Comments that don't warrant a thread

[JHawk]

Click here to watch a clipped version of the 12-30-85 LLT match

 

About 15 minutes of a 23-minute match.

[BO1]

Thank you for the compassion JHawk, must've seen that bit a million times though(and loved it over and over). There's a great Dundee compilation on Googlevideo which features the 83 LLT, which may be even better, perhaps one of my favorites.

Although, I must ask since you put it up, to who ever's seen the missing 8 minutes from this 1985 LLT clip, what IS missing from it? What takes place between the cuts?

[Loss]

The pre-80s match is probably 08/29/77. It was a hair match and was really good.

[Resident Evil]

Wild Pegasus & Shinjiro Otani beat Koji Kanemoto & Black Tiger 3/7/95 - I believe this is the match JDW referenced in his NJPW pimping post. Does this exist on tape?

Yes, it exists on tape.

 

JDW's list is from awhile back I believe so he couldn't have been talking about this match since it came out on one of the New Japan classic type shows fairly recently. It is an obvious setup match for the Benoit vs Kanemoto title fight on 3/13/95. It gives the title fight some more story. I remember the match so if you want to know anything about it, I'll tell you.

 

Almost every Benoit match that I know exists on videotape is right here. http://prowrestlingonly.com/blog/wildpegas...hp?showentry=26 I haven't updated the list in a long time and don't know if I fixed everything up in it. I don't have the heart for it anymore. However, I'm not going to delete it.

[Resident Evil]

2/3 Falls: El Hijo del Santo , Mascara Sagrada & El Mexicano beat Wild Pegasus, Black Tiger & Black Cat (14:25). Mexicano used a Liger bomb on Tiger (5:01). Tiger pinned Mexicano (4:14). Santo submitted Cat (5:10).

Holy shit. Santo has been in the same ring as Benoit?!?!?!?

 

Please tell me this match exists on tape? 11/16/94 is the date.

 

I don't think that match exists on tape though there is a clipped (not much footage shown) 8 man tag match from 11/21/94 and I think Santo is that. It's clipped and it's good fun but I don't really remember any Benoit vs Santo.

There's a prominent Mexico tag in 92 with Benoit vs Santo that looks very promising given the particpants but no footage has ever come up from it. I can't even remember who's in it now due to poor memory.

[goodhelmet]

Can anyone list all the MSC matches Lawler and Dundee had in the 80's? Sadly, while I haven't seen any but one from the 70's, I know they had an estimated million(with varied stipulations galore). As for the 80's though, I am aware of the June 83 and December 85 LLT matches. Regarding any matches further, I'm sadly at loss. There is the match in Dundee's "Opening The Vault" though(viewed here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p05x_QqeNbE) which is easily recognizable as an 80's match between the two, and I even think preceeds one of the talked about bouts above.

 

All helper would be deeply thanked in advance.

Right now, we are in the early stages of hunting for and collecting as much Memphis footage as humanly possible for the DVDVR 80s project. I imagine that if Lawler-Dundee have a match that is near complete on tape then we will find it. Give us a few months.

[BO1]

Can anyone list all the MSC matches Lawler and Dundee had in the 80's? Sadly, while I haven't seen any but one from the 70's, I know they had an estimated million(with varied stipulations galore). As for the 80's though, I am aware of the June 83 and December 85 LLT matches. Regarding any matches further, I'm sadly at loss. There is the match in Dundee's "Opening The Vault" though(viewed here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p05x_QqeNbE) which is easily recognizable as an 80's match between the two, and I even think preceeds one of the talked about bouts above.

 

All helper would be deeply thanked in advance.

Right now, we are in the early stages of hunting for and collecting as much Memphis footage as humanly possible for the DVDVR 80s project. I imagine that if Lawler-Dundee have a match that is near complete on tape then we will find it. Give us a few months.

 

You're great goodhelmet, if I ever get around to making some money I have a shitload of stuff I need to pickup from you.

[BO1]

Yeah, I think it's the match from one of your DVD's Loss. Really need to get those too. Is that hair match though the one which is for Beverly Dundee's hair too?

 

BTW, there's Lawler/Dundee 70's footage on Bix's Youtube page from the 1979 news story on Memphis which looks to be terrific as well.

