Grimmas Posted March 7, 2017 Report Share Posted March 7, 2017 If people could stop body shaming in this thread, that would be greatly appreciated. If it's tiresome to you, just ignore the topic and move on. Obviously you don't want to discuss it, so don't post about it and everybody will move on. I would love to talk about it. I haven't seen any argument that states body shaming is good for society yet, though.From all the reading, and talking to people and evidence I can see, body shaming is a serious issue in North America at least. You should see what it's like in a place like China if you think its bad here. Even at America's worst, we got nothing on that. I'm sorry, but the argument that it's worse somewhere else isn't an argument for anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rzombie1988 Posted March 7, 2017 Report Share Posted March 7, 2017 If people could stop body shaming in this thread, that would be greatly appreciated. If it's tiresome to you, just ignore the topic and move on. Obviously you don't want to discuss it, so don't post about it and everybody will move on. I would love to talk about it. I haven't seen any argument that states body shaming is good for society yet, though.From all the reading, and talking to people and evidence I can see, body shaming is a serious issue in North America at least. You should see what it's like in a place like China if you think its bad here. Even at America's worst, we got nothing on that. I'm sorry, but the argument that it's worse somewhere else isn't an argument for anything. It's a worldwide thing. Not US exclusive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stro Posted March 7, 2017 Report Share Posted March 7, 2017 Even just saying someone is fat isn't inherently shaming any more than saying someone is a woman is sexist, or saying someone is black is racist. You keep "calling people out". I don't know what you think you're accomplishing besides constantly derailing conversations and making people not want to engage with you. Remember that this round started with someone who assumed ROH crowds didn't like Bull Dempsey because he's overweight and wrestling fans hate fat people all because he hadn't actually watched or known anything about Bull besides seeing that he was a husky guy. So he projected that wrestling fans hate fat people > ROH fans are wrestling fans > ROH fans hate Bull because he's fat. The only person body shaming was the guy who assumed people must not like this guy because he isn't built like Finn Balor. No one was shitting on anyone's looks or bodies except random projection on a subject the original poster was ignorant on to begin with that had nothing to do with bodies. Then you going crazy and "calling people out" made this thread spend 2 pages talking about bodies and who is in or isn't in shape. So, congrats on calling people out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimmas Posted March 8, 2017 Report Share Posted March 8, 2017 It actually started when someone claimed fans don't hate overweight wrestlers. All I did was state a reason why I think they do and questioned what someone met by the term "overweight". That is nothing like you said at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stro Posted March 8, 2017 Report Share Posted March 8, 2017 That's usually what people mean when they say overweight. Do you think you could put yourself in the headspace of another human who might think these men are over a normal or desirable weight? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Sorrow Posted March 8, 2017 Report Share Posted March 8, 2017 What's wrong with saying someone is fat? If there's no malice behind it, who cares? I'm fat. I used to be skinny, and now I'm fat. Can we call Bastion Booger fat? Cause that dude was fat. It's just an observation, not a judgement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimmas Posted March 8, 2017 Report Share Posted March 8, 2017 The problem with the term overweight is that the person saying it has no idea if that's true or not. Do you know what someone's ideal body weight is? Also calling an athlete like Chris Hero overweight or fat, when they are doing amazing athletic things.. is just odd. What are you even doing or what is the point? For Johnny, it depends on the person. The connotations are there and can be really hurtful. Obviously there are exceptions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeg Posted March 8, 2017 Report Share Posted March 8, 2017 I actually am of the opinion Hero gaining weight and now pushing 300 made him more marketable. Before he was this tall, lanky, gangly guy with no character or personality or look. Now he's THE fat guy who can really move and bumps really well as opposed to just another guy who moves well and can bump well. Now he's the modern Buddy Rose. I know that seems illogical but the extra 50 pounds of gut added something to his character. He stands out now. I'm of the opinion that a wrestler can't look like everybody else. If that means being fatter like Buddy and Dusty or more jacked like Luger or Lesnar, or smaller like Rey, it doesn't matter. But if a guy is 6'2" 235 and looks just like everybody else is when they get lost in the shuffle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.S. Posted March 8, 2017 Report Share Posted March 8, 2017 I don't follow ROH, but am I wrong in assuming that Bull is probably a better wrestler than 90% of the ROH roster because actually has big league experience (NXT) instead of just bingo hall experience? Bubba Ray is a piece of shit who is an absolute embarrassment and albatross when it comes to representing the wrestling business, and that has nothing to do with his weight. I'm proud that he's one of only two wrestlers who have blocked me on Twitter (the other being Ryback, and I'm still scratching my head as to why - I was only ever complimentary toward him, so who knows). