All Elite Wrestling

[sek69]

Yeah unless AEW's audience completely falls off the cliff they'll be in good shape. TNT is getting solid ratings for a decent rate, and and AEW got enough money to let them survive the pandemic with minimal impact to their bottom line. 

That's why it's so annoying to see the smooth brained Twitter takes like "wHo cArEs aBoUt RaTiNgS" considering between TNT/AEW and USA/Fox/WWE TV deal are what is keeping major league level pro wrestling alive in the US.  

[Migs]

On 8/26/2020 at 1:51 AM, sek69 said:

Yeah unless AEW's audience completely falls off the cliff they'll be in good shape. TNT is getting solid ratings for a decent rate, and and AEW got enough money to let them survive the pandemic with minimal impact to their bottom line. 

That's why it's so annoying to see the smooth brained Twitter takes like "wHo cArEs aBoUt RaTiNgS" considering between TNT/AEW and USA/Fox/WWE TV deal are what is keeping major league level pro wrestling alive in the US.  

To be fair, I feel like some of that comes in response to people who are like "[insert promotion here] ratingz are better that means its better" that's also dumb. 

As an AEW fan, ratings matter to the extent they need a certain number to keep TNT happy, because I'd like AEW to continue to exist. Beyond that, I try not to worry too much about them. (And to be fair, on this board, I think that's the opinion of most. We're a bit more nuanced than Twitter.)

[El-P]

John Silver on BTE is a riot. The Dark Order have been stealing the shows for weeks now.

Also, the very last shot of this week's episode is another tease in the long road to Omega becoming the Cleaner again (or maybe something else ?). Yes, I am excited for what's to come.

[WingedEagle]

47 minutes ago, El-P said:

Also, the very last shot of this week's episode is another tease in the long road to Omega becoming the Cleaner again (or maybe something else ?). Yes, I am excited for what's to come.

Never watch the show but heard about the tease in this week's episode and checked this out.  Very much a strong sign of the above and I cannot wait.  Feels like they're ready to pull the trigger son some major angles for the Dynamite season 2 premiere.

[MoS]

Jon Moxley is awesome and I don't get people who don't like him

[Superstar Sleeze]

Jon Moxley is trash and I don't get people who like him.  (I am being serious).

[MoS]

I love almost every post you make about wrestling but you should be squashed on Worldwide for this opinion

[Superstar Sleeze]

Hahaha I am glad you took it well. I do think he has improved as Moxley compared to Ambrose. I do think WWE is a nearly impossible environment to truly thrive in BUT there have been some promos in AEW that really showed WWE was NOT the total problem. There was one promo in a desert where he was making Dean Ambrose-esque shitty jokes. There was another promo in a garage I wanna say in advance of Brian Cage Title Defense where he couldnt make up his damn mind who he is. Is he a reverent Bret Hart babyface champion? Is he a zany Terry Funk champion? Is he a moody, brooding loner champion? I think that's my issue. I dont really know who Jon Moxley is. I dont think he knows who he is either. Part of it is who I am as a person. I just dont connect with the moody, brooding loner types. However, even if I dont connect with it, I can usually tell when that archetype is done well and I dont think he does it well because he will add a dash of Terry Funk or Bret Hart when it was not warranted. I hope that make sense. 

[TheDuke]

I wonder if part of the problem Is that he is trying to be something he is not. He may be trying to portray a character whereas those older wrestlers unless they were a gimmick were being an exaggerated version of themselves.

[El-P]

There's no problem with Mox. He's great. Terrific worker, great promo.

1 hour ago, Superstar Sleeze said:

I just dont connect with the moody, brooding loner types.

There you go, don't search no further. I do and I can totally connect with Moxley. I love the fact he's got a bit of Terry Funk and Bret Hart in him, as they were two of my all-time favourites.

It always amused me the way some people just did not get Raven *at all* for instance. Not on any level (which included the more humorous side of his later on). Maybe you gotta have the same ridiculously high IQ to really enjoy it, I dunno... 

44 minutes ago, TheDuke said:

He may be trying to portray a character whereas those older wrestlers unless they were a gimmick were being an exaggerated version of themselves.

To me that sentence has become an overused cliché lately. It certainly has a part of truth in it (tons of great exemples in the greatest stars like Austin, Flair, Rock, Bruno), but I see it thrown around a lot as some kind of authority argument, usually to criticize contemporary wrestlers or guy who never clicked for whatever reasons. And sometimes, it's just plain wrong, either way you look at it.

Brucie's rant on Nick Aldis for instance, is a total case of not getting it at all. Yeah, he is "cosplaying" the old NWA champion. But he's doing this routine better than anyone since, well, Flair in the 80's. On the other end of the spectrum, the Undertaker is probably the most successful gimmick of all time (and I'm not talking about the MAGA Rollin' Rollin' Rollin' version of it), but I don't think Mark Callaway has anything about him that's about being a living dead who build caskets and buries people alive and doesn't feel pain.

