Superstar Sleeze Posted January 7, 2018 Report Share Posted January 7, 2018 My parents were pretty excited about Jericho vs Omega. More excited than me honestly. Life is crazy. I saw some reviews here make it out to be a classic. My mom didn't care for it. My Dad liked it the most. He liked the brutality. I thought it was way tooooooooooooooooooo loooooooooooooooong. Brawls shouldn't be that long. A very good match that could been great if they went only 10-15 minutes instead of 35 MINUTES! Yes the best Jericho match since 2009, but anyone who thinks it is his best needs to watch the Michaels 2008 series and Mysterio 2009 series before making those claims. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted January 7, 2018 Report Share Posted January 7, 2018 The amount of people that asked me about Omega/Jericho was crazy to me. Like 3-4 people. Also what a world we live in where I kind of want to see Cody wrestle again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eduardo Posted January 7, 2018 Report Share Posted January 7, 2018 Re: Jericho-Omega's place within Jericho's career. I really disliked a lot of the Jericho-Punk feud at the time, and thought the trash talk that was conveniently picked up by the mic and camera during the WM match was cringeworthy and bad. I thought they were a bad match up for one another, and both guys did better when paired up with Rey Mysterio and Jeff Hardy. I remember reading a lot of mixed reactions during the Jericho-Michaels feud, but I did think some of it was great. But there was a lot of valid criticisms out there regarding those matches. The Jericho-Mysterio stuff was/is pretty great, probably the best matches Jericho's been involved in, thanks to Mysterio who at the time had a legitimate case for best in the world. The feud with Jericho/Christian-Booker/Goldust is something I remember being really good too, the highlight of that era of RAW episodes, and something that I'd rather watch than some of Jericho's more famous matches. There was a period in the late 2000s where Jericho had good work with MVP, of all people, and Dave Batista too. I've watched everything Jericho's been involved in, most of it in real time, and I don't see any issue with calling Jericho-Omega the best match of his career or one of the best matches of his career. With the exception of the pair of matches against Mysterio in 2009, Jericho-Omega is within the same range as the underrated Fall Brawl 1997 match with Eddy Guerrero and the Jericho/Benoit-HHH/Austin match. Jericho-Omega was pretty great, and like Jericho/Benoit-HHH/Austin, it was a match that was helped out a lot by the circumstances and context surrounding it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmartMark15 Posted January 7, 2018 Report Share Posted January 7, 2018 I certainly thought that it was Jericho's best singles performance from what I've seen in his career. For greatest match, that has to go to the match vs HBK at Bash 08. But that was far more a Shawn match than a Jericho one. This was the first time I felt like Jericho took the lead and by far ran away with the better performance in a match. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zep81 Posted January 7, 2018 Report Share Posted January 7, 2018 I haven't seen it yet, but I'd say it has to beat: HHH last man standing (Fully Loaded 2000) Benoit ladder match (Royal Rumble 2001) HHH quad tear tag (RAW 5/01) TLC III (Smackdown 5/01) Shawn Michaels ladder match (No Mercy 10/08) The Rey series in '09 I'll add Punk/Y2j from WM XXVIII, one of the most underrated matches ever imo. The Extreme Rules rematch might have been better, but I need to rewatch both again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordi Posted January 7, 2018 Report Share Posted January 7, 2018 I think it's more than reasonable to argue that WK12 was Jericho's best individual performance ever That is different from saying it was his best match. I also think WK12 gave us Cody's best performance ever and maybe Hirooki Goto's best individual performance as well. It's pretty hard (maybe impossible??) to think of another big card that had three all-time individual performances in three separate matches. That's pretty impressive. Of course, we also got one of the worst Tanahashi performances I have ever seen, so it's not all gravy... