MoS Posted March 12, 2016 Report Share Posted March 12, 2016 IIRC, Vince wanted a heavyweight-only MMA league, because he was so far in the wrestling bubble that he thought only big strong men could draw in the casuals. That turned out to be pretty short-sighted; with the exception of when Brock was champion, the heavyweight division has been one of the lowest drawing divisions of the UFC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjh Posted March 12, 2016 Report Share Posted March 12, 2016 Yeah, the most logical conclusion to Dave's throwaway line is that Shane attempted to find investors to buy Vince out or a bigger business to forcibly takeover the company. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted March 12, 2016 Report Share Posted March 12, 2016 IIRC, Vince wanted a heavyweight-only MMA league, because he was so far in the wrestling bubble that he thought only big strong men could draw in the casuals. That turned out to be pretty short-sighted; with the exception of when Brock was champion, the heavyweight division has been one of the lowest drawing divisions of the UFC. Â I'd be willing to bet that Vince sees the success Brock had as proving his point though, since that's likely the only time he paid attention to UFC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donsem43 Posted March 13, 2016 Report Share Posted March 13, 2016 Â Man, if we tried to tell people about the wrestling business...they'd never believe us. The wrestling business is crazy and terrible, but it seems to me like all business is kind of crazy and terrible. Â Â This is true with pretty much any corporate structured company. Â After tonight, this whole thing is starting to look more like a Stalin-like political purge with Raw being the weekly show trial. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted March 13, 2016 Report Share Posted March 13, 2016 Yeah, the most logical conclusion to Dave's throwaway line is that Shane attempted to find investors to buy Vince out or a bigger business to forcibly takeover the company. Â And something like that not being reported when it happened is a massive blunder, if that is indeed true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.S. Posted March 13, 2016 Report Share Posted March 13, 2016 Â Yeah, the most logical conclusion to Dave's throwaway line is that Shane attempted to find investors to buy Vince out or a bigger business to forcibly takeover the company. Â And something like that not being reported when it happened is a massive blunder, if that is indeed true. Â Â If it's true, it could be something Dave didn't find out about until years after the fact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted March 13, 2016 Report Share Posted March 13, 2016 And when he found out those details, it should have been a WON story with no beating around the bush, even if it was years later. Dave sitting on a story like that would reflect so terribly on him that I just don't think it happened. I tend to think Dave just chose his words poorly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slasher Posted March 13, 2016 Report Share Posted March 13, 2016 It is a major story...one that could get people fired for leaking to Dave. It could be a situation where the source would very easily be found out by the WWE because that person is the only person there that doesn't have the last name of McMahon. I wouldn't be too eager to rush to criticize Dave here for the possibility he is holding back a major story. Dave has proven over the years with sources he had a great deal of respect that he knows it is a story but will only go so far in breaking the news out of either not wanting to lose a relationship with the source or just generally not wanting to fuck over Shane McMahon for some reason. I mean we all know Dave knows who came up with the Montreal Screwjob idea but he has not...to date...revealed who it was. This story has a similar kind of gravity to it that it might be more worthwhile for him to protect it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.S. Posted March 13, 2016 Report Share Posted March 13, 2016 I mean we all know Dave knows who came up with the Montreal Screwjob idea but he has not...to date...revealed who it was. This story has a similar kind of gravity to it that it might be more worthwhile for him to protect it. Â Wasn't it revealed that Trips came up with it? That is more or less common knowledge now, no? Â The only other possibility worth maintaining radio silence for is ... Bret Hart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goc Posted March 13, 2016 Report Share Posted March 13, 2016 Yea there's no big secret about Montreal. Apparently HHH was the first guy who brought up the idea of a screwjob and Gerald Brisco came up with the idea of Shawn using the Sharpshooter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slasher Posted March 14, 2016 Report Share Posted March 14, 2016 Actually I always thought either Pat Patterson or Jim Cornette helped flesh out how to do the screwjob. I thought Triple H's role in that was him telling Michaels under no circumstances should Shawn lose to Bret when Vince was initially amenable to Bret, working out a finish that worked for everyone. Dave had no problems criticizing Triple H for his backstage antics. He wouldn't fit Dave's mysterious comment about how the guy is someone that Dave had a lot of respect for and therefore he will only out that person when he's no longer involved or when he passes away, whichever came first. I could be wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted March 14, 2016 Report Share Posted March 14, 2016 Dave said just a few years ago (before Bret returned to WWE) that there was still one person who had a major role who swore him to secrecy on it until after he died. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FMKK Posted March 14, 2016 Report Share Posted March 14, 2016 That makes me think either Patterson or Jim Ross. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stiva Posted March 14, 2016 Report Share Posted March 14, 2016 I'm willing to give Dave some credit and chalk this talk of Shane trying to usurp Vince as a work Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slasher Posted March 14, 2016 Report Share Posted March 14, 2016 It very well could have been JR but I doubt it only because Ross doesn't strike me as a guy swearing Dave to secrecy and revealing that stuff. Ross is very bitterly anti-IWC so If he was involved I don't think he'd tell Dave about it. Patterson and Cornette has reputations of smart wrestling minds who routinely comes up with good ideas and they'd be the type of guys who Vince would go to for ideas how to make it all work with the least possibility of blowing up in their faces. They are guys that probably knows the history very well that they could come up with stuff built on the older days where stuff like a screwjob was a more common practice to get out of bad situations with guys who don't cooperate with the plan of the booker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russellmania Posted March 14, 2016 Report Share Posted March 14, 2016 Dave said just a few years ago (before Bret returned to WWE) that there was still one person who had a major role who swore him to secrecy on it until after he died. makes me think Undertaker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted March 14, 2016 Report Share Posted March 14, 2016 I love the image of 97 Taker whispering gossip on, like, Sunny to Dave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteF3 Posted March 14, 2016 Report Share Posted March 14, 2016 Cornette pretty vehemently denied having anything to do with the finish in his '97 Timeline. Of course a shoot interview is far from gospel, but  a.) even though "they have no reason to lie" is often a red herring for people in the wrestling business who lie and work simply because they can, in Cornette's particular case it strikes me as being out of character for him to cover up something like that. Who's he afraid of pissing off? (He *did* say, "Book him against fucking Shamrock!" during a brainstorming session but it didn't strike me as a serious suggestion.)  b.) Cornette's influence on the booking committee was evaporating and he'd be off creative entirely right around this time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted March 14, 2016 Report Share Posted March 14, 2016 It very well could have been JR but I doubt it only because Ross doesn't strike me as a guy swearing Dave to secrecy and revealing that stuff. Ross is very bitterly anti-IWC so If he was involved I don't think he'd tell Dave about it. Patterson and Cornette has reputations of smart wrestling minds who routinely comes up with good ideas and they'd be the type of guys who Vince would go to for ideas how to make it all work with the least possibility of blowing up in their faces. They are guys that probably knows the history very well that they could come up with stuff built on the older days where stuff like a screwjob was a more common practice to get out of bad situations with guys who don't cooperate with the plan of the booker. Â Â The thing about JR is that a lot of his anti internet stuff is kind of a work considering he's been tight with Dave forever and was probably one of his inside sources. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted March 14, 2016 Report Share Posted March 14, 2016 1984 Mid South was also unique in that Bill Watts *wanted* his talent to read the WON because he felt it was a great way for them to learn the business. He didn't have a problem with people like Cornette or Ross talking to Dave, and in old WONs, you even see them thanked for information by name at times. By 1992, Watts had done a 180 on that, probably because Dave didn't love his product nearly as much as he did years earlier. Â My theory on that is that it's something that probably has been revealed by now, or something that if Dave was asked about directly, he would be comfortable revealing now. I'll ask on Twitter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjh Posted March 14, 2016 Report Share Posted March 14, 2016 Dave seems to me to be someone that when he makes a promise he keeps it, so I'm not sure your theory is correct, unless the person who swore him to secrecy allows him to speak about the subject now. Â I will say that there are other elements to the Shane McMahon story that Dave didn't go into much detail when he came back. The level of heat between Triple H and Shane in the past, why Hunter dislikes Shane, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingus Posted March 14, 2016 Report Share Posted March 14, 2016 Wasn't Patterson obviously involved? I thought that was common knowledge, we see him helping Bret plan out the match in Wrestling With Shadows. Â I don't see Vince involving anyone he didn't absolutely HAVE to; he's notorious for keeping secrets as close to the chest as he possibly can: -Shawn and Earl had to be involved to make the finish work. -Patterson had to be involved in order to suggest the sharpshooter spot to Bret. -Brisco was involved to help Shawn plan how to do it and show him some shooter moves if the whole thing got ugly. -HHH was involved because he was the one who first openly suggested the idea of the screwjob. Â Aside from that, who else would need to know? I guess Shane or Slaughter might have, since they were by Vince's side throughout most of the night, but even their knowing participation is a "maybe". I doubt that either Ross or Cornette would've been involved, because there was simply no reason Vince needed them; and anyone else is even less likely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WingedEagle Posted March 14, 2016 Report Share Posted March 14, 2016 Production had to have known to have Michaels's music ready. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingus Posted March 14, 2016 Report Share Posted March 14, 2016 Since when does production ever know who's going to win the matches or at what time any match will end? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WingedEagle Posted March 14, 2016 Report Share Posted March 14, 2016 I assure you Shane McMahon does not slip in a USB with his audio before walking out. The entire show is a production and in order for it to run smoothly those in charge of presenting it need to know when to cue up certain audio/video. That's not a part of the show that is being improvised. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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