Mauro and JBL

[El-P]

In the end, this has nothing to do with Mauro being annoying or not (which wouldn't excuse the hazing anyway). It's about the culture and why it should be exposed.

 

http://www.fightful.com/jbl-and-wwes-culture-hazing-bullying-oral-history

 

Interesting stuff.

[sek69]

Yeah, it shouldn't have to come down to the character of the person being bullied to decide if it's something worth getting upset about. Saying Mauro should have known better than to take pride in someone acknowledging his work because the company he works for has fucked up insecurity issues is some enabling horseshit. You should be able to do a little boasting about your craft without worrying your insane asshole co worker will go batshit crazy on you.

[supersonic]

I sense that within 6 months, Dave will have figuratively beaten the shit out of Layfield, Coachman, and Rosenberg just like what happened to the TNA mentals at the end of 2015, and just like what happened to the WCW mentals in 2001.

 

All this needs is one of the archaic carny cunts or spineless shills to channel Trump and scream FAKE NEWS over this.

[goc]

Yeah, it shouldn't have to come down to the character of the person being bullied to decide if it's something worth getting upset about. Saying Mauro should have known better than to take pride in someone acknowledging his work because the company he works for has fucked up insecurity issues is some enabling horseshit. You should be able to do a little boasting about your craft without worrying your insane asshole co worker will go batshit crazy on you.

How exactly did JBL go "batshit crazy" on him?

[sek69]

 

Yeah, it shouldn't have to come down to the character of the person being bullied to decide if it's something worth getting upset about. Saying Mauro should have known better than to take pride in someone acknowledging his work because the company he works for has fucked up insecurity issues is some enabling horseshit. You should be able to do a little boasting about your craft without worrying your insane asshole co worker will go batshit crazy on you.

How exactly did JBL go "batshit crazy" on him?

 

 

 

He went off on that wannabe ESPN shouty head show on the Network past the point of just being a heel announcer and to the point of being an unprofessional shithead.

[KawadaSmile]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7_CnVv8s78

 

wow, such a shithead, amirite?

[sek69]

I mean, if people really want to take up the cause of JBL as their hill to die on, more power to you I guess.

[KawadaSmile]

The thing is that we all know JBL is a bully, a piece of shit and someone with the mentality of old times. That is out of question.

 

However, based on what we actually have access to, nothing of what he did is exactly out of line - how is any of what he said on BittT any worse than what he says about James Ellsworth? He also gives Ambrose a lot of shit on commentary, and to say that his mini rant on that show was completely out of bounds is quite frankly disingenuous.

 

Besides, Mauro was on twitter mocking JBL for winning the WON awards and Bradshaw ranking almost at the bottom. When JBL mocks Mauro in return, it's a no-no?

 

 

Look - is there the possibility that JBL might've actually bullied and harassed Mauro? Absolutely, he does have a quite extensive record. If that indeed happened, is it available to us currently? Not at all. Based on whatever concrete info we have, it goes more in line with JBL actually playing a heel than him being a real piece of shit to Mauro.

[sek69]

James Ellsworth is a geek character who's sole purpose of existing is to be made fun of. There's probably an entire other discussion that could be had there, but he's *supposed* to be made fun of. Mauro in theory is supposed to be on equal footing with JBL and there's no storyline reason for him to be saying anything about a guy as far as everyone knew at the time was just the lead announcer of SD.

[KawadaSmile]

Neither was there any storyline reason for Mauro to openly mock JBL - which mind you, led into that rant.

 

They bickered on air not unlike Brain and Monsoon did in their time. Otunga also gets made fun of. Is there any storyline reason for that? Not at all. Heel/face dynamics between the broadcasting team always existed, and sometimes even between wrestlers and announcers - Kevin Owens makes fun of Michael for no given reason other than just because.

[sek69]

It just seems the argument you're trying to make is giving JBL the benefit of the doubt that there's zero evidence he deserves to get.

[KawadaSmile]

What I am saying is that nothing we can actually see - the rant, the twitter mockery - is anything other than the usual heel/face dynamic.

