TheU_2001 Posted April 18, 2016 Report Share Posted April 18, 2016 Undertaker's lows aren't just lows. They are the skeleton bones buried beneath the sewer system of pro wrestling.Post of the year!!! This cracked me up. Nice. 😀 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Childs Posted April 18, 2016 Report Share Posted April 18, 2016 A blemish on the top 100? If you add the 90's and the Bret and HIAC matches from 97, that's a lot of good stuff. However, if you add in his awesome punches, his aura, the way he carries himself, the way he can make matches feel like a big fight feel, etc... he's a good pick. Heck, I think having Dynamite Kid and Kurt Angle on the list is WAAAY worse. Dynamite isn't a bad pick. His misfortune is that his most famous stuff is far from his best. But even there, I blame Tiger Mask and WWF tag formula more than I blame him. I didn't vote for him, but he was a gifted wrestler who managed to stand out in a lot of places. I would have voted for him before Taker or Angle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted April 18, 2016 Report Share Posted April 18, 2016 The thing about Great Aura Theory is that it focuses more on output than input. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimmas Posted April 18, 2016 Report Share Posted April 18, 2016 The thing about Great Aura Theory is that it focuses more on output than input. you are on fire tonight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Redman Posted April 18, 2016 Report Share Posted April 18, 2016 What do you consider the high end Taker stuff from the 2000's? vs Jeff Hardy - Raw July 2002 (Ladder match) vs Angle vs Rock - Vengeance 2002 vs Brock Lesnar - No Mercy 2002 (HIAC) vs John Cena - Vengeance 2003 vs Kurt Angle - SD September 2003 w/ Angle vs Brock/Cena - SD October 2003 vs Vince - Survivor Series 2003 (Buried Alive) vs John Cena - SD June 2004 vs Randy Orton - WM21 vs Randy Orton - SD September 2005 vs Mark Henry - SD Feb 2006 vs Kurt Angle - NWO 2006 vs Big Show - ECW July 2006 vs Khali - SD August 2006 w/ Dave vs Shawn/Cena - NWO 2007 vs Finlay - March 2007 vs Batista - WM23 vs Batista - Backlash 2007 vs Batista - SD 2007 (Cage) vs Batista - Cyber Sunday 2007 vs Batista - Survivor Series 2007 (HIAC) vs Edge - WM24 vs Festus - SD April 2008 vs Edge - ONS 2008 (TLC) vs Edge - Summerslam 2008 (HIAC) vs Big Show - No Mercy 2008 vs Jeff Hardy - SD November 2008 vs Shelton - SD January 2009 vs Show vs Hunter vs Kozlov - SD Feb 2009 vs Shawn - WM25 vs Rey - Rumble 2010 vs Shawn - WM26 vs Hunter - WM27 vs Hunter - WM28 vs Punk - WM29 vs Brock - Summerslam 2015 I included as much stuff as I could think of because I even when people say "oh he has one good match a year" I think that's bullshit until he was literally only working one match per year, there's a lot of good stuff, a lot of good TV matches during the time when he was working full time. Woah this escalated as I was typing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Childs Posted April 18, 2016 Report Share Posted April 18, 2016 Chad is Dusty a lot better than Taker? That's insulting. I don't think it's insulting. Dusty was one of the greatest characters in wrestling history, but Taker's best in-ring performances were better than Dusty's best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted April 18, 2016 Report Share Posted April 18, 2016 For me the mark of a truly great worker is to count how many Wrestlemania moments they've had. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Redman Posted April 18, 2016 Report Share Posted April 18, 2016 Parv I know you're talking shit but I am totally willing to go into random Taker PPV matches of the 00s if you want to hear it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted April 18, 2016 Report Share Posted April 18, 2016 A blemish on the top 100? If you add the 90's and the Bret and HIAC matches from 97, that's a lot of good stuff. However, if you add in his awesome punches, his aura, the way he carries himself, the way he can make matches feel like a big fight feel, etc... he's a good pick. Heck, I think having Dynamite Kid and Kurt Angle on the list is WAAAY worse. Dynamite isn't a bad pick. His misfortune is that his most famous stuff is far from his best. But even there, I blame Tiger Mask and WWF tag formula more than I blame him. I didn't vote for him, but he was a gifted wrestler who managed to stand out in a lot of places. I would have voted for him before Taker or Angle. Dynamite needs to get more personal blame for Heel In Peril than he gets. but it's admittedly worst in 1988. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimmas Posted April 18, 2016 Report Share Posted April 18, 2016 I didn't vote for Undertaker, but I would vote for him before: Dynamite Kid, Tanahashi, Backlund, Mutoh, Harley, and Angle all of whom made the top 100. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Dragon Posted April 18, 2016 Report Share Posted April 18, 2016 What do you consider the high end Taker stuff from the 2000's? vs Jeff Hardy - Raw July 2002 (Ladder match) vs Angle vs Rock - Vengeance 2002 vs Brock Lesnar - No Mercy 2002 (HIAC) vs John Cena - Vengeance 2003 vs Kurt Angle - SD September 2003 w/ Angle vs Brock/Cena - SD October 2003 vs Vince - Survivor Series 2003 (Buried Alive) vs John Cena - SD June 2004 vs Randy Orton - WM21 vs Randy Orton - SD September 2005 vs Mark Henry - SD Feb 2006 vs Kurt Angle - NWO 2006 vs Big Show - ECW July 2006 vs Khali - SD August 2006 w/ Dave vs Shawn/Cena - NWO 2007 vs Finlay - March 2007 vs Batista - WM23 vs Batista - Backlash 2007 vs Batista - SD 2007 (Cage) vs Batista - Cyber Sunday 2007 vs Batista - Survivor Series 2007 (HIAC) vs Edge - WM24 vs Festus - SD April 2008 vs Edge - ONS 2008 (TLC) vs Edge - Summerslam 2008 (HIAC) vs Big Show - No Mercy 2008 vs Jeff Hardy - SD November 2008 vs Shelton - SD January 2009 vs Show vs Hunter vs Kozlov - SD Feb 2009 vs Shawn - WM25 vs Rey - Rumble 2010 vs Shawn - WM26 vs Hunter - WM27 vs Hunter - WM28 vs Punk - WM29 vs Brock - Summerslam 2015 I included as much stuff as I could think of because I even when people say "oh he has one good match a year" I think that's bullshit until he was literally only working one match per year, there's a lot of good stuff, a lot of good TV matches during the time when he was working full time. Woah this escalated as I was typing. All praise to you for mentioning the Taker/Shelton match. They fought each other a few times in that stretch and I enjoyed the fuck out of that series. Shelton's gold standard run was pretty underrated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted April 18, 2016 Report Share Posted April 18, 2016 Seriously though, I thought lists of good matches weren't supposed to prove anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted April 18, 2016 Report Share Posted April 18, 2016 Don't look at me, I really like the two Hogan vs Taker matches from 91. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Redman Posted April 18, 2016 Report Share Posted April 18, 2016 Seriously though, I thought lists of good matches weren't supposed to prove anything. I get the joke, but someone asked the question of what his best 00s matches were. and it was answered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted April 18, 2016 Report Share Posted April 18, 2016 I'd love reviews of 1. IRS / Kama feud and matches 2. Taker and Big Show tag run 3. Dudley Boys feud And then those ones I picked out from the 00s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregor Posted April 18, 2016 Report Share Posted April 18, 2016 Anytime in 97 till today, when he feels like it. I don't really buy that there was ever a time when Undertaker was capable of having great matches at will. Even then, did he just not care at all from 1999-2001? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted April 18, 2016 Report Share Posted April 18, 2016 Seriously though, I thought lists of good matches weren't supposed to prove anything. I get the joke, but someone asked the question of what his best 00s matches were. and it was answered. Understood. So I'll tweak my question: Are those simply his best matches, or the matches where he contributed the most in a positive way, end quality level be damned? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Dragon Posted April 18, 2016 Report Share Posted April 18, 2016 I'd love reviews of 1. IRS / Kama feud and matches 2. Taker and Big Show tag run 3. Dudley Boys feud And then those ones I picked out from the 00s. "See these things I don't like? I'm just gonna keep shouting about them while totally ignoring anything you say to prove how right I am" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted April 18, 2016 Report Share Posted April 18, 2016 I'd love reviews of 1. IRS / Kama feud and matches 2. Taker and Big Show tag run 3. Dudley Boys feud And then those ones I picked out from the 00s. "See these things I don't like? I'm just gonna keep shouting about them while totally ignoring anything you say to prove how right I am" If you look back on my posts I've said nothing of the sort. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted April 18, 2016 Report Share Posted April 18, 2016 He's about to challenge you to a duel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soup23 Posted April 18, 2016 Report Share Posted April 18, 2016 Also it has a LOT of really high end stuff. Some of the best matches of the 2000's all involve Taker. This was my only challenge and a qualm to what was said. Jimmy's list was riddled with stuff I don't really like (vs. Vince, vs. Brock SummerSlam 2015) but also had a lot of good to very good matches on it. However, I once again only see a few of those as legit contenders as "best matches of the 2000's" talk. A lot of that tv stuff may very well be good matches, I don't remember it, but Kevin Owens had a ***1/2 star match on Raw last week that I won't remember in a year from now more than likely and he wasn't close to my top 100 list. How much of that list and Taker's performances really captivated that he was one of the better worker's of the 2000's. That has to be a case built around him as I can't fathom anyone judging his 90-96 run in high regard or defending most of 1998 and 1999. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soup23 Posted April 18, 2016 Report Share Posted April 18, 2016 I didn't vote on Dusty. I think Dusty defeats Taker pretty easily in big match performances, in creating sympathy, and fired up comebacks. Taker's top 5 matches are better in Dusty's, but Dusty feels more consistent over a 81-88 clip than Taker did over any stretch of his career to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Dragon Posted April 18, 2016 Report Share Posted April 18, 2016 I'd love reviews of 1. IRS / Kama feud and matches 2. Taker and Big Show tag run 3. Dudley Boys feud And then those ones I picked out from the 00s. "See these things I don't like? I'm just gonna keep shouting about them while totally ignoring anything you say to prove how right I am" If you look back on my posts I've said nothing of the sort. No, you've said nothing of note in this entire thread other then taking shots at the low points of a guy and ignoring the high points, and make the same "Wrestlemania Moment" joke 5 times. Yes, we get it, Taker had some shitty matches, usually with some pretty shitty opponents. Consistency is also not one of his strengths, and that's fair. But he's had 20 years of work were he has, the vast majority of the time, been at least "Good" and often times took the jump to great when given the opportunity in a lot of voters eyes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WingedEagle Posted April 18, 2016 Report Share Posted April 18, 2016 Taker probably smokes Dusty in great matches. But you don't exactly need a whole lot of hands to count either of their classics. Taker's floor is well below 6 feet under, and something approached on a regular if not consistent basis. Dusty was almost always entertaining and found ways to keep things from approaching dull. His wasn't an act that lost its appeal & fun when the mic was down and entrance music stopped. The man could control a crowd more than enough to squeeze a single or double out of most situations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soup23 Posted April 18, 2016 Report Share Posted April 18, 2016 I'd love reviews of 1. IRS / Kama feud and matches 2. Taker and Big Show tag run 3. Dudley Boys feud And then those ones I picked out from the 00s. "See these things I don't like? I'm just gonna keep shouting about them while totally ignoring anything you say to prove how right I am" If you look back on my posts I've said nothing of the sort. No, you've said nothing of note in this entire thread other then taking shots at the low points of a guy and ignoring the high points, and make the same "Wrestlemania Moment" joke 5 times. Yes, we get it, Taker had some shitty matches, usually with some pretty shitty opponents. Consistency is also not one of his strengths, and that's fair. But he's had 20 years of work were he has, the vast majority of the time, been at least "Good" and often times took the jump to great when given the opportunity in a lot of voters eyes. The challenge is in what area has he been "good" for the vast majority. His punches are good. What other areas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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