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted January 7, 2018 Report Share Posted January 7, 2018 The fact people are ignoring Omega all together to concentrate on Jericho speaks loudly of how great his (I mean Omega's) performance actually is. Also, I find it quite funny nobody mentions Jericho loudly calling spots on the corner, something he was regularly blasted for in WWE. Don't get me wrong, I think it's one of Jericho's best match (especially considering he's 47), but ignoring the Omega part of it is quite short-sighted. Tanahashi's really banged up and had a dull-ass opponent. All things considered, he made the best out of what he had to work with. Good point on Goto & Cody.And really, that main event, seriously... I totally see this as a classic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted January 7, 2018 Report Share Posted January 7, 2018 For me, I kind of glossed over Omega because I expect him to be good on the big stage where I kind of thought Jericho sucked for the last 5-6 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordi Posted January 7, 2018 Report Share Posted January 7, 2018 Are people really discounting Kenny? I think maybe it's just that we expect that level of performance out o Omega in '17 but we didn't expect it out of Jericho... so we're talking about Lionheart more than Young Master Togo. (EDIT: Just like Mad Dog said) For the record: I was really impressed by Omega's selling of the cumulative damage in this match, and pleased to see that was able to wrestle a compelling match without a go-go-go-go-faster-faster-faster pace. I thought he adjusted to his opponent and to the stip really well. True about Tanahashi. His performance is excusable under the circumstances... but it was fairly bad, nonetheless. I'll have to give the M.E. a re-watch. I was pretty burned out by the time it got started. 5+ hours of wrestling is a lot in one sitting, even for a guy like me. I enjoyed it, but all of the mark-out energy I had in me that night got spent on Ishii and Fale's segment, Cody vs Ibushi, Misu vs Goto, Scurll's entrance and some of Takahashi's spots, and Jericho vs Kenny. I didn't even mark out for Okada's entrance or the Camera zoom-away spot. I was spent. And I think a lot of people are so bummed out by the finish/booking that it's soured them on the match itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted January 7, 2018 Report Share Posted January 7, 2018 Expectations are a bitch. I watched the event in three days. That probably helps not getting burned out. But despite knowing most of the results, I totally was drawn into Naito vs Okada, to the point where the result didn't bother me. It was just great pro-wrestling from the intros to the post-match. So, is Omega the guy to dethrone Okada before any native can ? Kinda like Steve Williams beat Misawa for the TC before Kawada or Kobashi could ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordi Posted January 7, 2018 Report Share Posted January 7, 2018 Yep. I was actually thinking, "I'll have to track this one down on the internet later" as the Main Event was going on. I wasn't even drinking alcohol or gorging on carbs or anything, it was just wrestling and mark-out overload. On the plus side, I feel like watching Jericho vs Omega as it happened without knowing the finish kept it from feeling too long. I was caught up in it the whole way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoo Enthusiast Posted January 7, 2018 Report Share Posted January 7, 2018 Yeah, Omega being great is pretty much a given for me. That’s built into my saying it is a great match. It goes without saying that Jericho can’t have that match with any opponent. Hell, he even had a weak match with AJ Styles a couple years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jmare007 Posted January 7, 2018 Report Share Posted January 7, 2018 I guess I'm alone in this but I didn't think Omega's performance was stellar at all. Granted, my expectations for him were really high despite me never being a big fan of his but even though I recon his bumping was awesome and helped Jericho's performance reach outstanding levels, I never felt any sympathy for Kenny throughout the beating he took nor thought his comebacks or fire were worth much. Now, I'm not saying he was BAD, but I didn't think it was praise worthy. And regarding the spot calling, Jericho was pretty blatant but Kenny as well. He loudly asked Chris to throw him into the chair in the corner one more time and then the camera stuck with him while you can clearly see him doing the blade job, that whole sequence was pretty funny to me, production fucked up on that one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FMKK Posted January 7, 2018 Report Share Posted January 7, 2018 I think it's more than reasonable to argue that WK12 was Jericho's best individual performance ever That is different from saying it was his best match. I also think WK12 gave us Cody's best performance ever and maybe Hirooki Goto's best individual performance as well. It's pretty hard (maybe impossible??) to think of another big card that had three all-time individual performances in three separate matches. That's pretty impressive. Of course, we also got one of the worst Tanahashi performances I have ever seen, so it's not all gravy... Most people, including myself, would probably have indentified the Shield tags with Goldust as Cody's best performance