 

Of course I wouldn't be surprised if something backstage related actually happened, but I have serious doubt that the rant is what caused Mauro to have a breakdown.

[supersonic]

https://youtu.be/N7_CnVv8s78

 

Doesn't sound like a shit-stirring, bent-out-of-shape, hateful tirade whatsoever.

[El-P]

It's been known for a good 15 years that JBL is a bully, a gutless coward (aka, a bully, as you can say it that way too) and a corporate kiss-ass who does Vince's dirty job. It's not just Mauro. Searching for excuses for JBL at this point is both pathetic and missing the point.

 

They bickered on air not unlike Brain and Monsoon did in their time.

 

Gorilla Monsoon and Bobby Heenan were best friends IRL. And it showed on the air actually.

[stro]

Whatever details emerge to make Mauro look bad, we have to remember that the man is mentally ill and does have a history of bipolar disorder. That's not excusing it or being an apologist for him, but it does explain why excessive "ribbing" and "hazing" - let's call it what it is, bullying - might trigger some of the less-than-pretty and not-so-savory aspects of his condition. Yes, it's inspirational that he overcome all of that to have an amazing career, but not every aspect of his condition, personality, and life is going to be a happy-go-lucky ABC After School Special. It would be unfair to expect that of anyone, much less someone whose mental state is dependent on the imperfect science and changing requirements of medical dosages.

 

BTW, a poster on WC linked to this. It collects all of the JBL bullying stories into one post, formatted as sort of an oral history.

 

http://www.fightful.com/jbl-and-wwes-culture-hazing-bullying-oral-history

 

I'm coming at this from an angle of someone who has dealt with severe clinical depression for 20 years, and as a person who has 2 family members that are bipolar. These kiddie gloves comments are annoying at best, insulting at worst. That's more stigmatizing than anything.

[C.S.]

My post was not meant to be insulting or stigmatizing, stro. I just meant, if there's a story of Mauro having a meltdown or whatever Dave "I know more but I can't tell you" Meltzer is implying, there are underlying causes for it. In no way did I mean that Mauro's condition automatically gives him a free pass and excuses every little thing away - kiddie gloves, as you say. But it is more complex in his case. I don't think it's inaccurate to say that.

[Loss]

JBL is yet another person in WWE taking heat for doing what he's told. He deserves blame for his actions ultimately, but Vince McMahon should be the one getting the lion's share of the criticism.

[stro]

My post was not meant to be insulting or stigmatizing, stro. I just meant, if there's a story of Mauro having a meltdown or whatever Dave "I know more but I can't tell you" Meltzer is implying, there are underlying causes for it. In no way did I mean that Mauro's condition automatically gives him a free pass and excuses every little thing away - kiddie gloves, as you say. But it is more complex in his case. I don't think it's inaccurate to say that.

 

Mauro is a dude able to be working for what, 4 different corporations at once, in an unprecedented position as being lead announcer for wrestling (in a company that doesn't allow people to do outside work), MMA, boxing, and sometimes kickboxing all at once, in addition to anchoring a MMA TV show and doing a podcast. To call him "mentally ill" is to both downplay what he's been doing for 20 years and overplay his mental health issues.

[Bix]

 

My post was not meant to be insulting or stigmatizing, stro. I just meant, if there's a story of Mauro having a meltdown or whatever Dave "I know more but I can't tell you" Meltzer is implying, there are underlying causes for it. In no way did I mean that Mauro's condition automatically gives him a free pass and excuses every little thing away - kiddie gloves, as you say. But it is more complex in his case. I don't think it's inaccurate to say that.

 

Mauro is a dude able to be working for what, 4 different corporations at once, in an unprecedented position as being lead announcer for wrestling (in a company that doesn't allow people to do outside work), MMA, boxing, and sometimes kickboxing all at once, in addition to anchoring a MMA TV show and doing a podcast. To call him "mentally ill" is to both downplay what he's been doing for 20 years and overplay his mental health issues.

