sek69 Posted May 31, 2019 Report Share Posted May 31, 2019 Plus he calls Sonny Kiss a "transvestite", which on top on everything else isn't even correct. He's not trying to present as female. I suppose a generous defense would be that he was trying to come up with an analog to exotico type characters for American wrestling that hasn't really existed before, but he ended up sounding like a racist who used the wrong slur for the group he was trying to be racist at. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rovert Posted May 31, 2019 Report Share Posted May 31, 2019 Even if you are the most backward fuddy-duddy you have to acknowledge Sonny is really effective and over. Owns every room he enters. As a "gimmick" he's a very talented wrestler. He's not a quota filler. I would have cut a lot of the battle royal field over him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.S. Posted May 31, 2019 Report Share Posted May 31, 2019 5 minutes ago, rovert said: Even if you are the most backward fuddy-duddy you have to acknowledge Sonny is really effective and over. Owns every room he enters. As a "gimmick" he's a very talented wrestler. He's not a quota filler. I would have cut a lot of the battle royal field over him. Agreed. Sonny Kiss instantly grabbed my attention at the press conference AEW held outside that Vegas hotel by a pool a few months ago. (Forgive my vague description - it's too late and I'm too tired to remember the finer details, but hopefully you all know exactly what I'm referring to.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmartMark15 Posted May 31, 2019 Report Share Posted May 31, 2019 Not sure if this has been put up here yet but one of my favorite takeaways is that the television presentation will focus on the immediate ringside area instead of constantly cutting to backstage segments. That has me pretty excited as a concept. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmartMark15 Posted May 31, 2019 Report Share Posted May 31, 2019 Top post on r/SquaredCircle right now is about AEW handing out free sensory kits to families with children who have special needs. Would anyone know if this was part of the marketing at all, even just mentioned on a brochure for families who might be interested? I did not hear about it until it blew up over on Reddit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rovert Posted May 31, 2019 Report Share Posted May 31, 2019 4 minutes ago, SmartMark15 said: Top post on r/SquaredCircle right now is about AEW handing out free sensory kits to families with children who have special needs. Would anyone know if this was part of the marketing at all, even just mentioned on a brochure for families who might be interested? I did not hear about it until it blew up over on Reddit. In contrast, WWE didn't tell the state of New Jersey how long Wrestlemania would run this year. So their most loyal and high paying fans after the show were left in the rain for hours without sufficient levels of public transport to service them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.S. Posted May 31, 2019 Report Share Posted May 31, 2019 2 hours ago, SmartMark15 said: Top post on r/SquaredCircle right now is about AEW handing out free sensory kits to families with children who have special needs. Would anyone know if this was part of the marketing at all, even just mentioned on a brochure for families who might be interested? I did not hear about it until it blew up over on Reddit. Not sure if it was part of the marketing, but I do remember it being announced a few months ago that AEW would be the first wrestling organization to be sensory inclusive. I want to say it was a Brandi announcement or tweet but I’m not sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JNLister Posted May 31, 2019 Report Share Posted May 31, 2019 8 hours ago, flyonthewall2983 said: I heard that Meltzer just said more than 10 WWE employees now want to leave, including some names that would shock everyone. He actually said there's probably fewer than 10 who haven't explored other options. That's not the same as "want to leave". Realistically, unless you're on main event money or personally committed to the idea of WWE above all else, why wouldn't you keep your options open? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted May 31, 2019 Report Share Posted May 31, 2019 2 hours ago, C.S. said: Not sure if it was part of the marketing, but I do remember it being announced a few months ago that AEW would be the first wrestling organization to be sensory inclusive. I want to say it was a Brandi announcement or tweet but I’m not sure. It was. She's been presenting sensory inclusive room on Road to Double or Nothing. 4 hours ago, rovert said: Even if you are the most backward fuddy-duddy you have to acknowledge Sonny is really effective and over. Owns every room he enters. As a "gimmick" he's a very talented wrestler. Yeah, to me Sonny Kiss is exactly the guy you want to grab a younger (and non-bigotted) audience. He got over instantly in LU and was a lot of fun there. He can work the flashy underdog character and be a star at it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blehschmidt Posted May 31, 2019 Report Share Posted May 31, 2019 Haven't seen Double or Nothing, and I haven't listened to the Cornette podcast. But knowing how stuck in the business Jim is, are there chances that Jim made the comments he made thinking that this was just some dude playing an Adrian Adonis gimmick and had no idea that the guy actually lives this lifestyle? Again, not trying to defend, genuinely don't know, just curious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NintendoLogic Posted May 31, 2019 Report Share Posted May 31, 2019 Sorry, but I can't see a full-blown exotico getting over in America beyond a niche audience. More importantly, I see it as a huge turnoff to a significant portion of the fanbase, particularly the lapsed fans AEW is aiming for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Thread Killer Posted May 31, 2019 Report Share Posted May 31, 2019 Over the past few days I finally saw the entire AEW PPV, and just listened to Cornette's review. I don't always agree with