Backlash 2016: Kicking off the 2 PPVs a month era

[anarchistxx]

-

 

-Women's match was great. I don't think I'm going out on a limb here by saying it was better than any women's match pre-2005 in wrestling history.

 

Um, you would be going out on a huge fucking limb, yes. Ever watched any Joshi?

[anarchistxx]

Even if we are only talking US wrestling, that is still a massively erroneous statement. The 6-Pac was fun for what it was, a fun sprint and a showcase with some huge moments. As perfect as it was for this particular show, it wasn't a memorable classic by any means, far too many flaws for that.

[Jimmy Redman]

Even if he only meant in WWE itself...yeah that's still a hard no.

 

And I loved the match by the way. Everyone played their role and looked good, they packed a tonne of shit into it, and I could watch Nikki forearm bitches until the end of time itself.

[TravJ1979]

Even if he only meant in WWE itself...yeah that's still a hard no.

 

And I loved the match by the way. Everyone played their role and looked good, they packed a tonne of shit into it, and I could watch Nikki forearm bitches until the end of time itself.

I meant only US. And while there may be contenders around 2000-2004, name a better women's match pre-2000. The only contender's I can think of is Blayze/Nakano and JBA/Glamour Girls. 6 pack beats them both, and it was less than ****

[TravJ1979]

Sorry Double Response.

[Jimmy Redman]

Matt this is the Judy Martin bat signal you've been waiting for!

[Matt D]

He mentioned her at least!

[NintendoLogic]

I liked the six-pack match, but JBA/Glamour Girls at MSG blows it out of the water.

[El-P]

-The women (Work and Wardrobe), Miz and The main made this a great ppv.

Add in Heel Usos, and you got my opinion summed up there. I'm pretty amazed.

[Jesse Ewiak]

The best thing for the Wyatt Family is to make Luke Harper, the actual good worker of the group the 'guy' in the group and make Bray a cult leader who a top babyface has a match with every 4 to 6 months to blow off a program.

[Codysseus]

Having Bray talk less and win more could also help.

[TravJ1979]

I liked the six-pack match, but JBA/Glamour Girls at MSG blows it out of the water.

To each his own. I simply disagree.

 

The fact that we have to go back to 87/88 speaks volumes.

 

From the first women's matches available on tape to the early 90's (with the exception of the 6 months in 87/88 with GG/JBA) women's wrestling in the US was nothing more than one piece swimsuits and hair mares.

 

Then you have the year and a half of Blayze/Morgan/Nakano/Faye although in that whole time there were very few TV matches and even less variety.

 

Women's wrestling is pretty much dead, aside from random Debbie Combs/Malia Hosaka Nitro matches until the summer of 1998, but Sable v. Tori isn't setting any fires. In fact, until the Trish/Lita era in early 2000's, it was all crap.

 

2000 to 2005 you have a slow, but steady progression in the quality of women's matches in WWE and with Shimmer starting, things are starting to look bright and at this point I'd have a hard time defending last nights women's match against the best stuff from this era.

 

EDIT: As I typed this I actually recalled the Madusa v. Hokuto match from Bash '97, Madusa's "retirement" match. I'd site that as the best match before 2005 in the US. Still would take the 6 pack over it.

[goc]

Having Bray talk less and win more could also help.

Recycle that box they stuck the Spirit Squad in and just change the label from "To OVW" to "To TNA" and that solves the Bray Wyatt problem.

[TravJ1979]

It's not Bray's fault. The fact they split the Wyatts, put them back together, fed him to Taker too early and really overexposed him is what took the shine off the character, which was his strongest asset.

[jcmmnx]

Baby face Heath Slater was my favorite thing on this show. Rhyno went from a guy I never wanted to see in NXT again to part of the best angle in WWE. Alexa is going to be a star if she keeps improving in the ring. Heel Usos is very promising. Miz/Ziggler was solid, and Miz is a tremendous midcard heel act. I think the only AJ match I haven't liked this year was the Cena finisher fest. Dude is on fire.

[Superstar Sleeze]

AJ Styles has been my favorite wrestler since 2004. No wrestler has caused me to travel out of state more than AJ to see him live. Hell I went to see Slammiversary in 2013 main evented by fucking Sting vs Bubba Ray Dudley just so I could see AJ Styles. Even though I expected him to win and had been spoiled, I am just incredibly happy that the best wrestler of the past 15 years has not only become critically acclaimed but has risen to the apex of being WWE World Champion. I love pro wrestling! AJ STYLES BEST IN THE FUCKING WORLD!!!

[WashingtonFB]

So you guys would say AJ is a better worker than Danielson?

[Superstar Sleeze]

So you guys would say AJ is a better worker than Danielson?

Haven't seen enough Indy Danielson. Daniel Bryan was the better character. AJ has crushed him in WWE vs WWE resume. Doesn't blow off selling like Bryan. Doesn't do KENTA million miles per hour tributes as his finish run. AJ is measured and logical. Incredible sense of progression. Unique in-ring narratives. Execution one of the best of all time. A bumping God!

[fxnj]

 

I liked the six-pack match, but JBA/Glamour Girls at MSG blows it out of the water.

 

To each his own. I simply disagree.

 

The fact that we have to go back to 87/88 speaks volumes.

 

From the first women's matches available on tape to the early 90's (with the exception of the 6 months in 87/88 with GG/JBA) women's wrestling in the US was nothing more than one piece swimsuits and hair mares.

 

Then you have the year and a half of Blayze/Morgan/Nakano/Faye although in that whole time there were very few TV matches and even less variety.