Also, that famous sentence is always convenient but strangely never seem to apply in the multiple cases of  "the guy did not put all his energy into the gimmick that was given to him, that's why it did not work". 

And really, if you listen to Mox in interviews, he's really not that far off the guy he portrays in the ring, so I for one would think that definition actually works pretty decently in this case.

[MoS]

3 hours ago, Superstar Sleeze said:

Hahaha I am glad you took it well. I do think he has improved as Moxley compared to Ambrose. I do think WWE is a nearly impossible environment to truly thrive in BUT there have been some promos in AEW that really showed WWE was NOT the total problem. There was one promo in a desert where he was making Dean Ambrose-esque shitty jokes. There was another promo in a garage I wanna say in advance of Brian Cage Title Defense where he couldnt make up his damn mind who he is. Is he a reverent Bret Hart babyface champion? Is he a zany Terry Funk champion? Is he a moody, brooding loner champion? I think that's my issue. I dont really know who Jon Moxley is. I dont think he knows who he is either. Part of it is who I am as a person. I just dont connect with the moody, brooding loner types. However, even if I dont connect with it, I can usually tell when that archetype is done well and I dont think he does it well because he will add a dash of Terry Funk or Bret Hart when it was not warranted. I hope that make sense. 

It does and I think he definitely suffered from that when he first won the world title when he was not sure exactly how to approach being the world champ. I don't know if the wrestlers' name you took were random or intentional, but it is very salient because Mox grew up a Bret Hart fan and later as a wrestler became a massive Terry Funk mark. But I do think he has found the right balance now especially since the Brian Cage build-up. I am not sure which Cage promo you are referring to but I thought his promo work for building that match was brilliant (as was Taz's) and it was the time I felt he really put it together and figured out what he wanted to be/do as world champ. In my opinion he came across as the better promo and much bigger star in his face off with MJF, and I was not necessarily expecting that. 

[sek69]

Yeah after seeing Mox in several post WWE interviews, I'd wager what we're seeing in AEW is pretty much his actual personality amped up a little. 

[El-P]

John Silver checking Wardlow's ass and dropping a classic Kelis reference is the highlight of my wrestling week already. The of course Brodie has to do the Vince Twitch bit. Dark Order on BTE are downright funny as fuck.

[El-P]

I can't think of a more 2020 bit than the AEW people playing real life Among Us on BTE.

[joeg]

Something I haven't understood about AEW from day 1. They run every Wednesday and 1 Saturday every 4 months... so how is it that they don't use guys under contract to ROH, MLW, Impact, NWA, etc? MJF and Thunder Rosa are the only exception of a workers under contract somewhere else that they've used. It doesn't make sense seeing as how there would never be a scheduling conflict. It leaves them filling out their mid card and bottom of the card with guys who work the bottom barrel indies instead of the top indies. It just doesn't make sense to me. 

[El-P]

1 hour ago, joeg said:

Something I haven't understood about AEW from day 1. They run every Wednesday and 1 Saturday every 4 months... so how is it that they don't use guys under contract to ROH, MLW, Impact, NWA, etc? 

Why would they ? They are supposed to be a mainstream alternative, not a super-indy using people from small promotions. They have to be their own brand, using tons of people that also appear in smaller promotions would make them look like total second rate.

MJF was basically transitioning, Thunder Rosa is on AEW TV but NWA doesn't even *exist* as a promotion these days anyway. And Pillman was used as a jobber on Dark before getting a few wins as a tag worker. 

I would be all for The North showing up to challenge the Young Bucks though.

(and if we're being technical, Swoggle is currently working IMPACT and Konnan MLW, so this week's episode had workers from 3 other promotions if you also consider Rosa  )

[joeg]

But they do look totally second rate with some of the guys on their roster. They look incredibly indie when they got 20 guys on their active roster not good enough to land in one of the indies that has TV. So why not use guys who work in the top indies that have TV? why only use guys who work lower level indies. Would they look more indie if guys like Rush, Jacob Fatu, Davey Smith Jr., Briscoe Brothers, Rhino, Joe Doering, Sami Callihan, LA Park, King Mo, Tom Lawlor, Brian Pillman Jr, Dragon Lee, Bandido, Good Brothers, Ken Shamrock, Nick Aldis, etc were filling out the roster as opposed to guys like Private Party, Best Friends, Kip Sabian, Super Smash Bros, Hybrid2, Luther, Marko Stunt, Joey Janela, etc, etc..... I think their product would look far less indie and far more main stream and far more professional is my point so why don't they use some of those guys, its not like they are doing anything on Wednesday's is point.