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stro Posted March 8, 2017 Report Share Posted March 8, 2017 Someone can be overweight and still be highly athletic. One doesn't negate the other from being possible. 70% of the NFL are 300+ dudes who are freakishly athletic but also intentionally being as overweight as they can get while still keeping their athleticism. Someone saying Chris Hero is fat isn't diminishing his athletic abilities. In fact, it makes his athleticism more impressive. Just because someone is overweight doesn't mean they aren't athletic, and just because someone is athletic doesn't mean they aren't overweight. These are unrelated issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted March 8, 2017 Report Share Posted March 8, 2017 Yes, you are very wrong to think he is better than 90% of the roster. I'm going to be honest. I was fat my entire life until about a month ago. I kind of wish more people had stepped on my toes about it. I might have done something about it sooner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Thread Killer Posted March 8, 2017 Report Share Posted March 8, 2017 What's wrong with saying someone is fat? If there's no malice behind it, who cares? I'm fat. I used to be skinny, and now I'm fat. Can we call Bastion Booger fat? Cause that dude was fat. It's just an observation, not a judgement. This, X 100. I am also a big fat guy. I stand 5'11, and weigh well over 300 pounds. I used to weigh around 200 pounds, when I worked out at the gym three times a week and did 45 minutes on a treadmill every day. When I stopped doing that, and replaced that workout regimen with a strict routine which involves my sofa, watching television, and the intake of large amounts of beer and pizza, my weight went up. I have no problem with being a fat guy. I'd have to be an idiot if I had a problem with it, because it's what I am. If I didn't want to be a fat guy any more, I'd put down the remote control and the pizza and beer, and go back to the gym. I don't want to do that. It's hard, and I didn't like it. What baffles me is those who think that if we stop pointing out the fact that there are fat people, somehow magic fairies will appear, sprinkle us all with sunshine and rainbows, and we'll all join hands and dance in a circle celebrating the fact that we're all different. I don't want that. It's stupid, and dancing around in a circle would make me short of breath, because I'm too damn fat. Plus I hate this stupid idea that we can't say fat because we don't want to "fat shame" the fat people. I don't give a damn if somebody "fat shames" me because I'm not ashamed of who I am or how I look. I'm amazing, and even if I am fat, I'm still dead sexy. People need to stop being so damn sensitive about everything and grow a thicker skin. Bull James is a fat guy. Kevin Owens has a big belly, because he doesn't like to go to the gym. These are facts, and I don't care if they're "fat shaming" because they're true. If we live in a world where you're not allowed to tell the truth anymore because you might offend somebody, then we're all in a lot of trouble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeg Posted March 8, 2017 Report Share Posted March 8, 2017 I like Bubba btw. Anybody who is 6'4 300 pounds plus and can bump the way he can AND can cut a promo is good in my book. I haven't seen a lot of Bull Dempsey. I remember him being kind of a comedy act... Can he bump the way Bubba or Hero can? Can he talk the way Bubba can? Can we move well? Is he light on his feet like Hero? Does he work like a proper 300 pound guy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.S. Posted March 8, 2017 Report Share Posted March 8, 2017 Nobody dislikes Bubba as a wrestler - we just think he's a bad representative for wrestling based on his ridiculous Twitter behavior. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stro Posted March 8, 2017 Report Share Posted March 8, 2017 Nobody dislikes Bubba as a wrestler - we just think he's a bad representative for wrestling based on his ridiculous Twitter behavior. Oh plenty of people dislike Bubba as a wrestler. Dude was a liberty taking sack of shit with younger talent and was still trying it in the recent WWE run until Big E fucked his world up one match. Bully Ray was (initially) a pretty great character, but he certainly didn't have any great matches with the gimmick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffey Posted March 8, 2017 Report Share Posted March 8, 2017 (edited) EDIT: My reply here was terrible & unwarranted. I am embarrassed & ashamed of it and an apology has been issued. Edited March 13, 2017 by Coffey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Redman Posted March 8, 2017 Report Share Posted March 8, 2017 Nobody dislikes Bubba as a wrestler - we just think he's a bad representative for wrestling based on his ridiculous Twitter behavior. Oh plenty of people dislike Bubba as a wrestler. Dude was a liberty taking sack of shit with younger talent and was still trying it in the recent WWE run