Dropoffs from the 2006 SmarksChoice Top 100

[JerryvonKramer]

Probably the best ever at sitting up.

[Eegah]

The best pure striker in WWE history.

[Gregor]

Probably the best ever at sitting up.

Not in a world where Angelo Poffo exists.

[Jimmy Redman]

Where do people go on the Mr. Kennedy match from No Mercy 2006?

 

How about the match with Kane at Bragging Rights 2010?

 

What are your views on the encounter with Muhammad Hassan at Great American Bash 2005?

 

I am keen to hear opinions on the match with Sycho Sid at Wrestlemania 13.

 

I'd like to see evaluations of his bout with The Big Show at Cyber Sunday 2008

 

Or how about the match with Rob Van Dam at Vengeance 2001?

 

I'd like to hear more about these terrific match ups.

 

 

I'd love reviews of

 

1. IRS / Kama feud and matches

2. Taker and Big Show tag run

3. Dudley Boys feud

 

And then those ones I picked out from the 00s.

 

vs Kennedy at No Mercy 2006 was from memory a good match. Didn't reach any higher than that, but it wasn't bad, and as far as Kennedy goes it's well above his average. I think their Survivor Series match was better and pretty good. But I haven't seen them for a good long while.

 

The Dudley Boyz feud in 2004 was fairly lame, but Smackdown was fairly lame in 2004. The angle DID lead to the really good TV match vs John Cena in June while Taker was under Heyman's control or whatever the fuck was going on that lead Taker to do heelish stuff.

 

The Big Show feud in 2008 was generally quite good. No Mercy 2008 was the best match though, I have no recollection of what happened at Cyber Sunday.

 

The Kane feud in 2010 was actually really fun and interesting for the most part, but the PPV matches were the least interesting part. What WAS good was Taker's performances throughout, particularly the way he sold the angle by changing his whole demeanor and selling depending on whether he had his "powers" or not.

 

I don't recall the Hassan match, but that came after the London Bombings controversy and as I recall that match was used to squash him and blow off the character.

 

Haven't seen the 2001 stuff.

[TheU_2001]

I didn't vote for Undertaker, but I would vote for him before:

 

Dynamite Kid, Tanahashi, Backlund, Mutoh, Harley, and Angle all of whom made the top 100.

All of them made my ballot. It'll be interesting to see where they come out.

[Eegah]

I didn't vote for Undertaker, but I would vote for him before:

 

Dynamite Kid, Tanahashi, Backlund, Mutoh, Harley, and Angle all of whom made the top 100.

I can recall your thoughts on the others besides Backlund, why do you dislike him?

[Grimmas]

 

I didn't vote for Undertaker, but I would vote for him before:

 

Dynamite Kid, Tanahashi, Backlund, Mutoh, Harley, and Angle all of whom made the top 100.

I can recall your thoughts on the others besides Backlund, why do you dislike him?

I don't dislike him.

[Superstar Sleeze]

Probably the best ever at sitting up.

That was the post of the year. Laughing so hard right now.

[Superstar Sleeze]

 

 

Probably the best ever at sitting up.

Not in a world where Angelo Poffo exists.

 

Posts of the year! Undertaker can now say he is the centerpiece of a ***** thread

[The Man in Blak]

 

 

Seriously though, I thought lists of good matches weren't supposed to prove anything.

I get the joke, but someone asked the question of what his best 00s matches were. and it was answered.

And it's a good thing too, because I was starting to get worried that we'd never be able to answer whether the Undertaker was better than Bret Hart or not!

[TheU_2001]

 

Probably the best ever at sitting up.

That was the post of the year. Laughing so hard right now.

Ditto. Nailed it Parv.

[Parties]

Most of the Taker matches being cited here aren't that good. Like I'm possibly one of the biggest Rey fans on this board and I'll say that the Rumble '10 match is underwhelming. None of the recent Mania stuff has worked for me, though I like the Batista match a lot and think it may be his overall best.

