Current Lucha Talk

[pol]

I really liked the Ultimo Guerrero vs. Bobby Lashley match from Elite. UG's refusal to stop playing to the crowd when he should he selling irritates me, but Lashley played off it really well with his "what the fuck is with this guy?" facials. UG was insanely over.

[Goodear]

watched Maximo vs. Rush

 

This was a great match. Rush was the ultimate dick at first and it really played out well for the quick first two caida structure that CMLL uses. Rush gets disqualified in the first caida and only intensifies his attack. Him throwing the soda on Maximo was a great heel ploy. Poneglyph does a great job going over the story above but Pierroth getting tossed along with the crowd chanting for Porky was a great moment. I did like how the kiss from Miaximo was the final straw for Rush where he was able to mount enough offense to put Maximo away to prove his masculinity. This isn't a shocking revelation but Rush really does seem poised to be a star for years upon years to come. ****

 

Watched this because despite my general misgivings regarding Lucha, they do not apply to Rush who is my spirit animal. Maximo is actually probably third on my list of luchadores behind Rush and Negro Casas so I was excited to sit down and watch this today. I do not feel disappointed as Rush and Maximo are probably two of the most US style workers in CMLL as they do less mat work and work instead on beating the dog shit out of people if you are Rush and hitting his 3-4 really solid spots if you are Maximo. Holy fudge does Maximo hit that suicide dive like he is trying to actually kill himself. Just some of the best impact on the dive since Misawa's elbow variation. And he builds to those spots in a very effective and organic way. These two work well together as Rush can build the heat with the beatings and Maximo's spots work well as hope spots despite being physically outmatched. I think the seconds helped the match on some ends and were a minus in others as their brawl on the outside made me fear that Porky is about a week away from being in a coma. And Pierroth probably overplayed his part by interfering too liberally when he would have been more effective if he just did the entrance and took that one dive from Maximo before getting kicked out. That being said, I would highly recommend this to people who don't get lucha and need people to latch onto in order to gateway into the style. It's not indicative really but it will give you people to route for and follow.

[Bierschwale]

I really liked the Ultimo Guerrero vs. Bobby Lashley match from Elite. UG's refusal to stop playing to the crowd when he should he selling irritates me, but Lashley played off it really well with his "what the fuck is with this guy?" facials. UG was insanely over.

 

If they really go with the "bracket" of hair matches that leads to Rush-Volador at the Aniversario, it feels like the absolute worst handling of UG, who I think is easily their biggest hair draw right now. Fuckin' Thunder.

[EricR]

 

I wonder if there is anything different in the CMLL booking this year. It does feel different than the last few (well, other than the Esfinge tournament win.)

 

They seem at least to be matching the talented guys up more often without ruining things by throwing Porky or Pierroth in there.

 

 

Pierroth has been one of the most consistently awesome guys over the past year.

[Tim Evans]

I try to watch CMLL every week, at least the Friday shows. Used to watch all 3 but I find Puebla boring and the Tuesday shows are hit and miss. I stopped watching AAA almost completly after Triplemania last year. Too much rudo ref even for me and I'm not a big fan of a lot of the guys except Pentagon and Aerostar. I watch IWRG sometimes. Big fan of the Cerebro Nego vs El Hijo Del Diable feud from earlier this year. I try to watch the Freelance matches when he comes in. Also watch any Monterrey that gets uploaded. A lot of it is hit and miss but I just love the atmosphere. Like in last week's Cien Caras vs Rayo de Jalisco Jr match. They didn't lock up for 10 minutes and Cien's first move was a knee to the groin.

 

Does WWC count as Lucha? That's my favorite promotion in the world right now.

[Tim Cooke]

Weird question, but what do you folks watch week to week? Just the matches that peak your interest? Certain shows? Certain wrestlers? Hyped stuff?

 

I never know what to do with a giant playlist of everything that aired from all companies.

 

Mostly independent matches. Have ordered 4-5 times already from Black Terry Jr. this year especially if Virus, Terry, Navarro, Traumas, Cerebro, Caifan, or Hechicero are involved. Will watch the pimped/interesting AAA matches, usually when the full TV shows go up on the official YouTube channel but certainly not full shows (never been a complete full show person, though there are exceptions). Don't really catch much CMLL outside of recommendations or praised/terribly bad matches.

[pol]

 

 

I wonder if there is anything different in the CMLL booking this year. It does feel different than the last few (well, other than the Esfinge tournament win.)

 

They seem at least to be matching the talented guys up more often without ruining things by throwing Porky or Pierroth in there.

 

 

Pierroth has been one of the most consistently awesome guys over the past year.

 

 

I'll admit I've wondered if I've let the contempt others have for him colour my impression of him somewhat, but I'll still need a lot of convincing of this. From what I've seen he can be decent in brawls but frequently messes up anything more complex.

