Strong Style Wrestling.?

[Therealheel]

"Strong Style" now is much more about branding than an actual style of professional wrestling.

 

I would even go and say that nowadays, NJPW and WWE are as close in terms of style as they have ever been. Is WWE Strong Style too?

i would say WWE uses the Style Of Strong , yes. WWE is starting to use it and it's becoming part of the production , part of the wresting , so I would consider it Strong Style in many matches that are worked , so on one branch of the production , WWE is most defiantly Strong Style. Strong Style is a style of wrestling. If it's a style that has been created in the wrestling world , how is NOT a style? Its just not being excepted is it?

[superkix]

 

 

 

Hardly anyone in Japan wrestles "strong style" anymore. It's more or less dead as the general trend in Japan seems to be moving more and more toward "sports entertainment".

I dont see this with my watching at all. So many guys wrestle strong style in Japan. Loads. A trend lasts 2-5 years. Strong style has lasted over 30. It's not a trend. It's growing in Japan. It's growing in Europe. Why do you think it's dead in Japan? What have you watched in Japan to give you that impression? Just curious , no intentions here.

It's definitely not growing in Japan. I'd say Shibata is like the only active major player who still wrestles "strong style".

Umm. I am just curious to what you been watching? Have been watching anything in the tag league this year? or the way Evil , Ishii , Kyle o Riley , Nagata , Kojima are working this style in a lot of the matches , juice robinsons work is becoming very much in this mold , the Never Open title Has been positioned around and the matches have been worked in this style for about two years now. Its dead in Japan? To the fans? The fans don't like it? Explain how they go nuts for the Shibata worked strong style match?

 

 

I haven't watched the tag league but I've watched plenty of New Japan matches from this year. I'll give you Nagata, I'd say he worked more of a "strong style" than any of the other guys you mentioned. But in my opinion, guys like Ishii and Evil fit more into the "King's Road" style of offense. I don't know. It's all so bastardized now.

[Therealheel]

That's the problem. I don't even know what "Strong Style" really is.

 

If you say "ECW style" I expect broken tables and fire and crowd brawls.

 

If you say "Lucha style" then I expect a lot of intricate, complex, multi-man spots and dives through the ropes.

 

If you said "Worked shoot style" I expect a lot of grappling and submission attempts, and not so much (or any) high flying.

 

If you say "King's Road" I (unfortunately) expect hard elbow strikes, hard chops, and people getting suplexed onto the top of their heads.

 

Because I didn't watch a lot of NJPW Heavyweights (except for Hashimoto) I never really understood what Strong Style was supposed to mean anyhow, which is why I assumed it was a NJPW marketing thing.

That's an awesome answer! Thank you. I appreciate that. I agree with you on everything you said. Now. Strong style Is a Style of professional wrestling heavy in strikes, kicks, punches, etc.

 

How is this not being considered a style? This is a style. Is it not? Am I missing something? Can someone tell me what I am missing?

Now. Is a bias towards Strong Style existing here? Nobody is stepping up and answering that question specifically. Could someone indulge me please.

[Therealheel]

 

 

 

 

Hardly anyone in Japan wrestles "strong style" anymore. It's more or less dead as the general trend in Japan seems to be moving more and more toward "sports entertainment".

 

I dont see this with my watching at all. So many guys wrestle strong style in Japan. Loads. A trend lasts 2-5 years. Strong style has lasted over 30. It's not a trend. It's growing in Japan. It's growing in Europe. Why do you think it's dead in Japan? What have you watched in Japan to give you that impression? Just curious , no intentions here.

It's definitely not growing in Japan. I'd say Shibata is like the only active major player who still wrestles "strong style".

Umm. I am just curious to what you been watching? Have been watching anything in the tag league this year? or the way Evil , Ishii , Kyle o Riley , Nagata , Kojima are working this style in a lot of the matches , juice robinsons work is becoming very much in this mold , the Never Open title Has been positioned around and the matches have been worked in this style for about two years now. Its dead in Japan? To the fans? The fans don't like it? Explain how they go nuts for the Shibata worked strong style match?

I haven't watched the tag league but I've watched plenty of New Japan matches from this year. I'll give you Nagata, I'd say he worked more of a "strong style" than any of the other guys you mentioned. But in my opinion, guys like Ishii and Evil fit more into the "King's Road" style of offense. I don't know. It's all so bastardized now.