prior to now. Especially the Battleground 2013 one with Dusty's job on the line. This raises an interesting question as to how one measures a great heel performance against a great babyface performance to determine which is better. I've not got round to watching Cody vs Ibushi yet so I can't say for certain in this case but I think it's interesting to think about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SomethingSavage Posted January 7, 2018 Report Share Posted January 7, 2018 For those (like me) that listened to the English commentary, I'm curious - what do you guys think of Callis' commentary? There are elements to his approach that I enjoy a lot, but there are also things that I find unnecessary & irritating. Addressing the Young Bucks' critics by calling attention to how they're "working a body part" immediately springs to mind. In general, this whole trend of using insider lingo and too many meta references needs to die a thousand deaths and stay buried already. I honestly hate to be another old man on his front porch about it all, but it's one of those things I really have a low tolerance for in the first place - but now that EVERYONE is doing it - well it's almost reached a point that you can't watch ANY current wrestling without running headfirst into it. Basically just have to overlook it. With all that being said, I can't complain too much. I *do* find Callis to be a better fit for New Japan than either Striker or Corino. So at least there's that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoo Enthusiast Posted January 7, 2018 Report Share Posted January 7, 2018 Yeah, I can’t watch the English commentary for those reasons. I don’t want to hear talk of star ratings, calling people marks, etc. If the English commentary is supposed to help draw in a more casual audience, I don’t see how talking about Dave Meltzer helps achieve that end. For instance, a fan like my dad (56 years old), who is mostly a casual fan these days but watches the AXS show for his New Japan exposure. He would have no clue what the hell they are talking about half the time if he watched the NJPW English versions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted January 8, 2018 Report Share Posted January 8, 2018 Still working through this show. The young boy abuse is off the charts for this show. I don't think I've ever seen so many of them just get destroyed during matches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JKWebb Posted January 8, 2018 Report Share Posted January 8, 2018 This is a little off topic, but I finally got the fire stick because of the app and Im really glad I did. It seems like the app is more user friendly than the website, and easier to navigate... for me anyway. To add to some other comments... dont forget about the Punk/Jericho match from Payback too (I think in Chicago)... I remember that being really great. I still think the ladder match with Michaels is probably his best match, but its an interesting thought to say its his best personal performance. I loved it. Im going to watch it again soon with the AXS commentary and see where it lands for me. I really enjoyed every match on the card outside of the YBs match and the Jay White math felt bland to me. I usually am not the hugest fan of car crash matches, but I thought the 4-way was a blast. Up and down a really solid and very fun show. Oh yeah... and i may be switching back to Japanese commentary too when watching live... the star rating stuff really takes me out of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted January 8, 2018 Report Share Posted January 8, 2018 Damn that Goto/Suzuki match fucking rocked. I'm usually lukewarm to Goto but he upped his game for this one. Suzuki is such a terrifying psychopath. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted January 8, 2018 Report Share Posted January 8, 2018 Funny thing is, White actually did more for himself the night after at New Year Dash than his big opportunity in the dome. There's some potential there for sure. Well, Butterface (that's a tribute to Tim Horner, who was about as charismatic and good looking as Jay White) doing a re-actment of a 20 years old angle in DDP fooling the nWo, except with a Bullet Club that looks like the B-Team at best (I guess Elite is the Wolfpack, the only three who matter) and without being over one bit to begin with, isn't exactly setting the world on fire with me. I still don't see shit in this guy. But hey, Johnny Ace made a good career in Japan, so who knows ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boss Rock Posted January 9, 2018 Report Share Posted January 9, 2018 White's definitely been off to a rough start, but he's still young and I've seen him in better stuff. So I'm still hopeful he can turn it around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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