 

That said I think '98-99 Undertaker actually doesn't get enough love. The opportunity to be a Satanic top heel in the Attitude Era brought out a good bloodthirst in him, where for a while it felt like he was getting real heat. He also had some of the right stuff in terrible situations: the Over the Edge match with Austin is good work (in some ways perhaps too good, given the circumstance), and I've long said that him and Big Show vs. Kane and X-Pac from Summerslam '99 is an inexplicably great match at a time when all four of those guys were purported to suck. The groin injury that put him out for like a year was either in that match or shortly thereafter.

[Jingus]

Or how about the match with Rob Van Dam at Vengeance 2001?

 

I'd like to hear more about these terrific match ups.

Hey, wait a minute, that match wasn't even bad! Undertaker was acting like an extra-tall Sandman in that match, it was hilarious to watch him down that weeble-wobble out-on-his-feet selling. One of his few PPV bouts from 2001 that I actually liked.

 

That said I think '98-99 Undertaker actually doesn't get enough love. The opportunity to be a Satanic top heel in the Attitude Era brought out a good bloodthirst in him, where for a while it felt like he was getting real heat. He also had some of the right stuff in terrible situations: the Over the Edge match with Austin is good work (in some ways perhaps too good, given the circumstance), and I've long said that him and Big Show vs. Kane and X-Pac from Summerslam '99 is an inexplicably great match at a time when all four of those guys were purported to suck. The groin injury that put him out for like a year was either in that match or shortly thereafter.

That's true. This is when I first got into wrestling, and his SatanTaker gimmick was one of the first things which made me interested in the product. He was still trying during that period, even though he was plagued by lots of injuries and shitty booking.

 

The one part of his career I can't defend overall is the American Badass phase. Good matches were few and far between in that period, and we don't have the "well, he's playing a slow-moving no-selling zombie character" handicap to explain things here. He just looked tired and selfish instead, especially in those disastrous matches against various WCW guys during Invasion. Maybe this is WHY they focus so hard on the Immortal Legendary Undertaker gimmick at other times, because he's just not very good at trying to wrestle like a regular guy. Of course, if you have the opportunity to present someone as an unique special attraction rather than have them just be a regular guy, why not present them as the immortal legend? The crowd obviously cares much more about THEUNDERTAKER than they do about Mean Mark Callous, so there's no reason why he shouldn't be treated as the supernatural Very Special Guest Star since it obviously works.

[Parties]

I was trying to think of who I would compare '99 Taker to and the best I can come up with is Mil Muertes. Banderas is a much better worker, but the genuine scariness of that character and his status on the card feels similar in some ways.

[NotJayTabb]

I'd love reviews of

 

1. IRS / Kama feud and matches

2. Taker and Big Show tag run

3. Dudley Boys feud

 

And then those ones I picked out from the 00s.

 

 

Here's the No Mercy match with Kennedy you mentioned. Short version: Logical match let down by Kennedy not being a very interesting wrestler

 

The Undertaker vs Mr Kennedy

Slightly hard to find the Undertaker as intimidating as usual as his fake tan starts running down his head at the start of the match. Taker starts working over the arm of Kennedy early, with him hoisting Kennedy up in the air by the arm being particularly impressive. Kennedy manages to block Old School by armdragging Taker off the top. Kennedy's selling of the arm is remarkably consistent, though he does try punching Taker with the bad arm which leads to Taker Flatlining him. In the midst of all the arm-offence, Kennedy manage's to take a turnbuckle pad off. When he does get on offence, Kennedy is nicely vicious, but makes the mistake of trying to get his breath back, giving Taker time to regain control. You get the impression Kennedy is putting in some real effort here, knowing what an opportunity this match is. Certainly, he seems a lot less half-arsed as he has done in recent years. Problem is that when Kennedy is on offense, it's a bit dull. His offence here is mainly based around kicks and hammering Taker in the corner. It's done with intent, but doesn't exactly enthrall the audience or myself. Piledriver from Kennedy (daftly called a Tombstone by Michael Cole) gets 2, and Kennedy reacts by pounding Taker in the face in frustration. It's like he's really selling the story of the match well (cocky upstart desperate to beat legend), but his offence isn't good enough to match up. In the middle of his hottest spell of offence, he puts on a resthold and the match cools down again. Taker hits a chokeslam, but Kennedy is able to reverse the Last Ride and ram Taker's head into that exposed turnbuckle. I'd forgotten all about that, which made for a nice little surprise. Swanton Bomb gets two for Kennedy. Kennedy tries to nail Taker with the US title, but Taker blocks it and uses it on Kennedy instead, giving Kennedy the DQ win. All that for such a shitty finish. Really out of nowhere considering Taker had just done the zombie situp and looked ready to win. Story of the match was better than the work within.