[jushin muta liger]

I'll guess I'll be in the minority saying I liked Volador/Dorada

 

Favorite lucha matches so far this year

 

Dragon Lee vs Kamaitachi: CMLL 3/4

Kamaitachi vs Maximo: CMLL 1/1

Volador Jr vs Caristico: Elite 4/6

Rey Horus vs Dragon Lee: Lucha Memes 3/6

Dr Wagner Jr vs Psycho Clown: AAA Rey de Reyes

Mascara Dorada vs Memphisto: CMLL 2/19

Mascara Dorada vs Barbaro Cavenario: CMLL 3/28

El Desmiasado and Los Kamikazes vs Freelance, Suicida, Super Mega, and Septimo Rayo: Lucha Memes 12/25

Rush vs Maximo: CMLL 3/18

 

Mascara Dorada has probably been my favorite worker in Mexico so far this year and his resume just keeps piling up. He's a very underrated guy, but I think he's having a Most Outstanding candidate kind of year. Can't wait for his upcoming match with Memphisto since I really liked their previous title match.

 

Any news on the Negro Casas/Hechicero match surfacing? Is it up anywhere yet?

You are not alone. I liked the match cause it was what it was supposed to be. I wasn't expecting limb work from these two. Granted Volador Jr is starting to annoy me in that he's doing a lot of the same stuff but I thought Dorada really brought it. UG is starting to be one of my favorites this year.

 

Quentin, when is the next Sorpresa Lucha podcast coming?

[Quentin Skinner]

 

I'll guess I'll be in the minority saying I liked Volador/Dorada

 

Favorite lucha matches so far this year

 

Dragon Lee vs Kamaitachi: CMLL 3/4

Kamaitachi vs Maximo: CMLL 1/1

Volador Jr vs Caristico: Elite 4/6

Rey Horus vs Dragon Lee: Lucha Memes 3/6

Dr Wagner Jr vs Psycho Clown: AAA Rey de Reyes

Mascara Dorada vs Memphisto: CMLL 2/19

Mascara Dorada vs Barbaro Cavenario: CMLL 3/28

El Desmiasado and Los Kamikazes vs Freelance, Suicida, Super Mega, and Septimo Rayo: Lucha Memes 12/25

Rush vs Maximo: CMLL 3/18

 

Mascara Dorada has probably been my favorite worker in Mexico so far this year and his resume just keeps piling up. He's a very underrated guy, but I think he's having a Most Outstanding candidate kind of year. Can't wait for his upcoming match with Memphisto since I really liked their previous title match.

 

Any news on the Negro Casas/Hechicero match surfacing? Is it up anywhere yet?

You are not alone. I liked the match cause it was what it was supposed to be. I wasn't expecting limb work from these two. Granted Volador Jr is starting to annoy me in that he's doing a lot of the same stuff but I thought Dorada really brought it. UG is starting to be one of my favorites this year.

 

Quentin, when is the next Sorpresa Lucha podcast coming?

 

Had some mic problems and timing just hasn't worked out the last couple of weeks. I hope to have my new mic in a few days though so expect one Sunday at the earliest.

[EricR]

 

 

 

I wonder if there is anything different in the CMLL booking this year. It does feel different than the last few (well, other than the Esfinge tournament win.)

 

They seem at least to be matching the talented guys up more often without ruining things by throwing Porky or Pierroth in there.

 

 

Pierroth has been one of the most consistently awesome guys over the past year.

 

 

I'll admit I've wondered if I've let the contempt others have for him colour my impression of him somewhat, but I'll still need a lot of convincing of this. From what I've seen he can be decent in brawls but frequently messes up anything more complex.

 

 

I was apparently unaware at how in the minority I am on liking Comandante Pierroth. Perhaps I've just gotten lucky with the sample of his matches I've watched over the last year plus. Prompted by your question and what I feel are some pretty unnecessary tweets aimed at me, I'm working on a blog post at Segunda Caida going over why I like Pierroth, and finding when he first started standing out to me as someone to check out.

[Ship Canal]

Are the weekly Friday CMLL shows known as Grabacion by any chance?

Asking because I stumbled across this youtube channel as I find Cubsfans uploads a bit overwhelming and I'm trying to keep up with Lucha closer to real time this year as opposed to just checking out pimped matches after the fact as I always have done. For some reason having the whole show in one whole video makes it feel less like a struggle to me, not really sure why. These Grabacion shows seem to be weekly and are around 2/2.5 hours long usually... sound right?

Anyway, this is the channel

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChAG8I8adk5m7_zIjyQq2RQ

[pol]

"Grabación" is Spanish for "recording". But yeah, those are the Friday Arena Mexico shows.