 

Women's wrestling is pretty much dead, aside from random Debbie Combs/Malia Hosaka Nitro matches until the summer of 1998, but Sable v. Tori isn't setting any fires. In fact, until the Trish/Lita era in early 2000's, it was all crap.

 

2000 to 2005 you have a slow, but steady progression in the quality of women's matches in WWE and with Shimmer starting, things are starting to look bright and at this point I'd have a hard time defending last nights women's match against the best stuff from this era.

 

EDIT: As I typed this I actually recalled the Madusa v. Hokuto match from Bash '97, Madusa's "retirement" match. I'd site that as the best match before 2005 in the US. Still would take the 6 pack over it.

That early 40's and 50's period is actually remembered as the golden age for women's wrestling in the US and it was Mildred Burke touring Japan that set the table for the joshi boom. Even going by the limited footage up on YouTube you can see the women from back then were clearly quite good. That it declined in the mainstream 70's onwards aside from some brief hot periods is a fair point, but footage availability is an issue there as most of the good workers seem to have predominately wrestled for untaped indy promotions.

[Coffey]

So you guys would say AJ is a better worker than Danielson?

 

Goodness no. I think Danielson is leagues better.

[TravJ1979]

 

 

I liked the six-pack match, but JBA/Glamour Girls at MSG blows it out of the water.

To each his own. I simply disagree.

 

The fact that we have to go back to 87/88 speaks volumes.

 

From the first women's matches available on tape to the early 90's (with the exception of the 6 months in 87/88 with GG/JBA) women's wrestling in the US was nothing more than one piece swimsuits and hair mares.

 

Then you have the year and a half of Blayze/Morgan/Nakano/Faye although in that whole time there were very few TV matches and even less variety.

 

Women's wrestling is pretty much dead, aside from random Debbie Combs/Malia Hosaka Nitro matches until the summer of 1998, but Sable v. Tori isn't setting any fires. In fact, until the Trish/Lita era in early 2000's, it was all crap.

 

2000 to 2005 you have a slow, but steady progression in the quality of women's matches in WWE and with Shimmer starting, things are starting to look bright and at this point I'd have a hard time defending last nights women's match against the best stuff from this era.

 

EDIT: As I typed this I actually recalled the Madusa v. Hokuto match from Bash '97, Madusa's "retirement" match. I'd site that as the best match before 2005 in the US. Still would take the 6 pack over it.

That early 40's and 50's period is actually remembered as the golden age for women's wrestling in the US and it was Mildred Burke touring Japan that set the table for the joshi boom. Even going by the limited footage up on YouTube you can see the women from back then were clearly quite good. That it declined in the mainstream 70's onwards aside from some brief hot periods is a fair point, but footage availability is an issue there as most of the good workers seem to have predominately wrestled for untaped indy promotions.

 

I think people just had a knee jerk reaction to me saying the backlash women's match was better than any US women's match pre-2005. On the surface, it does sound like a ridiculous claim. Furthermore, that statement shouldn't be taken so much as praise of the Backlash match as it was an indictment on the quality of US women's wrestling prior to ~10 years ago.

[NintendoLogic]

I don't think anyone would dispute that women's wrestling in WWE overall is leagues better now than it was pre-2005. But when you essentially say that there were no great women's matches at all before then, you're opening yourself up.

[Superstar Sleeze]

 

 

So you guys would say AJ is a better worker than Danielson?

Goodness no. I think Danielson is leagues better.

Really in what way? Like I can see why Bryan may be better but to say there is a gulf seems a bit of an exaggeration to me. In terms of offense, Bryan is more prone to the mat, but AJ can certainly go; AJ's strikes are better in my opinion and he is the better flyer. AJ is a better bumper than AJ. Bryan can be better at the act of selling but also more prone to blowing it off. AJ is the better trash talking heel who works awesome control segments. Daniel Bryan's finish run is electric but often feels show horned into the match. Hands down Bryan is the better character. So his matches implicitly have more emotion but that should not be conflated with him being the better wrestler. As I think AJ is able to get more out of a variety of opponents in a variety of settings. I say it is close but I'm sticking with AJ

[Childs]

 

AJ has crushed him in WWE vs WWE resume.

 

As great a run as AJ is on, this is wildly premature. You're talking eight months of work vs. more than four years. And I'd say your critiques of Bryan apply more to his work as a hot tag (granted, a role he played often) than to his high-end singles stuff. I'm not dismissing the idea that AJ could build a stronger WWE resume than Bryan. But he needs to endure.

 

And when you look at the last 15 years, I still don't see it as a particularly close call. Bryan was so good against such a wide variety of opponents while AJ was stuck in fucking TNA. If we're talking skills vs. skills, I can see a case for them being very close. But on body of work? AJ has a ways to go. I hope he gets there, because that would be great for all of us.

[TravJ1979]

I don't think anyone would dispute that women's wrestling in WWE overall is leagues better now than it was pre-2005. But when you essentially say that there were no great women's matches at all before then, you're opening yourself up.

In ECW, SMW, NWA, TNA, USWA or any other non-WWE company, I have never seen a "good" women's match, let alone a great one pre-2005.

 

WCW had a few good ones, Madusa/Hokuto probably being the best. WWE pre-2005 didn't have any good women's matches aside from the ones we've already covered, and notice that Joshi wrestlers had to be involved for it to even reach the level of discussion, JBA, Nakano, etc.

 

So that is about 55 years of televised wrestling and less than about 10 matches are viable enough to even be considered. With that said, I am a huge fan of women's wrestling, even the bad stuff, and have sought out everything I can find from the 90-04 era. Pre-90's is hard to come by, but I've sought them out as well. I even once considered writing an article or some type of piece on the history of women's wrestling. I've started and stopped numerous times, but have a lot of files so maybe someday.