 

[SirEdger]

All of the above mentioned  picks would be solid additions to the AEW roster IMO. It might be a case of Cody and the gang trying to find their own "gems" and work with them rather than do a mix of those with established names like a Sami Callihan, like a Rhino or a Nick Aldis.

[C.S.]

1 minute ago, SirEdger said:

All of the above mentioned  picks would be solid additions to the AEW roster IMO. It might be a case of Cody and the gang trying to find their own "gems" and work with them rather than do a mix of those with established names like a Sami Callihan, like a Rhino or a Nick Aldis.

Also, those "gems" likely come a lot cheaper than Rhino would. 

2-3 "gems" probably cost the same as 1 Rhino, so that's easy math and an even easier decision.

[El-P]

17 minutes ago, joeg said:

But they look incredibly indie when they got 20 guys on their active roster not good enough to land in one of the indies that has TV.

..... That's total backward thinking. These people, who are *signed* by AEW, are by default more mainstream than anyone on IMPACT or ROH. 

17 minutes ago, joeg said:

Would they look more indie if guys like Rush, Jacob Fatu, Davey Smith Jr., Briscoe Brothers, Rhino, Joe Doering, Sami Callihan, LA Park, King Mo, Tom Lawlor, Brian Pillman Jr, Dragon Lee, Bandido, Good Brothers, Ken Shamrock, Nick Aldis, etc were filling out the roster as opposed to guys like Private Party, Best Friends, Kip Sabian, Super Smash Bros, Hybrid2, Luther, Marko Stunt, Joey Janela, etc, etc.....

Private Party, Best Friends, Kip Sabian, Super Smash Bros, Hybrid2, Luther, Marko Stunt, Joey Janela and co have been on AEW on TNT for a year now. The idea that they are "indy" is ridiculous. They are the AEW roster that has been *signed* and *featured* on TNT, which is more big time by essence than appearing on ROH or IMPACT or, yikes, MLW.

Sure, some of those names would be great addition to the roster. Some, not at all, for different reasons. AEW has already way too much talent honestly, guys like TH2 have barely been featured yet and it's been a year. At this point, I'd pick Callihan, Dragon Lee, Bandido, Pillman and Aldis and that's it. Fatu maybe, although he's way overated considering his actual output (granted, MLW is not a good place to shine unless you're working against LA Park apparently). LA Park showing up would be super cool, but would he be worth the headaches ? But like I said, AEW has too much talent already. They really should focus on what they have now and only pick up some really good catch when opportunity shows (Zelina as a manager, for obvious reasons).

[joeg]

I've said it here before about the AEW roster... Which of those guys I threw out there would be able to defend themselves if the average drunk fan came at them? O? That's what makes them indie sleaze, being on TNT for the last 18 months doesn't make them credible all of the sudden. The fact that they have been doing indie shit on TNT instead of an American Legion Hall for the past 18 months doesn't change the fact that they are indie wrestling acts and aren't credible as actual professional athletes. 

That is my point, instead of having a bunch of regular guys playing pro wrestler filling up the undercard and making portions of the show look bush league, why not co-operate with some of the "bigger indies" and use their top guys to fill up those spots with actual pro wrestlers. 

But if we can't agree that untrained guys like Joey Janela and Jack Evans aren't real pro wrestlers but ordinary guys playing pro wrestler like we all did in the backyard as kids then we will never agree on anything in modern wrestling. 

[NintendoLogic]

I'm pretty sure all the current ROH/Impact/MLW contracts either specifically preclude working for AEW or preclude working for any company with national TV. The only reason guys like MJF and Jimmy Havoc were able to work for AEW while still under contract to MLW is because their contracts predated AEW's existence and only prohibited working for WWE and Impact.

[rovert]

3 minutes ago, NintendoLogic said:

I'm pretty sure all the current ROH/Impact/MLW contracts either specifically preclude working for AEW or preclude working for any company with national TV. The only reason guys like MJF and Jimmy Havoc were able to work for AEW while still under contract to MLW is because their contracts predated AEW's existence and only prohibited working for WWE and Impact.

You are completely correct on ROH and IMPACT.

MLW contracts were looser/not future-proofed. Most MLW contracts written prior to AEW's existence and therefore didn't exclude talent from working AEW. The most recent wave of MLW contracts excludes their talent from working AEW.

[joeg]

Awesome answer... now how could a company like ROH/Impact/MLW/etc that runs less than 40 dates a year dictate who and where their independent contractors work for on nights where they don't run shows? Doesn't that violate independent contractor status and how would small companies be able to get away with doing that?

 

[El-P]

16 minutes ago, joeg said:

But if we can't agree that untrained guys like Joey Janela and Jack Evans aren't real pro wrestlers but ordinary guys playing pro wrestler like we all did in the backyard as kids then we will never agree on anything in modern wrestling. 

I guess so. To me it doesn't make any sense at all.

Brian Pillman also worked AEW while on MLW contract btw.