[Matt D]

I'm crashing before the main but this has been a pretty fun night of lucha at Puebla. Nothing amazing or anything but a lot of fun stuff. Solid lightning match with Dalys looking good. I really kind of love de facto babyface Peste Negra with Cavernario. Zacarias is so endearing. Plus there have been so many challenges. They almost have to do something next week. Even CMLL has to. I'm hoping for Cavernario vs Terrible since they matched up really well here.

[soup23]

Tuesday lucha drop, give me so recs guys.

[Matt D]

I enjoyed the Cavernario vs Cometa lightning match:

[soup23]

Rey Cometa vs. Cavernario

 

I had some issues with this. I talked to Matt privately that the buzz on Cavernario seems to have dropped a bit. He explained that Cavernario hasn't had as many high profile opportunities. I also think there is a projection of newness that Cavernario had in spades a couple of years ago. Regardless, I really enjoyed the apuestas match between these two but this match was too Cavernario heavy. What drew me to him was his wild and risky approach to even up the score in the matches he competed with. Here, he mainly led the encounters and while they were executed well, I didn't have much sympathy built in for Cometa. The cheating and the double worm was what it was. The dive to the outside was nice for Cometa but again it was followed up with more guzzling by Cavernario. The cheapness of the fall didn't resonate as well as Cometa picks up the win with the Canadian Destroyer out of nowhere but it felt like a situation where he was outclassed in every level leading up to that and he lucked into the finish.

[Matt D]

I appreciate those issues. I wonder if they structured it the way that they did because he was going to sneak out the win. Cavernario certainly didn't lose much heat in that loss. I think the bigger issue is this: I know Cometa hits his things well and he's looked pretty decent in the Elite matches vs the Traumas or what not from last year, but I think he, more than anyone I can think of as of late, was hurt by losing his mask. There's a real lack of it factor to him. I'm not entirely sure he had it before, but he definitely doesn't have it now. He really needs to do something with his look.

[Quentin Skinner]

So Volador Jr is in BOSJ. Saw some mixed reactions, but I'm looking forward to what he does.

[soup23]

What are the chances of Flamita coming into CMLL?

[Grimmas]

LA Park, La Parka, & EL Hijo del LA Park vs Rush, Pierroth, & Toscano (Lucha Elite, 4/27/2016)

 

The first fall was a wild brawl which was so much fun. LA Park hit an insane tope to take out rush leading to the first finish. The first fall was just a joy. The second fall had the Parks working as Los Brazos. Holy shit it was great funny, but still a wrestling match stuff. Fun but short second fall. The second fall starts with Rush taking a mini or a child out of the crowd and tossing him into ringside. Toscano throws him around for good measure. What the heck was that??? We get more wild ringside brawling until it settles down for a hot crowd. Rush and LA Park work really well together and I want to see more from those two. Just one singles match would rule the world. El Hijo del LA Park is coming along as a flying youngster. I LOVED the finish and it set up future matches. Fuck I loved this whole thing!

 

If I go **** am I nuts?

 

 

I also watched the CMLL Arena Mexico show from the weekend. Nothing stands out as great matches, but everything was a lot of fun. I can watch Hechicero & Blue Panther wrestle forever and I WANT to see as much of The Reaper as possible!

[WingedEagle]

Park(a)'s and Rush? Sign me up.

[soup23]

LA Park, La Parka, & EL Hijo del LA Park vs Rush, Pierroth, & Toscano (Lucha Elite, 4/27/2016)

 

Yeah, you are nuts Grimmas, ha. This had incredible heat and did made me for sure want to see Rush vs. LA Park in a singles, wild brawl but it also struggled when it wasn't those guys. Plus, while Park still has incredible charisma he is closer to LA Porky at this point and really moving slower. I hope they do the big match before he deteriorates even more. I did enjoy the little nino nearly crying as Park was getting beat up. Finish was fine but once again felt like a tecnico earning a victory that wasn't really earned. I would probably go around **3/4 for this one.

[jushin muta liger]

What are the chances of Flamita coming into CMLL?

I can see him working more Elite than CMLL. CMLL looks like they want to focus on Golfen Magic as their Indy newcomer. Also depends if the En Busco tournament is coming back.

[Sean Liska]

Love seeing this thread so active. CMLL has felt pretty inspired since last August, Rush is probably my favorite overall performer in this post-Bryan world, and the company has so many talented guys. The Friday night streams have been a blessing.

[pol]

I didn't dig into the matches yet, but here's EricR's defense of Pierroth: http://segundacaida.blogspot.co.uk/2016/05/on-liking-comandante-pierroth.html

 

I agree that bad-faith nonsense is uncalled for. Much more interesting (and less toxic) to discuss the substance of someone's argument than question their motives.