Kliq. HHH is one of the core members of a group which is notorious for being unwilling to look weak, and even when forced into doing a job often find a way to make the winner look worse than themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.L.L. Posted March 2, 2016 Report Share Posted March 2, 2016 BRYAN: "Yeah, here's the problem with that theory. Why would HHH want to sabotage Roman Reigns and ensure that when he goes out there in the main event of Wrestlemania, no one cares?" DAVE: "Exactly." Wait, so is this Dave Meltzer and Bryan Alvarez, noted long-time wrestling insiders, or just two guys who happened to be named Dave and Bryan, genuinely baffled at the possibility that someone in the wrestling business might have questionable motives for making shitty booking decisions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luchaundead Posted March 2, 2016 Report Share Posted March 2, 2016 It's actually Dave & Buster from the restaurant/arcade chain Dave & Buster's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodhelmet Posted March 2, 2016 Report Share Posted March 2, 2016 No one denies Hunter's smart business wise, are we really supposed to believe he doesn't know what he's doing here? Wait... what? What has Hunter done for business that is so smart for the good of business? Putting over Daniel Bryan and Batista. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russellmania Posted March 2, 2016 Report Share Posted March 2, 2016 No one denies Hunter's smart business wise, are we really supposed to believe he doesn't know what he's doing here? Wait... what? What has Hunter done for business that is so smart for the good of business? Putting over Daniel Bryan and Batista. uhhhh NXT and the performance center? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luchaundead Posted March 2, 2016 Report Share Posted March 2, 2016 No one denies Hunter's smart business wise, are we really supposed to believe he doesn't know what he's doing here? Wait... what? What has Hunter done for business that is so smart for the good of business? Putting over Daniel Bryan and Batista. uhhhh NXT and the performance center? Actually the whole premise of investors doubting HHH as the next in line to run the company is that they question his business smarts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted March 2, 2016 Report Share Posted March 2, 2016 BRYAN: "Yeah, here's the problem with that theory. Why would HHH want to sabotage Roman Reigns and ensure that when he goes out there in the main event of Wrestlemania, no one cares?" DAVE: "Exactly." Wait, so is this Dave Meltzer and Bryan Alvarez, noted long-time wrestling insiders, or just two guys who happened to be named Dave and Bryan, genuinely baffled at the possibility that someone in the wrestling business might have questionable motives for making shitty booking decisions? Seriously. See Wrestlemania 18, where HHH was happy to sabotage himself as long as he sabotaged Jericho more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slasher Posted March 2, 2016 Report Share Posted March 2, 2016 The thing is...he really doesn't need to be business savvy. The investors would be misguided if they were to think that way. I think Triple H would obviously be a key piece and leader of anything to do with the creative side of the company but he's likely not gonna be expected to be the guy to go to meetings with network executives or advertising/marketing guys or anything like that. I think that is where Stephanie and/or Shane would be responsible for those duties. I don't buy that once Vince goes that it'd just be Stephanie and Hunter at the top. Shane is going to figure in their plans, I'd bet anything on that. Shane only has to point out his companies and how he ran them as a proof the investors would be comfortable. To a lesser extent the same would be true for Stephanie and the work she's done the past...how long has it been? 15 years? That is a big enough sample for the investors to judge her on. As for Triple H, he is most definitely a bright mind when it comes to pro wrestling. I don't think his burying people is evidence that he lacks such a mind. He knows how to manipulate people. He's the one who got Bruno back in association with the WWE. I think the Warrior HoF deal was his too (could be wrong on this one though). His problem isn't stupidity. It is ego. Unlike Vince who also had a big ego, Triple H's connection to the health of the company isn't as strong. Vince literally lived for WWE. If it died, his professional career was probably over. Triple H doesn't have the same intimacy as Vince. So he is more prone to let his ego get in the way of what's best for business. So that's where we are at I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luchaundead Posted March 2, 2016 Report Share Posted March 2, 2016 The thing is...he really doesn't need to be business savvy. The investors would be misguided if they were to think that way. I think Triple H would obviously be a key piece and leader of anything to do with the creative side of the company but he's likely not gonna be expected to be the guy to go to meetings with network executives or advertising/marketing guys or anything like that. I think that is where Stephanie and/or Shane would be responsible for those duties. I don't buy that once Vince goes that it'd just be Stephanie and Hunter at the top. Shane is going to figure in their plans, I'd bet anything on that. Shane only has to point out his companies and how he ran them as a proof the investors would be comfortable. To a lesser extent the same would be true for Stephanie and the work she's done the past...how long has it been? 15 years? That is a big enough sample for the investors to judge her on. As for Triple H, he is most definitely a bright mind when it comes to pro wrestling. I don't think his burying people is evidence that he lacks such a mind. He knows how to manipulate people. He's the one who got Bruno back in association with the WWE. I think the Warrior HoF deal was his too (could be wrong on this one though). His problem isn't stupidity. It is ego. Unlike Vince who also had a big ego, Triple H's connection to the health of the company isn't as strong. Vince literally lived for WWE. If it died, his professional career was probably over. Triple H doesn't have the same intimacy as Vince. So he is more prone to let his ego get in the way of what's best for business. So that's where we are at I guess. The problem is the the stock market is all built on speculation so even if the investors are misguided it becomes the truth when they decide to sell and tank the perceived value of the company because they don't trust HHH on the business side Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted March 2, 2016 Report Share Posted March 2, 2016 Hunter is smart in the sense that he knows what moves to make to ensure he comes out of any feud looking better than anyone else. He's making sure he gets the babyface reaction when he brawls with Roman, He makes sure he can get in lines no one else can say (like saying he thought Dean's craziness was just a gimmick) or no one is allowed to react to. His character never shows weakness that isn't immediately retconned the next day, and somehow this is the guy who's going to cement Roman as the new ace? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted March 2, 2016 Report Share Posted March 2, 2016 He's the new Dusty isn't he Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted March 2, 2016 Report Share Posted March 2, 2016 He's the new Dusty isn't he That reminds me on Shake Them Ropes, I think it was Jeff who said he would bet that at some point in the next few shows Dean Ambrose will be saying how he respects Triple H in the build to their match. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.L.L. Posted March 2, 2016 Report Share Posted March 2, 2016 He's the new Dusty isn't he I get what you're aiming at here, but a mic worker as shitty as HHH should never be considered the new Dusty regardless of the reason for comparison, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slasher Posted March 2, 2016 Report Share Posted March 2, 2016 Feels like the last time someone got an one liner over Triple H was Rob Van Dam back in 2002 when he made fun of his amazing ability to spit on himself during his prematch routine. After that I can't remember anyone else ever being allowed to do that. Maybe Punk in his pipe bomb but what he said about him was tame in comparison to the other guys he ripped to shreds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingus Posted March 3, 2016 Report Share Posted March 3, 2016 Wasn't the mic finally cut off in Punk's original pipebomb promo when he finally got around to bashing Triple H? And come to think of it, Trips has always made damn sure to stay far, far away from The Rock whenever Dwayne is back in town. The only interaction I remember them having in the past dozen years was the segment at last year's Mania, which was obviously scripted from beginning to end and didn't allow any room for Rock to start hitting improv insults on HHH. In fact, HHH seemed to go extra far out of his way to avoid ever really putting Rock over. From the year 2001 onward, they only wrestled six times on TV, and none of those matches ended with Rock pinning Hunter. And even before that, the win-loss record was pretty dismal: I just went back and counted, and Rock wrestled HHH on TV in thirty-one different matches in the year 2000. (Geez, they REALLY ran those feuds into the ground back in the Attitude days, didn't they?) Number of times Rock ever pinned HHH? Four. Four pinfalls victories for the top babyface, in their entire year-long feud of thirty-one matches. And EVERY SINGLE TIME, the pinfall only happened after some other person interfered and hit Hunter (with a foreign object, three times out of four). So Rocky never once cleanly defeated his nemesis, in the same year that he infamously became the first babyface to lose in the main event of Wrestlemania. How 'bout that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted March 3, 2016 Report Share Posted March 3, 2016 Who was it who made fun of HHH's promo style? Was it Jericho? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted March 3, 2016 Report Share Posted March 3, 2016 He's the new Dusty isn't he I get what you're aiming at here, but a mic worker as shitty as HHH should never be considered the new Dusty regardless of the reason for comparison, He's the Buddy Landell to Dusty's Flair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Redman Posted March 3, 2016 Report Share Posted March 3, 2016 Wasn't the mic finally cut off in Punk's original pipebomb promo when he finally got around to bashing Triple H? Nope. He called Hunter the "doofus son in law", but the promo was far more directed at Vince, and the moment when Punk said something like "Here's this really big secret you need to know about Vince.." is when he was cut off. Hunter didn't get Punk's attention in promos until he became involved in the angle. They had many a shooty conversation on TV once he was, but I can't remember what, if any, sick burns Punk got in on him. The only line I remember specifically is about Steph having Hunter's balls in her purse. I remember Hunter calling Punk "skinny fat". But those conversations usually tended to revolve around the nature of pushes and politics so a lot of it was philosophical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted March 3, 2016 Report Share Posted March 3, 2016 The "skinny fat" line was great, as of course that would be the sickest burn HHH could throw at someone not as obsessed with physique as he is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slasher Posted March 3, 2016 Report Share Posted March 3, 2016 Yeah Punk was cut off when he was about to say something about Vince presumably being a bully as hypocrisy with the Be a Star campaign. Triple H has definitely gone out of his way to not be anywhere close to the Rock but I think that was a two way street here. I can't imagine the Rock ever wanting anything to do with Triple H ever again either. But for a while Triple H sure liked to indirectly make Rock look bad by beating everyone that ever got one over on the Rock in quick fashion, making it look like a guy who gave Rock difficulty is a guy that has no chance against Triple H. Heck they even had the Rock come out and playing a celebrity buddy asking Eugene who his favorite wrestler was and his face when Eugene claimed Triple H as the answer. At this point the Rock gave Eugene some credibility by getting involved but Triple H made sure to squash Eugene quickly at Summerslam. Man no wonder Rocky got the fuck outta there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luchaundead Posted March 3, 2016 Report Share Posted March 3, 2016 The cut off was when he starts to bring up Be A Star is ridiculous because Vince does and then it cuts out implying he was going to talk about Vince bullying people Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.L.L. Posted March 3, 2016 Report Share Posted March 3, 2016 He's the new Dusty isn't he I get what you're aiming at here, but a mic worker as shitty as HHH should never be considered the new Dusty regardless of the reason for comparison, He's the Buddy Landell to Dusty's Flair. Totally uncalled for slam on Buddy Landell. I don't remember what kind of promo "Black Nature Boy" Scoot Andrews was, but I feel like he was overall a pretty lateral performer to HHH who didn't have HHH's spotlight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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