Cornette regarding a lot of things, but in my opinion about 90% of his criticisms were dead-on. People can blow as many gaskets as they want regarding Cornette and things he has said in the past, but if you only read isolated statements from his review and didn't listen to the actual show then you're not getting the full picture and you need to shut the fuck up and stop looking for things to get offended over. For example, people have been focusing on the fact that he used the word "transvestite" when talking about Sonny Kiss therefore he's homophobic and transphobic and islamophobic and arachnaphobic and quadrophobic and he's not nearly diverse or inclusive or progressive enough and derp derp derp. Listen to his review. He reviews the Women's Fatal Four Way. He talks quite positively about Nyla Rose and never once even references the fact that she is transgender. Hell, his biggest complaint is that Awesome Kong shouldn't have been debuted in this match because it took away from making Rose look like a destroyer. If he was so transphobic, you'd think Nyla Rose would have been the perfect opportunity for him to expose himself for being so ignorant - except he focused all of his criticisms of this match on totally legitimate (and accurate, might I add) wrestling related concerns. In fact, if you went by just this review you wouldn't even know Nyla Rose was transgender because he doesn't mention it and doesn't even allude to it. Look, I believe in God. Jim Cornette is not only an atheist, he is absolutely fanatical about that fact. He regularly insults, berates, mocks and generally questions the intelligence of anybody who believes in God or is a member of any organized religion. I consider myself to be politically Conservative (or at least Libertarian.) He hates Conservative people are will often rant about them endlessly on his podcast. Do I agree with him? Nope, not one little bit. Does what he says insult or offend me at times? Nope. At worst, it annoys me. Just as he thinks people who share my opinions are ignorant, I think his opinion is ignorant. That doesn't automatically invalidate his opinion about other things - especially those things about which he is clearly an expert. When I listen to his show I just put on my big boy pants and prepare to hear the opinions of somebody with whom I might not always agree. What I don't do is use the fact that he holds opinions I disagree with as a reason to invalidate or ignore his other opinions. Cornette knows Pro-Wrestling. He knows Pro-Wrestling history. Most importantly for this particular argument, he knows Pro-Wrestling television production, and a lot of his criticisms and complaints regarding this show were based on the production, how the show was presented to non-fans or those unfamiliar with AEW, and guess what? Most of them were right. If you listen to his review and you can't see the validity of his criticisms just because he once used the improper gender pro-noun or said something that offended you then you're being just as ignorant as he can be at times Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted May 31, 2019 Report Share Posted May 31, 2019 Like I said. I think he was mostly right and he did like the show. Brian was annoying though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tlk23 Posted May 31, 2019 Report Share Posted May 31, 2019 98,000 buys for All Elite between PPV and Streaming last weekend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Thread Killer Posted May 31, 2019 Report Share Posted May 31, 2019 8 minutes ago, Mad Dog said: Like I said. I think he was mostly right and he did like the show. Brian was annoying though. He was. Brian Last can also be very smug and dismissive and obnoxious. I can't stand people reviewing something when they either haven't seen it or went into watching it already knowing what their opinion was going to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted May 31, 2019 Report Share Posted May 31, 2019 36 minutes ago, The Thread Killer said: He was. Brian Last can also be very smug and dismissive and obnoxious. I can't stand people reviewing something when they either haven't seen it or went into watching it already knowing what their opinion was going to be. What pissed me off was him bashing the Cody and Dustin hug. He was critical of an aspect that they straight up said in the build wasn't there. That match was "we love each other but we're going to beat the fuck out of each other for these specific issues." And I would hate to see what a thumbs up show looks like if you are giving that a thumbs in the middle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffey Posted May 31, 2019 Report Share Posted May 31, 2019 I genuinely didn't know what Cornette said was "bad" until reading this thread. I'm still pretty confused about what people (more specifically C.S.) are going off on, truthfully. He used the wrong terminology? I grew up watching Rocky Horror. Transvestite wasn't exactly a derogatory term in that movie. It was just Tim Curry dressed up in women's clothing. Which is very similar to what Sonny Kiss is doing. Is it really that far-fetched? I think people are just overreacting, like always. This is a non-story that nobodies on Twitter are trying to make into a story. It also doesn't have anything to do with liking Cornette or not based on shit he's done in wrestling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NintendoLogic Posted May 31, 2019 Report Share Posted May 31, 2019 34 minutes ago, Mad Dog said: What pissed me off was him bashing the Cody and Dustin hug. He was critical of an aspect that they straight up said in the build wasn't there. That match was "we love each other but we're going to beat the fuck out of each other for these specific issues." And I would hate to see what a thumbs up show looks like if you are giving that a thumbs in the middle. But Cody did plenty of things (stalling, an arrogant cartwheel, valet interference) that had nothing to do with settling a score and were solely for cheap heat. I guess can't really complain too much about the post-match since it clearly worked for the audience, but I definitely felt a disconnect between it and the way the match was worked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ragemaster Posted May 31, 2019 Report Share Posted May 31, 2019 "He talks quite positively about Nyla Rose and never once even references the fact that she is transgender." Does Jim Cornette know Nyla Rose is transgender? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted May 31, 2019 Report Share Posted May 31, 2019 4 hours ago, NintendoLogic said: Sorry, but I can't see a full-blown exotico getting over in America beyond a niche audience. More importantly, I see it as a huge turnoff to a significant portion of the fanbase, particularly the lapsed fans AEW is aiming for. If some people are turned off by Sonny Kiss, then I'd think AEW don't want them as their fanbase. The true challenge is getting a younger, more diverse audience, not the old lapsed fans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.S. Posted May 31, 2019 Report Share Posted May 31, 2019 4 hours ago, The Thread Killer said: Cornette knows Pro-Wrestling. He knows Pro-Wrestling history. Most importantly for this particular argument, he knows Pro-Wrestling television production, and a lot of his criticisms and complaints regarding this show were based on the production, how the show was presented to non-fans or those unfamiliar with AEW, and guess what? Most of them were right. If you listen to his review and you can't see the validity of his criticisms just because he once used the improper gender pro-noun or said something that offended you then you're being just as ignorant as he can be at times Except, you're arguing about something that no one is actually disagreeing with you on. No one ever said that Corntte's expertise about wrestling was suddenly invalidated because of his offensive comments. No one here even cares that dislikes Omega, Bucks, etc. (even if they disagree) or that he didn't like certain aspects of Double or Nothing (ditto). None of that is the issue. Had a long post for @Coffey as well, but accidentally hit the back button on my cheap ass mouse that I really need to replace and it got lost. Basically, the gist of it was, I'm sure there were a lot of words and symbols that were fine in your day but are no longer. Words change. Meanings change. Perceptions change. You can argue against that all you want, but it doesn't mean you can willfully put your head in the sand and pretend it isn't so. Like I said earlier, imagine growing up watching and maybe idolizing Cornette, only for him to say things that have been used to discriminate against you in the past. Must be an awful feeling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffey Posted May 31, 2019 Report Share Posted May 31, 2019 28 minutes ago, C.S. said: Had a long post for @Coffey as well, but accidentally hit the back button on my cheap ass mouse that I really need to replace and it got lost. Basically, the gist of it was, I'm sure there were a lot of words and symbols that were fine in your day but are no longer. Words change. Meanings change. Perceptions change. You can argue against that all you want, but it doesn't mean you can willfully put your head in the sand and pretend it isn't so. Like I said earlier, imagine growing up watching and maybe idolizing Cornette, only for him to say things that have been used to discriminate against you in the past. Must be an awful feeling. It's cool. I'm more than willing to admit ignorance to the entire subject. I'm the wrong person to speak on any of it. Truth be told, Cornette is too. I can understand why it would ruffle feathers. I was just surprised at the negative reaction that came out after the podcast because people were really upset & I had just listened to it & thought "wait, what part are they talking about?" While listening that part didn't even make my ears perk up. I noticed more that he was dumping on the preshow as a whole & I remembered doing the same thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted May 31, 2019 Report Share Posted May 31, 2019 To be fair, I remember political rants by Cornette years ago where he would go off on Republicans because they were (amongst other things) against same-sex mariage, so I do think there's a disconnect between what terminology Corny used and his actual feeling on the matter. Corny may be a lot of things, but a bigot I don't think so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NintendoLogic Posted May 31, 2019 Report Share Posted May 31, 2019 2 hours ago, El-P said: If some people are turned off by Sonny Kiss, then I'd think AEW don't want them as their fanbase. The true challenge is getting a younger, more diverse audience, not the old lapsed fans. The thing is, extremely online types tend to vastly overestimate the wokeness of the public at large. Wrestling Twitter is not the real world. If you don't think an effeminate man who wears makeup and performs ass-based comedy spots is going to repel a lot more viewers than he attracts, I don't know what to tell you. Speaking of Twitter, Joey Ryan tweeted that Cornette needs to be cancelled for being homophobic, which led to Brian Last posting screenshots of past Ryan tweets making jokes about rape and pedophilia. It just goes to show that most performative outrage is complete horseshit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted May 31, 2019 Report Share Posted May 31, 2019 22 minutes ago, NintendoLogic said: The thing is, extremely online types tend to vastly overestimate the wokeness of the public at large. Wrestling Twitter is not the real world. If you don't think an effeminate man who wears makeup and performs ass-based comedy spots is going to repel a lot more viewers than he attracts, I don't know what to tell you. Considering my stance on the thing, you should no I have zero awareness of "Wrestling Twitter", nor do I care about it. If american pro-wrestling fans in 2019 can't get behind a guy like Sonny Kiss, fuck them seven ways to Sunday. It would mean they are the dumbest pro-wrestling fans in the world. Joey Ryan going after Corny is kinda funny, though, considering how much Corny has shit on Joey for years now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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