Wrestlers who are BOTH Overrated and Underrated

[Loss]

Yeah, Dave talks about how people in WWE in the 2000s would contact him and say Ric Flair was still the best worker in the company. Which is odd because I didn't realize Mark Madden worked there.

[ohtani's jacket]

I supppse any polarizing figure fits the bill here. Manami Toyota, Kurt Angle, Tanahashi, Cena, Shawn Michaels, Kenta Kobashi.

 

It seems like Fujiwara, Kandori and Taue are suffering a bit of backlash from folks who dont feel as though they live up to the revisionist hype or that the praise for them has gone too far in the opposite direction. Takada may be the same but I feel criticism of him has died down in recent years.

[SPS]

On the other side of the coin to Tiger Mask how about Dynamite Kid who from some got similar criticism for his work in the Tiger Mask era and the like(also his personal life aside from this discussion) while he is still heavily praised by Bret,Terry Funk and Harley Race among others.

 

Also I'll throw in Eddie Guerrero who by some is now hailed as the greatest of all time where others say he was nowhere close but still great.

[SPS]

Oh and also Terry Gordy is another debated one that even has The Gordy List named after him after all.

[Johnny Sorrow]

Eddie has a case for Greatest of all time because he became great at everything. He was a complete performer, which is amazingly rare. He couldn't be touched at the time he passed.

I personally don't see any over rated argument.

[Mrzfn]

Eddie has a case for Greatest of all time because he became great at everything. He was a complete performer, which is amazingly rare. He couldn't be touched at the time he passed.

I personally don't see any over rated argument.

 

The only time I see Eddie overrated is when I see claims that he was an all time great all through the 90s and early 00s, when in reality he had plenty of periods of just being good with flashes of greatness.

[Matt D]

 

Eddie has a case for Greatest of all time because he became great at everything. He was a complete performer, which is amazingly rare. He couldn't be touched at the time he passed.

I personally don't see any over rated argument.

 

The only time I see Eddie overrated is when I see claims that he was an all time great all through the 90s and early 00s, when in reality he had plenty of periods of just being good with flashes of greatness.

 

 

I'd be vaguely interested in a "Greatest Peak Ever" with that period being an X month period (maybe even 1 year).

[Eduardo]

When I saw this topic, I thought of Negro Navarro, who I like a lot but who I wish we had more criticisms of him.

 

So he is very underrated by so many that don't go out of their way to watch lucha libre, or know of lucha libre. But I feel that he's overrated in the sense that you rarely see anything critical written about his matches, specifically the matches when he just doesn't care about his opponent. Also if we want to compare him to his peers and age group, he is clearly behind Black Terry and Solar, who I feel are far more complete workers and more engaged with their audience and their opponents.

[DR Ackermann]

When I saw this topic, I thought of Negro Navarro, who I like a lot but who I wish we had more criticisms of him.

 

So he is very underrated by so many that don't go out of their way to watch lucha libre, or know of lucha libre. But I feel that he's overrated in the sense that you rarely see anything critical written about his matches, specifically the matches when he just doesn't care about his opponent. Also if we want to compare him to his peers and age group, he is clearly behind Black Terry and Solar, who I feel are far more complete workers and more engaged with their audience and their opponents.

I'm definitely guilty of overrating Navarro for the GWE. I've seen a fair amount of boring matches from him that I didn't weigh near as heavily as his best stuff. I equated him with Black Terry too much. I think he finished in my top 30 but maybe he shouldn't have even been in my top 50.

[ohtani's jacket]

When I saw this topic, I thought of Negro Navarro, who I like a lot but who I wish we had more criticisms of him.

 

So he is very underrated by so many that don't go out of their way to watch lucha libre, or know of lucha libre. But I feel that he's overrated in the sense that you rarely see anything critical written about his matches, specifically the matches when he just doesn't care about his opponent. Also if we want to compare him to his peers and age group, he is clearly behind Black Terry and Solar, who I feel are far more complete workers and more engaged with their audience and their opponents.

 

It's been a long time since i watched these guys. Have they produced anything good in the past few years?

[Mrzfn]

 

When I saw this topic, I thought of Negro Navarro, who I like a lot but who I wish we had more criticisms of him.

 

So he is very underrated by so many that don't go out of their way to watch lucha libre, or know of lucha libre. But I feel that he's overrated in the sense that you rarely see anything critical written about his matches, specifically the matches when he just doesn't care about his opponent. Also if we want to compare him to his peers and age group, he is clearly behind Black Terry and Solar, who I feel are far more complete workers and more engaged with their audience and their opponents.

 

It's been a long time since i watched these guys. Have they produced anything good in the past few years?

 

 

I really liked Hechicero & Virus vs. Black Terry & Negro Navarro from last year, and the singles match Navarro had with Sabre too, though I think that one had mixed reviews from others.

[shodate]

sorry if this really answer

 

and i know the film vs wrestling idea is not 100% 1 for one but stay with me on this

 

 

both over and underrated are a case of perspective and based on how one person or particular set views wrestling people like me who love the maestro lucha style will call negro terry and people like the, underrated and people who think Lucha is only that AAA style that was used i in 1990's wcw cruiser division will hate it in think wrestling is one of the most polarized art from there is.