[anarchistxx]

There is a really fun ten minute Undertaker vs JBL brawl on Smackdown sometime in 2005. Unfortunately, the same can't be said for their PPV matches which are some of the worst of all time (I believe one consists mainly of trading awful strikes and sitting in rest holds for what feels like eternity before the mandatory run in, screwy finish, and Bradshaw being chokeslammed through a fake limo roof).

 

Michael Cole is the worst for his endless dreary entrances, "Can you feel the chills in the arena, the change in atmosphere for the phenom, the mystique of The Undertaker, the incredible aura as he limps down the ramp to stink the place out in another interminable thirty minute horrorshow".

[ohtani's jacket]

Uh oh, what did I start? I was really just using Undertaker's quote from Royal Rumble '94 to talk about workers who've dropped off the list not Undertaker himself.

[Parties]

I also forgot about Taker-Festus from Smackdown '08 - definitely one of the best Taker matches, possibly even the best. A hoss war that wouldn't have looked out of place on the Texas or Watts sets. Taker as "touring champion defending his world title on TV in a one-off against the local upstart" was really cool and different at the time, even if that match was pretty much the only time they ran with that idea.

[soup23]

I watched Taker vs. Festus last night. Good match with a lot of early fire from Taker. He does slow things down with some arm work that doesn't seem to go much of anywhere but the final 5-6 minutes were well done and gave Festus enough credibility while still retaining Taker as the dominant worker.

[Dylan Waco]

I didn't rank Taker, but I'd feel better about this thread if we could add GIFs of Kobashi's crocodile tears/overacting nonsense, and maybe a montage of his most egregiously unnecessary head drops.

[InYourCase]

For what it's worth, Angle vs. Undertaker from No Way Out 2006 is one of my favorite WWE matches ever and something totally different from what Taker normally did. If he had more matches like that, he would've had a shot at my list.

[goc]

I love Parv pointing out Undertaker's lows while he steadfastly argued this whole time that Flair's didn't count.

 

The Kane feud in 2010 was actually really fun and interesting for the most part, but the PPV matches were the least interesting part. What WAS good was Taker's performances throughout, particularly the way he sold the angle by changing his whole demeanor and selling depending on whether he had his "powers" or not.

And yea, this feud was awesome. The matches not so much but one the best feuds Taker had.

[JerryvonKramer]

When was Undertaker's peak?

[Timbo Slice]

 

 

Probably the best ever at sitting up.

Not in a world where Angelo Poffo exists.

Or CM Punk.

[JerryvonKramer]

I love Parv pointing out Undertaker's lows while he steadfastly argued this whole time that Flair's didn't count.

Flair could have died in 1991 instead of going to WWF and giving us an all-time Rumble, all-time promos and a memorable feud with Savage, and his case would be made already.

 

I realise that Undertaker was always already dead, but what year do you think his case was made by? And what low points during that peak run of Taker's would you say are comparable to Flair's low points 78-89? What are Flair's low points 78-89?

 

To use your favourite word, goc, that line you wrote was "silly".