Comments that don't warrant a thread

[kjh]

If Cena is clean my dick is four feet long.

That's probably what Congress will think when Cena does Rafael Palmeiro's routine again.

[tomk]

I haven't read anyone's reaction to the finish anywhere, but I'm assuming there's lots of complaining.

 

It was a really shitty finish.

 

I mean the thing about Cena's matches by and large is that even in winning he tends to protect opponents finisher. Loosing opponent's finisher more over post match than pre-match. The Orton hits finisher two count kick out Cena hits finisher for pin really felt like shitty formula I expect out of HBK or HHH. I expect better from Cena.

 

The body of the match was really great. There were moments where thought it was fucking with being best Cena match. I absolutely don't get the Keller "no one buys a headl;ock in the post MMA world" since Orton was essentially working a rear naked choke. Orton working whole match as though he was building toward a knock out and not a pin you'd think would appeal to Keller's Kommentators. I always like the Cena fights out of having opponent apply finisher stuff and really liked the both guys attempt to do crazy versions of finisher spot (build to Orton trying for top rope pain killer followed by Cena fighitng to do FU to floor). Match built around both guys thinking they have to go extra mile to put away opponent finishing with a finisher exchange is bad.

 

For 2007 match with great build and flat finish, I think it was more dissapointing finish than Sano v Misawa.

[tomk]

Maybe it's just been too long since I've seen him, but did anyone else think that Rey looks to have put some weight on when he came back last night?

Haven't watched his comeback match yet. But he looked really SuperAstro-like after Eddie death/beginning of wellness. Doing lots of matches with taped ribs to hide lucha gut.

 

And another Nishimura match from his USA tour that sounds cool. Nishimura in the US should be a very interesting comp idea

Maan I would so be into that.

 

What else is there?

 

I assume there must be tape dealers with BANG! stuff.

Are there creepy Marti Funk pics of Nishimura wearing nothing but a title belt?

 

Has anyone ever found his Global title win v Alex Porteau?

[S.L.L.]

I haven't read anyone's reaction to the finish anywhere, but I'm assuming there's lots of complaining.

 

It was a really shitty finish.

 

I mean the thing about Cena's matches by and large is that even in winning he tends to protect opponents finisher. Loosing opponent's finisher more over post match than pre-match. The Orton hits finisher two count kick out Cena hits finisher for pin really felt like shitty formula I expect out of HBK or HHH. I expect better from Cena.

 

The body of the match was really great. There were moments where thought it was fucking with being best Cena match. I absolutely don't get the Keller "no one buys a headl;ock in the post MMA world" since Orton was essentially working a rear naked choke. Orton working whole match as though he was building toward a knock out and not a pin you'd think would appeal to Keller's Kommentators. I always like the Cena fights out of having opponent apply finisher stuff and really liked the both guys attempt to do crazy versions of finisher spot (build to Orton trying for top rope pain killer followed by Cena fighitng to do FU to floor). Match built around both guys thinking they have to go extra mile to put away opponent finishing with a finisher exchange is bad.

 

For 2007 match with great build and flat finish, I think it was more dissapointing finish than Sano v Misawa.

 

I see what you're getting at, but I can't really complain that much about the finish. Cena was going after Orton's leg, Orton snapped off an RKO but landed wrong, further hurting his leg, crawled over for the cover and got a two. Pretty standard "let the finisher get kicked out of without killing it" technique. It is something that HHH and Michaels do, but they build their entire matches in ways that kill their opponents. By itself, it seems innocuous. I didn't really get the sense that Orton looked weaker coming out of this match. It wasn't an Edge/Umaga/Khali situation where he came out looking stronger, but I don't think this really tarnished his image.

[Bix]

And another Nishimura match from his USA tour that sounds cool. Nishimura in the US should be a very interesting comp idea

Maan I would so be into that.

 

What else is there?

 

I assume there must be tape dealers with BANG! stuff.

I'm just about the only dude w/ BANG! tapes, I'd have to find them to convert to DVD. I know I have at least the iron man match w/ Windsor and a tag or two. I recall the tag exchanges w/ Brent Dail being his best stuff there. Nobody has a tape of his match w/ London, but there is a music video of it on one of my tapes.

 

Other stuff...

 

USWA '91: A squash w/ RVD commentary from the same comp set. A singles match with RVD that I know at least has clips on Jeff Osborne's Memphis '91 Yearbook tape.

 

ECW '94-'95: vs Malenko in the NWA tourny (clipped on TV), vs Douglas (TV), vs Benoit (TV, I think), vs Snow (TV), vs Joe Malenko (disappearing trader Shaunas LeFrancois shot a handheld that I've never seen floating around, sadly)

 

Other indies: Did TV for some group in Florida in '95 that also used Kanemoto and some FMW guys. I think Friedlander has the shows. Had a mat-based match w/ Sabu in Michigan in '94. Worked Chikara's TWGP in '06. Worked Brent Albright in the NWA tourny getting a DVD release.