You would be amazed how Juice is evolving into this style , he is becoming very similar to what Strong Style is. Evil is also using this in most matches , and I forgot that Makabe is doing it , they work matches in this style. oh jesus and Goto. Goto been doing it for years. It's a style guys. Matches are worked in this style. Is it just not an accepted Style?

[elliott]

I was under the impression that New Japan has always called their "style" of wrestling "Strong Style." In the 80s and 90s Meltzer and WON readers would often refer to UWF/UWFi/RINGS as "Strong Style," but they were wrong.

[superkix]

I've always thought of "strong style" as shoot-style with the added rush of "fighting spirit". But I don't know if it was defined outside of Inoki wanting to showcase pro-wrestling as a legitimate form of martial arts.

[JerryvonKramer]

I picture Inoki putting some poor fuck he hasn't given anything to in an octopus with me passed out on the sofa, drool starting to run out of the side of my mouth.

[Childs]

I picture Inoki putting some poor fuck he hasn't given anything to in an octopus with me passed out on the sofa, drool starting to run out of the side of my mouth.

As good a definition as any!

[ohtani's jacket]

That's the problem. I don't even know what "Strong Style" really is.

 

If you say "ECW style" I expect broken tables and fire and crowd brawls.

 

If you say "Lucha style" then I expect a lot of intricate, complex, multi-man spots and dives through the ropes.

 

If you said "Worked shoot style" I expect a lot of grappling and submission attempts, and not so much (or any) high flying.

 

If you say "King's Road" I (unfortunately) expect hard elbow strikes, hard chops, and people getting suplexed onto the top of their heads.

 

Because I didn't watch a lot of NJPW Heavyweights (except for Hashimoto) I never really understood what Strong Style was supposed to mean anyhow, which is why I assumed it was a NJPW marketing thing.

 

Strong style is the fighting style that Inoki adopted when he established New Japan. It was directly influenced by Karl Gotch's European catch-as-can style but also had a certain number of martial arts influences as well. It's best demonstrated by the Inoki vs. Gotch fight from the inaugural New Japan show. The idea was to present wrestling as a combat sport. New Japan wrestlers wore nothing but black trunks and black shoes, and elbow and knee protectors, and concentrated primiarily on strength conditioning and offensive and defensive wrestling techniques. Inoki liked to claim that pro-wrestling had the strongest fighting spirit and that New Japan was the King of Sports and to back that up he had worked MMA fights with Willem Ruska, Mohammad Ali and Willie Williams that furthered the "legend" of New Japan pro-wrestling being the strongest fighting style in the world.

 

Later, the house style shifted more toward Riki Choshu's style of wrestling and that house style became, IMO, what most fans associate strong style with -- long periods of mat work, a key focus on the lariat as a signature New Japan move, pretty much every wrestler utilizing submission finishers like the crucifix armbar (regardless of how much of a "technical" wrestler they are), the same generic Strong Style look (plain trucks and boots) and the added touch of workers having destructive moves like the brain buster in their repertoire. The best example of this version of Strong Style is probably the Choshu vs. Fujinami series.

 

Personally, I think it as both a wrestling style and a marketing tool. But when other promotions adopt the Strong Style label they're really referring to the Choshu version. I don't think there are too many indie promotions around aping Inoki's philosophies. If there are, it's probably more of an influence from the so-called "Inokism" period of the late 90s-early 00s where he tried to reinstall the MMA element that had made him a star.

 

I also think Strong Style is a classic case of Japanese English. This is just my assumption but I think it really refers to New Japan pro-wrestling being the "strongest style" rather than a certain style that is "strong" (i.e. hard-hitting, etc.)

[gingears]

 

Hiroshi Tanahashi made the case for why NJPW had to do away with the concept in his book.

I'm not sure if people missed it because this board can be not very good at showing links as actual links but this IS a link to where Tanahashi talked about why New Japan needed to move away from Strong Style and I thought it was really interesting.

 

Sorry, I could not get the link to post on its own for some reason.

[joeg]

There was an interview with Punk awhile back where he was talking about working on the indies. Laying out the matches guys who were hacks would say stuff like "i hope its ok that I work strong style" and Punk always made the point that no they didn't work strong style because it wasn't 1982 and they weren't working for Inoki. What many indie guys perceive as strong style is just potatoeing the other guy, which is kind of being a dick.

 

Strong style hasn't been a thing for a long time. In theory Strong Style is whatever style New Japan is working. But right now their style is a lot closer to the style the New Japan juniors were working 20 years ago than what Inoki marketed as Strong Style. The only guys working that style right now on the New Japan roster are the guys who were trained by Inoki or Choshu.

