MasterJonBurr Posted April 19, 2016 Report Share Posted April 19, 2016 I looooooove Rugged Ronnie Garvin, but couldn't find a way to get him near my Top 100. I think it's great that his ascent in everyone's estimation in the last decade is so dramatic, though. Coincidentally, Garvin beating Flair for the belt led to all my classmates declaring wrestling to be fake and is one of my very first memories of our great sport. Yours, JHHBjr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eegah Posted April 19, 2016 Report Share Posted April 19, 2016 A dagger. I was hoping hed make it a little further but still happy to see him in the top 100. Onita holds a special place in my heart, early on in my internet tape trading days when I got the FMW and Onita stuff I wore those tapes out. One of the most charismatic figures to me in wrestling history, excellent at portraying violence varying from subtle and nuanced all the way to completely over the top. My highest guy down now so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted April 19, 2016 Report Share Posted April 19, 2016 Wow. I can't believe I'm actually a low vote on Onita. I've been an Onita fan since I began buying tapes in the late 90's. There was a Best of Onita in the first batch I bought, and I was fascinated by the guy since that point. I slowly grew a deeper appreciation for his work, to the point I really thought he was a very good and smart worker. Now, people calling him a great worker today seems totally like a pendulum effect, but I have nothing against it since I'm an old fan. I'm delighted that I'm a low vote on Onita actually and that he ranked higher than my personnal vote. Maybe the best surprise of this poll. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stomperspc Posted April 19, 2016 Report Share Posted April 19, 2016 I had Garvin on my list. For the longest time I subscribed to the established opinion that Garvin was an unremarkable worker. It didn't help that I think the first two matches I probably saw of his were the just okay Starrcade '87 title switch and the good but overrated by context Valentine submission match. The Tully match is incredible and so are most of the Flair matches I've seen. Over time my opinion changed drastically. I rated Windham higher on my list and I think the two Flair series are comparable, but that doesn't diminish how good Garvin was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRGoldman Posted April 19, 2016 Report Share Posted April 19, 2016 Onita was the last person I thought I'd be the high voter on (I had him 18th), and I'm happy he made the top 100, but I really wish now that I had pushed for him a bit harder in his thread. I think some people tend to dismiss the deathmatch style he popularized as "garbage" or by leaning on statements like not all styles are created equal, while ignoring the sheer charisma and importance Onita was able to bring to his matches within that style. They also made sense from a narrative standpoint and escalated in a meaningful, believable way. I think many voters tend to dismiss him because of what they think he spawned and not the work he actually did, which I think stands up as well as anything else from that time frame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parties Posted April 19, 2016 Report Share Posted April 19, 2016 I didn't rank Garvin, but the case for him was well made throughout and more power to him. I will say that at times I don't give him enough credit for the same reasons I dismiss Backlund, in that there's something about his fifty-yard stare and eccentricity that causes me to not take him as seriously as I probably should given his talent. I had Onita at #70, which is too high, but I think his 80s stuff is some of the exciting anyone was doing back then, he's the only death match guy who stands the test of time, and he's one of the great characters in wrestling history. He's as sentimental a pick as anyone on my list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted April 19, 2016 Report Share Posted April 19, 2016 Onita was the last person I thought I'd be the high voter on (I had him 18th), and I'm happy he made the top 100, but I really wish now that I had pushed for him a bit harder in his thread. I think some people tend to dismiss the deathmatch style he popularized as "garbage" or by leaning on statements like not all styles are created equal, while ignoring the sheer charisma and importance Onita was able to bring to his matches within that style. They also made sense from a narrative standpoint and escalated in a meaningful, believable way. I think many voters tend to dismiss him because of what they think he spawned and not the work he actually did, which I think stands up as well as anything else from that time frame. The funny thing about Onita is that pretty much all the guys coming after him and did garbage stuff totally ignored why Onita was so great at it and why he made a shitload of money : milking and selling. That's why watching the very early Onita FMW matches against martial artists is so revealing of what Onita is all about, because he basically worked the same way then : getting his ass beat, selling like a motherfucker, milking every comebacks like crazy. And then of course you got all the Onita mystic with the post-match crying and promo, which is insane even if you don't understand the language. But really, Onita wasn't about taking insane bump and bleeding like a stuck pig. Well, he was, but that's just a part of it. The main thing is that he milked and sold like a mofo. That's why he made shitload of money while all the garbage idiots (Abyss, looking at you) coming after just destroyed their body for basically nothing because all they got out of Onita was : taking bumps in barbwires. That was just a spectacular choice. Onita was like