The Thread Killer Posted April 25, 2019 Report Share Posted April 25, 2019 I can honestly never decide if Vince and company are legitimately clueless as to what the fans want, and how to come up with compelling creative, or if they know and they've just decided that we're getting what they give us - whether we like it or not (àla John Cena and Roman Reigns.) I'd say they're incapable of presenting a compelling Pro Wrestling product, but if you look at NXT (for the most part, and this does tend to vacillate wildly) they have shown they are capable of presenting a straight-ahead viable wrestling show. Maybe part of the problem stems from the fact that they seem to think NXT is catered to "hardcore" fans, when in reality if you look at how their audience has shrunk since their beloved Attitude Era, "hardcore" fans are pretty much all they have left now. I don't really think there are any more so-called "casual" or new fans...but it seems to me that is the group they are trying to appeal to with their current blase product. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jmare007 Posted April 25, 2019 Report Share Posted April 25, 2019 Edit, skipped last page and didn't realized the Harper thing was posted and discussed already. 3 hours ago, FMKK said: Is it beyond the realm of possibility that WWE contracts could ever be challenged in court? Rey did, or least was willing to do it - can't remember if they actually went to court - and it took him like a year (or more) to be finally be released. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted April 25, 2019 Report Share Posted April 25, 2019 Yes, they think that what most fans want and what hardcore fans want are two different things. The problem is that in trying to make everyone happy, they often make no one happy. Wrestling is unique in that it literally tries to appeal to everyone instead of making choices about who it would rather appeal to. Aside from wrestling's stigma, that's one reason it's never commanded high ad rates, oftentimes lower rates than shows with less viewers. It's better to be exceptionally strong in one demographic than do respectable numbers in all of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirEdger Posted April 25, 2019 Report Share Posted April 25, 2019 1 hour ago, Charles (Loss) said: Also from the WON: So they don't want to be perceived like the bad guys but workers ask for their release and they flat out refuse them or add days to their contract. Vince's mind boggles me sometimes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted April 25, 2019 Report Share Posted April 25, 2019 49 minutes ago, The Thread Killer said: Maybe part of the problem stems from the fact that they seem to think NXT is catered to "hardcore" fans, when in reality if you look at how their audience has shrunk since their beloved Attitude Era, "hardcore" fans are pretty much all they have left now. That's a really good point. Pro-wrestling is a niche thing more than ever before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted April 25, 2019 Report Share Posted April 25, 2019 Vince has always thought things he comes up with/likes are better than what anyone else comes up with or likes. I'm willing to bet that's why he fights against the crowd so much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KawadaSmile Posted April 25, 2019 Author Report Share Posted April 25, 2019 Does this mean another Attitude Era?????? Hell yeah brothers nothing moves a company like a finantial crisis (or a bad prospect in the future) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Thread Killer Posted April 25, 2019 Report Share Posted April 25, 2019 2 hours ago, Charles (Loss) said: Yes, they think that what most fans want and what hardcore fans want are two different things. The problem is that in trying to make everyone happy, they often make no one happy. Wrestling is unique in that it literally tries to appeal to everyone instead of making choices about who it would rather appeal to. 1 hour ago, sek69 said: Vince has always thought things he comes up with/likes are better than what anyone else comes up with or likes. I'm willing to bet that's why he fights against the crowd so much. You guys are probably right. I think all the evidence is pretty clear that Vince is embarrassed of Professional Wrestling and he thinks that the only way he can trick people into watching it is if he alters it or disguises it in some way so the stupid audience doesn't really realize they're really getting wrestling. During the 80's boom it was a children's cartoon show with big muscular heroes and over the top characters, and during the Attitude Era it was profane, edgy almost adult content. I guess he thinks that nobody except hardcore fans want to see just plain old Pro Wrestling, which is the ultimate insult because it is really that fanbase that has sustained his company during it's downturns. It's too bad he's not comfortable or confident enough with his skills as a Pro Wrestling promoter. If he could accept that is what he is, we'd all be better off. Call me stupid, but I think if he would present a straight up Pro Wrestling show with traditional booking, roles and matches, people would still watch it in this era. I honestly believe a lot of what turns casual fans off is some of the stupid crap he does to try and appease them. I know a couple of lapsed fans who watched in the 90's, and their main complaint is that the characters are now bland and boring. And that's on Vinnie and his not-so-creative time and writers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FMKK Posted April 25, 2019 Report Share Posted April 25, 2019 4 hours ago, C.S. said: It's behind a paywall. Subscribe to the FT to read: WWE stock slammed as ticket sales and TV ratings drop Sorry, it wasn't for me. Maybe it's country dependant or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.S. Posted April 25, 2019 Report Share Posted April 25, 2019 Lio Rush supposedly has heat with WWE. https://www.wrestlinginc.com/news/2019/04/lio-rush-reportedly-has-backstage-heat-in-wwe-653471/ Which is shame, because he is easily the most (okay, only) interesting part of Lashley's act. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted April 25, 2019 Report Share Posted April 25, 2019 It's always been the kiss of death to think you're a star when WWE doesn't think you're a star. Because a wrestler being a star is apparently bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirEdger Posted April 25, 2019 Report Share Posted April 25, 2019 14 minutes ago, C.S. said: Lio Rush supposedly has heat with WWE. https://www.wrestlinginc.com/news/2019/04/lio-rush-reportedly-has-backstage-heat-in-wwe-653471/ Which is shame, because he is easily the most (okay, only) interesting part of Lashley's act. He's had heat in WWE since the minute he opened his mouth his first day in that locker room. Are you really surprised? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted April 25, 2019 Report Share Posted April 25, 2019 5 hours ago, El-P said: Can't wait for the next panic button as they build to a show "somewhere" next month. It's hilarious that they have to work to try and identify why people have been losing interest after years of troll booking and incompetent writing. WHY THE FUCK DO YOU THINK ? Obviously the ratings are falling because there hasn't been enough Baron Corbin on TV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FMKK Posted April 25, 2019 Report Share Posted April 25, 2019 41 minutes ago, sek69 said: It's always been the kiss of death to think you're a star when WWE doesn't think you're a star. Because a wrestler being a star is apparently bad. You have to grab the brass ring! While also being so humble and so proud and so pleased to have this wonderful opportunity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted April 25, 2019 Report Share Posted April 25, 2019 I think these are some of their biggest issue: 1. They haven't made any changes to the presentation since 1997. Their shows just look outdated and you get assaulted with constant jump cuts or missing things because they are trying to grab crowd reactions. It's really unpleasant to watch. and this is IMO the biggest problem. 2. They still book and present a product for casual fans. There are no fucking casual WWE fans anymore. There's too much WWE content on TV in a week for someone to be a casual now. All they have left is their core audience and they've been in a pissing match with them for the last 5 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted April 25, 2019 Report Share Posted April 25, 2019 I think it's funny the latest WON mentions WWE made a run at Joey Ryan (basically just because he's the only regular on Being the Elite not signed to an exclusive AEW deal), but he turned them down because he makes more money doing indy shows than he would moving cross country. Then Robert Roode shows up on Raw looking like Discount Joey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirEdger Posted April 25, 2019 Report Share Posted April 25, 2019 Look at WWE repackaging Liv Morgan as "Library Liv" soon enough Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Thread Killer Posted April 25, 2019 Report Share Posted April 25, 2019 16 minutes ago, Mad Dog said: ...you get assaulted with constant jump cuts or missing things because they are trying to grab crowd reactions. It's really unpleasant to watch. You said it, right there. When Owens turned on Kofi and started stomping on him, they did this ridiculous camera shot that I've seen them use before, where they rapidly zoom in and out so quickly you can barely focus on what it is you're seeing. It's enough to make you dizzy. I'd really love to know the logic behind shots like that. Is it supposed to be edgy, or innovative, or what? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Thread Killer Posted April 25, 2019 Report Share Posted April 25, 2019 1 hour ago, C.S. said: Lio Rush supposedly has heat with WWE. https://www.wrestlinginc.com/news/2019/04/lio-rush-reportedly-has-backstage-heat-in-wwe-653471/ Which is shame, because he is easily the most (okay, only) interesting part of Lashley's act. To be fair, there is more than ample evidence that Lio is a jerk IRL. This particular case may not be a case of rookie hazing. He may be getting himself some well deserved "Enzo Heat." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted April 25, 2019 Report Share Posted April 25, 2019 1 minute ago, The Thread Killer said: You said it, right there. When Owens turned on Kofi, they did this ridiculous camera shot that I've seen them use before, where they rapidly zoom in and out so quickly you can barely focus on what it is you're seeing. It's enough to make you dizzy. I'd really love to know the logic behind shots like that. Is it supposed to be edgy, or innovative, or what? It's supposed to disguise bad wrestling, but when the action looks fine, it's like pouring a bucket of sugar on top of a perfectly good birthday cake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted April 25, 2019 Report Share Posted April 25, 2019 1 minute ago, The Thread Killer said: You said it, right there. When Owens turned on Kofi, they did this ridiculous camera shot that I've seen them use before, where they rapidly zoom in and out so quickly you can barely focus on what it is you're seeing. It's enough to make you dizzy. I'd really love to know the logic behind shots like that. Is it supposed to be edgy, or innovative, or what? IIRC they started doing the barf inducing zoomy-zoomy cam when the Shield debuted, during their beatdowns. At the time I thought it made the Shield stand out, but now they do it all the time and it's nauseating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Thread Killer Posted April 25, 2019 Report Share Posted April 25, 2019 It reminds me of those old "Monster Chiller Horror Theater" sketches on SCTV, or the camera angles on that Batman TV show from the 60's. It's just goofy. That's a Kevin Dunn thing, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted April 25, 2019 Report Share Posted April 25, 2019 I think so. One of the WrestleCon shows did super harsh cuts during a comedy spot as a shot at WWE during Mania weekend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FMKK Posted April 25, 2019 Report Share Posted April 25, 2019 17 minutes ago, The Thread Killer said: You said it, right there. When Owens turned on Kofi and started stomping on him, they did this ridiculous camera shot that I've seen them use before, where they rapidly zoom in and out so quickly you can barely focus on what it is you're seeing. It's enough to make you dizzy. I'd really love to know the logic behind shots like that. Is it supposed to be edgy, or innovative, or what? I watched that angle with my brother yesterday, who usually only watches older stuff with me from the network, and that really stood out to him as being off-putting. As well as them having some ridiculously wordy graphic like "Charlotte Flair Has Earned A Future Championship Opportunity For The Smackdown Live Women's Championship Against Becky Lynch" appearing on screen after she beat Bayley instead of "Charlotte Flair: Number One Contender" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted April 25, 2019 Report Share Posted April 25, 2019 Vince's hatred of certain words (and having them be replaced by word combinations no human being would say in real conversation) will always be the defining Vince Quirk to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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