 

And more importantly, its more than a style. Its an attitude and a belief that pro wrestlers should be able beat any shooter in a shoot. Its the belief that pro wrestling is the most superior form of martial arts. If anything killed strong style it was Cro Cop and Fedor beating all of the New Japan heavyweights pretty easily in Pride. I think the mixed style fights where Inoki defended the legitimacy of pro wrestling were really what strong style is all about. And I think Pride sort of killed that.

[gordi]

What has been said so far is correct: Strong Style used to mean Inoki Style, then later it mostly meant Choshu Style.

 

What "Strong Style" means now is mostly: "We are going to pander to fans who have either seen a few Japanese matches on the internet and/or are into watching Shinsuke Nakamura on NXT." Ten years ago, seeing "Strong Style" on a wrestling poster might have made me more likely to seek it out. Now... it's probably more of a turn-off. To me, it seems like a warning that there is a real danger that what is going to be presented is pandering cosplay-style wrestling. Indy guys copying what they have seen other wrestlers doing, instead of doing their own thing. Also, that there will not be much variety on the show, just lots of people kicking hard, whether that is what they are good at or not.

 

So in my case at least there is a bias against it.

 

Hope that helps answer your question.

[G. Badger]

Strong style in the US means stiff wrestling style. This is an appropriation of its origin stemming back to Inoki championing pro wrestling as the strongest martial art. In essence- Catch wrestling with protected worked moves mixed in.

 

Dory vs Inoki, Billy vs Inoki, Fujinami vs Maeda, Fujinami vs Inoki, Hashimoto vs Hase, and maybe Kobashi vs Hase in AJPW would be some examples of pure strong style's evolution throughout Japan's Golden era....Batt-batt is some Inoki strong style revival for sure as is Shibata vs Sakuraba 2015, which maybe Inoki's perfect example of Strong Style.

 

Really, I think the closest to straight Strong Style in the States is what Danielson was doing in ROH. Its in the emphasis on matwork and an apparent legit finish.

 

But, in the West its just a generic term for 'puroresu-like' wrestling now...maybe due to BJW's Strong BJW style..which is more like Choshu, Tenryu, Jumbo mid to late AJPW..hope this helps the OP

[BBscout]

I didn't know the NJPW history spelled out here, so I thought all it means is hit each other hard.

[Matt D]

Yeah. Overblown No-selling forearm and chop fighting spirit exchanges. That's what my brain says.

[ohtani's jacket]

The chop exchanges really began with Hashimoto vs. Tenryu in 1998. I can't think of any instances of it before then. It was taken to the next level in the 00s by workers like Kobashi and Sasaki, but I don't think you can call that Strong Style. Modern NJPW (with the forearm exchanges in every bout) have explicitly said they don't adhere to Strong Style.

[Matt D]

I guess my point is that there's a sort of conventional wisdom meaning to it if you were to ask people not here? It's nice to know the genesis of it, but it, like workrate or sprint or anything else, has a certain popular connotation. I get using facts to bully away the guy who was exasperating and full of himself, but if you had asked me yesterday before I read this thread, I'd have probably shrugged and indicated I thought "strong style" was more of an AJPW thing than a NJPW thing and really was mainly about no-selling strike exchanges and hitting each other hard instead of actually working that was then picked up by a lot of 2000 indies as they were trying to emulate what Meltzer gave lots of stars to?

 

Obviously, that would have been factually inaccurate in a lot of ways, but I don't think it would have been unfair, if that makes sense.

[ohtani's jacket]

I think that's fair. I think people are also working backwards a lot of the time. I mean nobody called the All Japan style "King's Road" or referred to Kawada, Misawa, Kobashi and Taue as the "four pillars" when I first heard of All Japan Pro-Wrestling.

[BBscout]

Its like the evolution of a word on the internet...stiff to snug to strong style. You never hear stiff anymore.

[fxnj]

I was under the impression that King's Road and four pillars were translations of marketing terms used by Baba in oudou and shitennou.

[Zoo Enthusiast]

This dude had a short run but he packed a lot of awful into it.

[fxnj]

What did he do to get banned? I enjoyed reading his dissident opinions.

[goc]

What did he do to get banned? I enjoyed reading his dissident opinions.

I think it was his propensity for getting very hostile and personal when people disagreed with him like in the NXT Takeover thread and the Tommy End/Chris Hero match review.

[BigBadMick]

Oh, he's gone? His podcast was a bit bonkers too.

[Ricky Jackson]

Yeah, just a bit