Takada, a master of epic spectacle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pol Posted April 19, 2016 Report Share Posted April 19, 2016 Now, people calling him a great worker today seems totally like a pendulum effect This a great name for that phenomenon. Much more worthy of catching on than "Great Match Theory" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted April 19, 2016 Report Share Posted April 19, 2016 Yep, I was thinking about using it more often actually so I don't have to use too many words to explain myself. Seems pretty clear to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goc Posted April 19, 2016 Report Share Posted April 19, 2016 Glad Onita made the 100. He was in my top 50 and one of the few Japanese wrestlers that I ranked. He is even more impressive to me by making me care about him when he's working a style that I really don't care for. But that's probably more because the rest of the guys who worked that style weren't nearly as compelling as characters or as good at selling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abrasiveobelisksa Posted April 19, 2016 Report Share Posted April 19, 2016 How did two people put Sami Zayn in their top 10? Really interested in seeing that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimmas Posted April 19, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 19, 2016 How did two people put Sami Zayn in their top 10? Really interested in seeing that. Read through the discussion thread, lots of defenders there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yo-Yo's Roomie Posted April 19, 2016 Report Share Posted April 19, 2016 Do WWE call Sami Zayn fans Zayniacs yet? Because they will. I ended up having Onita on my list, after saying I wouldn't. Selling, spectacle, charisma in the end won the day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Death From Above Posted April 19, 2016 Report Share Posted April 19, 2016 I think it's funny I wasn't even close to being the high vote on Onita. I swear, that anonymous 7 isn't me! None the less, I'm bringing back my real avatar. I just can't take it anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Childs Posted April 19, 2016 Report Share Posted April 19, 2016 I'm now picturing Garvin beating the holy hell out of Zayn in the GWE Invitational. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danish Dynamite Posted April 19, 2016 Report Share Posted April 19, 2016 A number 1 vote for Scorpio??? He was around my number 50. He was my #50, so I hear you completely... Also lost Garvin (#68) Didn't have Onita, but he was damn close. EDIT: Sami Zayn was my #80. He probaby gained a spot or two off of the NXT show that weekend. Mid-80's is maybe where I really feel he belongs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotJayTabb Posted April 19, 2016 Report Share Posted April 19, 2016 Sami is the first guy to be in the exact position in my list as he is on the countdown Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cap Posted April 19, 2016 Report Share Posted April 19, 2016 Sami and Cesaro landing side by side seems pretty appropriate to me. I think they are both guys with pretty legit cases for the list, but I can understand them being here (or even falling off). I honestly go back and forth on who I think is better. They have gone back and forth a lot in terms of skill and output and it has been really fun to watch along the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Redman Posted April 19, 2016 Report Share Posted April 19, 2016 There's something poetic about Cesaro beating Sami one more time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danish Dynamite Posted April 19, 2016 Report Share Posted April 19, 2016 I had Cesaro higher, but his placement here seems fair to me. ... And agree with Jimmy :-) Very poetic placement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eegah Posted April 19, 2016 Report Share Posted April 19, 2016 I voted for both guys but had Cesaro a few places higher. Good placement for both of them for the most part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JKWebb Posted April 19, 2016 Report Share Posted April 19, 2016 Loving the placement of Sami and Cesaro... I'm agreeing with Jon... Bigger things on the horizon... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted April 19, 2016 Report Share Posted April 19, 2016 If the #86 doesn't end up my #86, it's gonna be pretty interesting to me. My #99 and #89 haven't dropped yet, which I'm very surprised about (especially #89 since his stock has dropped a lot I believe). Cesaro & Zayn making it around those slots make sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRGoldman Posted April 19, 2016 Report Share Posted April 19, 2016 I don't necessarily have issues with the overall placement of Zayn and Cesaro, but I will say I think it speaks to the "WWE effect" that they are both slightly higher than Hero, who I think was better earlier, subsequently better for longer, and has had just as many good matches on the indies as Zayn and Cesaro have had in WWE in the past few years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted April 19, 2016 Report Share Posted April 19, 2016 I don't necessarily have issues with the overall placement of Zayn and Cesaro, but I will say I think it speaks to the "WWE effect" that they are both slightly higher than Hero, who I think was better earlier, subsequently better for longer, and has had just as many good matches on the indies as Zayn and Cesaro have had in WWE in the past few years. There's also some level of availability of footage too, with Cesaro especially, over Hero. It's a hell of a lot easier for me to watch 200 Cesaro matches than 200 Hero matches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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