 

Film people who know film wil say Kane is the best film ever made disaper it being no were close to being the bigg that movie is helf up as est drawing one based on how people who view wrestling under the avatar principal the biggest draw is this best work is myopic views to hold alot of the time people like me go via the Kane principal movie held up because of its innovations so the most innovative is the best people like arthouse films so thye like a lot of the odd studff both us and Japanese indies do

 

some sople like Michael Bay so the like High spot high stopfest matches

 

some people like unflinching realistic and technical masterpieces so they like Shootstyle and realism ie execution and techniqueophiles people

of my mindset value innovation and realism above all things. innovative workers will alot of the time seam underrated this the reasin that people like Murakami are underrated is murakami's cause he also disliked case his linked with the dark times of Inokisim in New Japan based on hes pure worker on based on the conditions he found himself in je was a very good worker

 

 

 

 

 

so underrated and overrated depends on what view you hold on the art form as a whole

[Matt D]

Navarro can be so bombastic/over the top that he can sometime take away from a match. It's more of a Dick Murdoch thing than a Dr. Wagner Jr. thing, but even that's not entirely right. It is in his mastery of being able to take over a match and sort of infect it with what he wants, but what he wasn't isn't the sort of comedy Murdoch would bring. It's endearing but occasionally unfortunate. Sometimes I wonder if it's because he's self-conscious due to his age.

[Loss]

I think Kevin Owens falls into this category too. He's not as amazing as his biggest fans make him out to be, but I don't find myself as bored by his matches as many people do here.

[Johnny Sorrow]

 

 

 

 

Eddie has a case for Greatest of all time because he became great at everything. He was a complete performer, which is amazingly rare. He couldn't be touched at the time he passed.

I personally don't see any over rated argument.

The only time I see Eddie overrated is when I see claims that he was an all time great all through the 90s and early 00s, when in reality he had plenty of periods of just being good with flashes of greatness.

I'd be vaguely interested in a "Greatest Peak Ever" with that period being an X month period (maybe even 1 year).

I kinda feel like if someone does peak and becomes as great as Eddie did, that's enough to be called one of the greatest of all time.

[shodate]

Eddie is overrated by a lot of people just like rey is

[iamthedoctor]

 

 

Would Ric Flair have a case of both of these categories?

 

I know some fans find him over but I think some matches hes had are quite underrated. I can't think of any off the top of my head but im sure if you delved into his career there would be a few.

 

He would for underrated but I don't think it's possible to overrate him.

 

 

Watch this:

 

In the 00s, he was still better than 3/4ths of the WWE roster!

 

 

 

Well yeah and considering he's supposed to be Hunter's best friend it made no sense why they didn't give him the World Title when they had that match and the whole roster came down after the show.

 

I mean they were willing to give Hulk the belt the other year due to fan reaction so figured in the modern era Ric would have got the belt even if just for that night.

 

[fxnj]

Navarro can be so bombastic/over the top that he can sometime take away from a match. It's more of a Dick Murdoch thing than a Dr. Wagner Jr. thing, but even that's not entirely right. It is in his mastery of being able to take over a match and sort of infect it with what he wants, but what he wasn't isn't the sort of comedy Murdoch would bring. It's endearing but occasionally unfortunate. Sometimes I wonder if it's because he's self-conscious due to his age.

Could you name some specific examples from matches? I've seen a fair amount and never really thought he was comparable to Murdoch.

[Matt D]

 

Navarro can be so bombastic/over the top that he can sometime take away from a match. It's more of a Dick Murdoch thing than a Dr. Wagner Jr. thing, but even that's not entirely right. It is in his mastery of being able to take over a match and sort of infect it with what he wants, but what he wasn't isn't the sort of comedy Murdoch would bring. It's endearing but occasionally unfortunate. Sometimes I wonder if it's because he's self-conscious due to his age.

Could you name some specific examples from matches? I've seen a fair amount and never really thought he was comparable to Murdoch.

 

Short answer: Not really, but I'll try to if you give me some time.

 

I have one example but it's very minor.

 

 

At around the 24:30 mark, he's matched with Black Terry and he sprinkles in some stuff that's more style than substance. It's very cool and very fun, just little bits of misdirection, but for the point of the match that they were at, and the stakes, and what came before, it took me out of things just a little bit. I feel like there are more blatant examples, however. Maybe this will give you a sense of what I mean though?

[Boss Rock]

I think Kevin Owens falls into this category too. He's not as amazing as his biggest fans make him out to be, but I don't find myself as bored by his matches as many people do here.

 

Owens is a great call. I do think a good chunk of his stint in WWE has been lazy and uninspired, but he's also not exactly turning in clunkers every single time either. Dude just gets in his own way too often with the chinlocks and trying to be "cute". But he's also had some legitimately really good stuff sprinkled here and there.

[Mad Dog]

I think Owens is an easy answer. The things that make him great also become lazy and awful crutches when he's phoning it in. Chinlock city can be brilliant in one match and eye rolling in another one.

[Loss]

The chinlocks don't bother me because he's usually talking trash and other stuff while he's applying it, unlike Orton, who just uses it to kill time when he's a heel.

[shodate]

The chinlocks don't bother me because he's usually talking trash and other stuff while he's applying it, unlike Orton, who just uses it to kill time when he's a heel.

Orton is boring i though was the only one

[Mad Dog]

My problem is he'll whip it out in a match where it feels out of place. One of the AJ matches over the summer comes to mind. He pulled it out in the worst place possible. But I agree, he's usually talking trash and he's usually doing it to piss off the crowd. I like that Owens isn't afraid to be hated.

[superkix]

Tomohiro Ishii