 

Has anyone ever found his Global title win v Alex Porteau?

It was one of their last shows, I don't think it aired.

[Mad Dog]

Well, we could find out real easy by piss testing Steven Tyler. But seriously, Cena's a weird case. He supposedly goes around bragging to the other boys that he never uses steroids. Which means either 1.he's got one of the freakier DNA strands I've ever seen, or 2.he's an even bigger liar than most of these guys, since falsely claiming that you don't use drugs to the office or the media is considered "working the gimmick", but doing so to your friends is apparently bad form.

Actually I could totally buy it and out of most WWE guys I say he's probably the most likely to be clean. I say this only because I saw him as the Prototype pre-WWE and he's actually lost muscle since then. Actually quite a bit of muscle since then.

[Guest KCook]

Cena's steroids are on steroids. (As are Triple H's—I caught some of Raw and if he's clean my dick is eight feet long.) I think Cena's inevitable exposure as a fraud will be the most hilarious out of all these guys.

[Tim Evans]

And another Nishimura match from his USA tour that sounds cool. Nishimura in the US should be a very interesting comp idea

Maan I would so be into that.

 

What else is there?

 

I assume there must be tape dealers with BANG! stuff.

I'm just about the only dude w/ BANG! tapes, I'd have to find them to convert to DVD. I know I have at least the iron man match w/ Windsor and a tag or two. I recall the tag exchanges w/ Brent Dail being his best stuff there. Nobody has a tape of his match w/ London, but there is a music video of it on one of my tapes.

 

I have BANG tapes as it use to air here in Orlando on Saturday mornings. I think I have Nishimura and Windsor tagging. And I know I have Paul London vs Simply Luscious in a stiff as hell match.

 

Hey Bix, You have Nishimura's match from CMLL vs Wagner? I got that.

[kjh]

Actually I could totally buy it and out of most WWE guys I say he's probably the most likely to be clean. I say this only because I saw him as the Prototype pre-WWE and he's actually lost muscle since then. Actually quite a bit of muscle since then.

All that means is he isn't as ridiculously juiced up as he used to be. Look at Edge, everyone said he was clean after the Wellness policy was introduced because he lost a lot of muscle, yet there he was still obtaining growth hormone and steroids from Signature Pharmacy up to February of this year.

[Guest *FH*]

Dudes, motherfucking UMAGA was on some shit. It's safe to say all bets are off and Hornswaggle will probably be on the next list to come out.

[tomk]

I see what you're getting at, but I can't really complain that much about the finish. Cena was going after Orton's leg, Orton snapped off an RKO but landed wrong, further hurting his leg, crawled over for the cover and got a two. Pretty standard "let the finisher get kicked out of without killing it" technique.

Ehh I really hated the Ultimo Guerrero top rope tiger drivers Mistico only to sprain his ankle in the process..leading to Mistico popping up unscathed to hit his finisher.

 

This wasn't as shitty (as didn't have the real almost lazy Samoan match structure where only way they can be hurt is by accidental collision hurting selves) but still.

[Dylan Waco]

And another Nishimura match from his USA tour that sounds cool. Nishimura in the US should be a very interesting comp idea

Maan I would so be into that.

 

What else is there?

 

I assume there must be tape dealers with BANG! stuff.

I'm just about the only dude w/ BANG! tapes, I'd have to find them to convert to DVD. I know I have at least the iron man match w/ Windsor and a tag or two. I recall the tag exchanges w/ Brent Dail being his best stuff there. Nobody has a tape of his match w/ London, but there is a music video of it on one of my tapes.

 

Other stuff...

 

USWA '91: A squash w/ RVD commentary from the same comp set. A singles match with RVD that I know at least has clips on Jeff Osborne's Memphis '91 Yearbook tape.

 

ECW '94-'95: vs Malenko in the NWA tourny (clipped on TV), vs Douglas (TV), vs Benoit (TV, I think), vs Snow (TV), vs Joe Malenko (disappearing trader Shaunas LeFrancois shot a handheld that I've never seen floating around, sadly)

 

Other indies: Did TV for some group in Florida in '95 that also used Kanemoto and some FMW guys. I think Friedlander has the shows. Had a mat-based match w/ Sabu in Michigan in '94. Worked Chikara's TWGP in '06. Worked Brent Albright in the NWA tourny getting a DVD release.

 

Has anyone ever found his Global title win v Alex Porteau?

It was one of their last shows, I don't think it aired.

 

 

I think I may have Nish v. Joe Malenko via the Shaunas handheld. Hadn't that name in years..whatever happened to him?

[Bix]

I have no idea what happened to him. Never got to deal with him myself.

 

You have anything else from him?

[Guest KCook]

Hey, here's something: CM Punk has turned into everything his most annoying dickriders said he could turn into, which is actually pretty damn cool.

[Dylan Waco]

I have no idea what happened to him. Never got to deal with him myself.

 

You have anything else from him?