until Big E fucked his world up one match. Bully Ray was (initially) a pretty great character, but he certainly didn't have any great matches with the gimmick. He had at least two - vs AJ Styles and vs Aries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KawadaSmile Posted March 8, 2017 Report Share Posted March 8, 2017 People rip Cheeseburger all the time for being too thin. He is also a lower card guy though. Seriously? Never really saw that. Most people I saw commenting on him were "in" on his character He's also an outright comedy guy whose tiny frame is like...the main point of the comedy. Grimmas, you can have your one man battle, but confronting people every time they say something that you think might be offensive to someone somewhere is just going to make people push harder against you and that. Which is why I seldom saw any criticism of his frame. He, much like Hero, makes his unusual body type (for this business, that is) work to his advantage. Of course, he is a comedy low card guy, and Hero is a upper card to main event level fella, but both use their different images to their advantages. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stro Posted March 8, 2017 Report Share Posted March 8, 2017 Exactly. Which is why it is so stupid that Grimmas gets so bent out of shape on people talking about Hero's weight, since his weight has been a huge part of his character and career in the past 2-3 years, and it has HELPED him quite a bit. I'm sure he's making more money in NXT now than he was 3-4 years ago, and his weight is a significant reason for that. His weight gain was the biggest shot in the arm to his career that he had had in about a decade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rzombie1988 Posted March 8, 2017 Report Share Posted March 8, 2017 I really don't think his weight gain has helped him. I don't believe he got any extra bookings due to his weight gain only. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Sorrow Posted March 8, 2017 Report Share Posted March 8, 2017 Rick Rude shouldn't be going into the Hall of Fame. It's hurtful how often he fat shamed all those sweathogs in the crowd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KawadaSmile Posted March 8, 2017 Report Share Posted March 8, 2017 I really don't think his weight gain has helped him. I don't believe he got any extra bookings due to his weight gain only. I don't think he lost any bookings as well because of it. I remember watching him tagging with Cesaro in NOAH, wearing some awful looking pants and doing wacky holds. After watching him in the indies in the last 2 years he seemed like a pretty damn different wrestler, not only due to his build, but because he also changed his style so it fit his body type better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G. Badger Posted March 8, 2017 Report Share Posted March 8, 2017 Hero in the past few years with the weight behind him has made his young KO kid/KO artist/Elbowing bully gimmick truly believable. His weight/build is the antithesis to most Indy wrestlers as well so, when he throws an elbow or kick, that force is there. Its like Hashimoto going up against a young Otani. Still if he puts some more muscle on underneath he'd be a boss like Hansen, Gordy, Hash, or Morishima even...but, I ain't complainin' Has anyone mentioned short wrestlers or guys that appeared too thin BTW? How short is too short to be taken seriously? Or thin? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyPulis'Cap Posted March 8, 2017 Report Share Posted March 8, 2017 Think it may have been my line then that set this all off, but that really wasn't what I was intending! Maybe 'overweight' wasn't the best term to use then - thank you to those that have highlighted the points about peoples optimum weights etc being different - I think I was just responding using the terminology that another poster used, I certainly wasn't trying to body shame anyone. I was actually just trying to say that I didn't think fans did care that much about a guy wrestling being a bigger guy, more that currently, people actually seem to quite enjoy seeing a big guy that moves well and is athletic! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted March 8, 2017 Report Share Posted March 8, 2017 Fans still care about body types to an extent, but I do think it matters less now than it has maybe ever. Fans like wrestlers who can go. Now I do think there are aspects of wrestling that aren't as flashy that some fans don't appreciate as much, and some of those are often employed by bigger wrestlers, but I see that as a different conversation. As for the size debate, I think the main thing that has always bugged me about it is when caring about it comes from people who talk about wrestling openly and with the acknowledgment that it's fake all the time -- if most of your discussion of wrestling is about booking or match quality, your disbelief has not been suspended in a long time, so what does it matter? I think it would be bad wrestling for a huge guy and a small guy to have a match and not even play up their difference in size when it's right there as something to work with, but I don't think it stretches credibility to do the match in the first place. On a show where Randy Orton has a camera in a cabin or entrance music accompanies run-ins because reasons, credibility is low value currency. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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