Loss Posted March 19, 2016 Report Share Posted March 19, 2016 I made a comment in Shawn's thread alluding to a difference between the two words and wanted to clarify how I used them in case anyone was curious. I consider the best worker the most talented guy, in terms of physical gifts and ability to connect to an audience. I consider the greatest wrestler the guy who did a better job of transcending his toolbox to deliver matches that even people who aren't normally fans of the genre or style can appreciate. I have made the comment in the past that in order for a guy to be considered a great wrestler to me, his whole needs to exceed the sum of his parts. In other words, his intangibles are strong enough that they overcome any flaws that he may have and make them either meaningless or less glaring than they would be otherwise. So someone like Brad Armstrong never did that in a way that I'd say someone like Shawn Michaels did, even though I'd consider Brad Armstrong the much better *worker* in terms of athletic ability, execution and match layout. I don't expect anyone else to agree to that framework or use the terms the same way, but for my purposes, I thought it was important to elaborate. I didn't want to do it in the Michaels thread because I'd rather keep that thread about Shawn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bierschwale Posted March 20, 2016 Report Share Posted March 20, 2016 I always think of "greatest vs. best" as longevity vs. peak. Which this is, in a way. A discreet action of Armstrong's is better than the same discreet action of Michaels. But his whole/longevity beats Armstrong's moment/peak. Great elaboration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ship Canal Posted March 20, 2016 Report Share Posted March 20, 2016 I consider the greatest wrestler the guy who did a better job of transcending his toolbox to deliver matches that even people who aren't normally fans of the genre or style can appreciate. I'm not sure I follow this entirely, or at least I'm unsure about why its the prime designator of the greatest in your view... I've maybe misinterpreted it but when you talk about transcending toolbox/skillset in that regard do you mean you would always be more inclined to view someone who becomes more than the sum of their parts as great because that's a more impressive achievement than, say, someone with more intrinsic gifts - someone who has, if you like, had to work less hard to transcend, who is more of a "natural" in some or several areas of their all round wrestling game? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted March 20, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 20, 2016 That's not really it. It's more about body of work. For me, a very good worker with a long list of really great matches would rank above an even better worker without much to show for it in the way of matches. Basically, "best worker ever" is in my interpretation about things like who threw the best suplex or worked the mat best, while "greatest worker ever" seems to be something bigger than that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoS Posted March 20, 2016 Report Share Posted March 20, 2016 I think of it as the opposite, but I have always thought of it in sports terms, and not from a pro wrestling purpose. For example, Novak Djokovic might end up being the best of all-time, but for his sheer talent and beautiful play, Roger Federer will always be the greatest for me. I do not really know how to import it into pro wrestling though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodhelmet Posted March 21, 2016 Report Share Posted March 21, 2016 Someone can be great but not the best. If you're the best then by default you should be great at whatever you are measuring. IN fact, I am creating my own 10 point system to illustrate why I think Jerry Lawler is the greatest wrestler of all time who happened to be the best at many things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Childs Posted March 21, 2016 Report Share Posted March 21, 2016 JLKINGLAV ... dammit, that's nine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodhelmet Posted March 21, 2016 Report Share Posted March 21, 2016 Close Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Sorrow Posted March 26, 2016 Report Share Posted March 26, 2016 PARVSTINKS Punches Acting Rasslin' Villiany Superhero-ness Terry Funk's Eye Nick Bockwinkel foe Kingliness Selling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodhelmet Posted March 28, 2016 Report Share Posted March 28, 2016 Close. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shrike02 Posted April 12, 2016 Report Share Posted April 12, 2016 New member to the board. Been catching up on the GWE project, listening to podcasts and reading the forum topics. I"m a bit stunned that methodologies and criteria were not more cogently defined as this project took shape. Where might one find anything close to a comprehensive list of factors to consider in arriving at these top 100 lists? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Redman Posted April 12, 2016 Report Share Posted April 12, 2016 You'd have to ask everyone for their own individual criteria, basically. It was left open ended for a reason - everyone could decide what "greatest" meant to them. I think the only remotely official criteria was that it was based on footage, and not hearsay or reputation (eliminating anyone too early or obscure for us to have footage of). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted April 12, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 12, 2016 Yeah, it was purposely left vague, although we had countless criteria conversations, which were my favorite part of the project, more so than the ballot or anything else, because it helped me formulate some thoughts I can take with me when this is all over. This folder has all of those threads. Reading through them should give you a good idea of the journey many of us took. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted April 12, 2016 Report Share Posted April 12, 2016 I don't think there is anyway to arrive at a fixed criteria for something like this that wouldn't absolutely destroy the entire point of the project in the first place. That's not to say I can't appreciate the value of something like BIGLAV for Parv, and I actually ended up applying a more fixed criteria than I would have guessed myself, but to me this is a humanities project, not a science one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoe Posted April 15, 2016 Report Share Posted April 15, 2016 Of course their could have been a more rigid system. Who's to say that everyone would have followed it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parties Posted April 16, 2016 Report Share Posted April 16, 2016 Alright, I genuinely LOLed at Sorrow's post. Kingliness is an underrated GWE criterion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exposer Posted April 16, 2016 Report Share Posted April 16, 2016 I certainly counted live viewing as part of my criteria. A lot of the southern indie shows I've been to never made circulation but I couldn't eliminate those influences from my ballot. I saw it as more "Greatest Wrestler Ever I've seen anywhere at anytime" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimmas Posted April 17, 2016 Report Share Posted April 17, 2016 In retrospect I really should had pushed for Tyson Dux and Eric Young to be nominated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodhelmet Posted April 18, 2016 Report Share Posted April 18, 2016 PARVSTINKS Punches Acting Rasslin' Villiany Superhero-ness Terry Funk's Eye Nick Bockwinkel foe Kingliness Selling 3 of these made the final list Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.