 

I got several things from him years ago. I"m fairly certain TY from a1 also made some deals with Shaunas.

 

To be honest I have no clue what I do and don't have anymore and I'm really close to just selling what I have off as I never watch any of it and I don't have a VCR to DVD converter.

[S.L.L.]

I see what you're getting at, but I can't really complain that much about the finish. Cena was going after Orton's leg, Orton snapped off an RKO but landed wrong, further hurting his leg, crawled over for the cover and got a two. Pretty standard "let the finisher get kicked out of without killing it" technique.

Ehh I really hated the Ultimo Guerrero top rope tiger drivers Mistico only to sprain his ankle in the process..leading to Mistico popping up unscathed to hit his finisher.

I don't know if Cena really "popped up unscathed", at least not any more so than is to be expected in wrestling. Those UG/Mistico matches grated on me, too, but I really didn't see that happening here.

[Jingus]

Hey, here's something: CM Punk has turned into everything his most annoying dickriders said he could turn into, which is actually pretty damn cool.

As much as I dislike the ratty little fucker, I gotta admit that match and especially the finish were very well done, and the crowd reaction was fairly amazing.

 

I didn't really get the sense that Orton looked weaker coming out of this match. It wasn't an Edge/Umaga/Khali situation where he came out looking stronger, but I don't think this really tarnished his image.

Wait, how did that work? Edge came out stronger, sure, his feuds with Cena are what established him as a top guy. But imho Umaga didn't gain anything. Yes, Cena's wins over him consisted of a fluke rollup and strangling him with a rope (in hindsight, probably not a finish we'll see again real soon), but it still ended his undefeated streak. And Khali? His lame submission loss in their first match happened so suddenly and unexpectedly that I thought I was having Montreal flashbacks. And then Cena threw him off a skyscraper and pinned him in the rematch. Completely killed Khali's invincible aura. And I don't even like Khali, but his losses like that were pretty odd.

[Loss]

The Cena/Khali feud certainly helped Khali, because it showed if built up strongly, he can draw money. Without that, he never would have the SD title.

 

Umaga came out of the Cena feud and went straight into the most hyped Wrestlemania match and has stayed near the top of the mix consistently since then. Prior to the Cena feud, he was running an undefeated streak and was protected, but the Cena feud was really what established him at the top.

[Loss]

Also, how many times has HHH tried and failed to turn babyface in the past? The Cena program made it stick for him finally.

[Jingus]

Khali drew money? Weren't the PPV buyrates down? Also, I think it was more an issue of damn near every main eventer on the SD roster either getting drafted to Raw or put on the shelf that led to his title reign, not his minifeud with Cena where he jobbed repeatedly.

 

As for Umaga, that one's tougher to say. I do think the Rumble match helped establish him as a legit top talent. But I'd say their feud boosted Cena more than him. Cena had been in limbo ever since he finished up with Edge the previous year and hadn't had a compelling opponent for months, and then got to beat the undefeated monster twice in a row. Yeah, Umaga did go on to do the Trump match, but it's not like Cena carried him to that spot, Yumanga had been given the monster push from hell to the point that they let him pin HHH and Shawn Michaels.

[Jingus]

Also, how many times has HHH tried and failed to turn babyface in the past? The Cena program made it stick for him finally.

...huh? He was supposed to be the heel in those matches. It just happened to be at the peak of the Boo Cena trend.

[Loss]

HHH was able to turn babyface because of that feud. Yes, he was supposed to be the heel in those matches, but he played a babyface because he was put in the psychological position of saying what the fans wanted to hear.

 

The first Khali/Cena PPV match drew well.

[tomk]

I'm not sure to what degree Cean helped make HHH as face.

But HHH clearly took advantage of the Cena backlash to help with his face push.

 

The fans were booing everyone at the beginning of that feud. I was at the RAW where HHH got cheers for saying that Cena wasn't a very good wrestler. On the same night before saying that line, HHH was met with chants of "We want Sid" (foreshadowing?)and "we want Jarrett" and similar chants of "we are indifferent to you". Meltzer wrote about the " We want Jarrett" chants in the Observer.

 

It should also be pointed out that this was same show that was main evented by HBK joining the Kiss My Ass club. (It was a long combined show and I was put in drunk tank for that segment so don't know how it played live). But this was end of February, and they were already teasing a face DX reunion which would take place two months later.

 

At end of February HHH was met with indifference as a heel and was already being teased for a face turn.

 

HHH is always a shitty heel to be programed against (with one exception). And this was especially shitty time to be programed as a face opposite him.

[smkelly]

Austin, Rock, Taker, Batista, and Cena all had good sucess against HHH as a heel. Benoit as well, to a lesser extent.

[Indikator]

I think a face opponent could get something out of HHH, but it was less than what HHH got out of the feud himself. Thus Benoit, Booker, Eugene and were kind of screwed. Randy and Batista were a little bit different as they were clearly more pushed by managment, yet you could make the case that HHH tried to sabotage them (see: Eugene).