 

 

FWIW, lately, Mauro had mostly just been doing WWE and boxing as of late. Inside MMA was cancelled, until he got the Rizin gig I don't think he had done any MMA PBP since his last Invicta card over 2 years ago, and even if he's still under Glory contract (I forget if he is or isn't), he effectively stopped being their announcer a while ago because the cards usually ran the same weekend as another employer (usually Showtime) who was running a show and had higher priority position on his dates.

[Parties]

"You're either this or that" arguments are oversimplified: there are shades of gray in where folks land on the issue and matters like it. But we do seem to be at a moment in American life where two pervasive mindsets have emerged.

 

In the first are those making the argument that we've become excessively touchy-feely, apologetic, weak-willed, and remorseful: with it comes an idea that success is a zero sum game - inherently competitive and toward survival-of-the-fittest - and that toughening people up through punishment and domineering authority is beneficial to all. JBL (and those in power who utilize him) seems to fall into this camp: consider his repeated mentions of hazing as a cycle that he endured, and that others should endure in order to validate his past hardship. He repeatedly prioritizes "the business" over select colleagues in said business, because he deems them undeserving of its greatness.

 

There is then a counter-argument which suggests that such regimes are not only cruel, but ineffective. That the outcome is only more hostility, more resentment, more division. That such mindsets only perpetuate harmful, unnecessary roles of despots, groveling apparatchiks, and angry, humiliated dupes. Such thinking might suggest that in the case of Vince/HHH/WWE, their urge to intimidate and control everyone in the organization ultimately turns off customers (or makes them less inclined to actively follow the product), dissuades employees, and costs ownership money.

 

We all know who's in power in WWE, and how they behave in order to (in their own minds) preserve and enhance that power: whether you find that exacting hierarchy justifiable (simply inevitable human nature, even) - or instead as something that can and should change - depends on your own mindset, likely formed long ago and apart from this story.

[C.S.]

Mauro is a dude able to be working for what, 4 different corporations at once, in an unprecedented position as being lead announcer for wrestling (in a company that doesn't allow people to do outside work), MMA, boxing, and sometimes kickboxing all at once, in addition to anchoring a MMA TV show and doing a podcast. To call him "mentally ill" is to both downplay what he's been doing for 20 years and overplay his mental health issues.

100% agreed about what Mauro has accomplished.

 

But I really think you're grasping at straws by taking offense to the way I worded it, when Mauro himself refers to it as a mental illness.

 

“I think mental health issues have to be more and more prominent; that’s who I am,” Ranallo told Sherdog.com. “I know there is a stigma, and we’re still not comfortable talking about it in our society. You even asked me if I was OK talking about it for this story. I’ve been very open about this for many, many years. I firmly believe that’s who I am and we’re still not comfortable with talking about it in society, but I want to be an advocate. I want to make it easier for people to talk about. I hope that one day we’re still alive when people don’t have to ask and there is no stigma attached to mental illness.”

 

More similar quotes here: http://www.sherdog.com/news/articles/Mauro-Ranallo-Battling-a-Stigma-95907

[stro]

I'm not offended. I'm rolling my eyes. The reason there's still a stigma on mental illness is because of conversations that go like "Well, he's mentally ill, so you don't know how he'll react" and treat someone like they're unpredictable wild cards because they can't behave or control themselves like a person without mental health issues.

 

There's a difference between mentally ill and living with a mental illness/health issue.

[rzombie1988]

JBL has a long history of bullying and other negative behaviors. He doesn't get the benefit of the doubt here and I have no doubt in another year or so, we'll be hearing about his next incident.

[Phil Schneider]

Good point! Narcissistic bullies with long admitted histories of touching people inappropriately have no place in the hallowed halls of wrestling. Good for you for taking a stand!!

[stro]

I just want to point out that whatever happens now, it's hard to feel bad for Mauro since as soon as he got back to social media and calling MMA, he started throwing passive aggressive barbs at WWE and JBL, just trying to stir shit up.