It's mind boggling how this pairing isn't more talked about more often alongside ones such as Santo/Casas, Flair/Steamboat and perhaps even Misawa/Kawada. They sure as fuck deserve it more than most others I can think off.

[JHawk]

The problem with the Dundee-Lawler matches is they had so many over such a long period of time that it's almost impossible to keep the different feuds straight unless you were there at the time.

 

I do know that most of the MSC shows were taped, at least in the Jerry Jarrett era, and while I'm not sure how many people would have those complete, I'm sure Jarrett has the masters tucked away somewhere.

[smkelly]

Wild Pegasus & Shinjiro Otani beat Koji Kanemoto & Black Tiger 3/7/95 - I believe this is the match JDW referenced in his NJPW pimping post. Does this exist on tape?

Yes, it exists on tape.

 

JDW's list is from awhile back I believe so he couldn't have been talking about this match since it came out on one of the New Japan classic type shows fairly recently. It is an obvious setup match for the Benoit vs Kanemoto title fight on 3/13/95. It gives the title fight some more story. I remember the match so if you want to know anything about it, I'll tell you.

 

Almost every Benoit match that I know exists on videotape is right here. http://prowrestlingonly.com/blog/wildpegas...hp?showentry=26 I haven't updated the list in a long time and don't know if I fixed everything up in it. I don't have the heart for it anymore. However, I'm not going to delete it.

 

14. Great Sasuke & Black Tiger vs. Wild Pegasus & Shinjiro Ohtani ­ (10/16/94 - SG Jr. Tag League '94 Finals)

A terrific spot-a-thon. I'm probably less ga-ga over this than most people as seen lucha matches live that were at the same level or even better... and seen a tag with three of these four plus Koji that was in the same range. But this does stand out as being the most memorable juniors tag of the decade

[Resident Evil]

Wild Pegasus & Shinjiro Otani beat Koji Kanemoto & Black Tiger 3/7/95 - I believe this is the match JDW referenced in his NJPW pimping post. Does this exist on tape?

Yes, it exists on tape.

 

JDW's list is from awhile back I believe so he couldn't have been talking about this match since it came out on one of the New Japan classic type shows fairly recently. It is an obvious setup match for the Benoit vs Kanemoto title fight on 3/13/95. It gives the title fight some more story. I remember the match so if you want to know anything about it, I'll tell you.

 

Almost every Benoit match that I know exists on videotape is right here. http://prowrestlingonly.com/blog/wildpegas...hp?showentry=26 I haven't updated the list in a long time and don't know if I fixed everything up in it. I don't have the heart for it anymore. However, I'm not going to delete it.

 

14. Great Sasuke & Black Tiger vs. Wild Pegasus & Shinjiro Ohtani ­ (10/16/94 - SG Jr. Tag League '94 Finals)

A terrific spot-a-thon. I'm probably less ga-ga over this than most people as seen lucha matches live that were at the same level or even better... and seen a tag with three of these four plus Koji that was in the same range. But this does stand out as being the most memorable juniors tag of the decade

I have no idea what match he's talking about. I'd assume JDW (he can speak for himself) saw it live or something because the 3/95 tag is not up to the level of 10/16/94 or 10/9/94. I don't want to spoil the match here but the match in question was not meant to be a epic. Still the tournament final pairing prove they have chemistry under different circumstances.

That pairing of Benoit/Eddie/Kanemoto/Ohtani is certainly capable though.

[jdw]

The one I saw live was from Fan Appreciation Night later in March 1995: 03/27/95 at Tokyo Gym. Same night as the Kanakishi-Nagata Young Lions Final, which was taped. I don't recall if the junior tag was taped, or if it ened up on one of the NJPW classics.

 

It wasn't as spectacular as the junior tag league matches. More just the type of match that they could fall out of bed and have when given 14+ minutes to work with. Type of thing that would have gotten 5* in ECW Arena or 4 1/2*+ on a WCW or WWF PPV. Meltzer gave it 4 1/2 * probably judging hit on the second of those scales. I recall an ECW Fan (Herzog if I recall) giving the two better Peace Festival matches 5* on the first scale... and I don't think the Liger-Sasuke and the AAA match were better than this.

 

 

John

[jdw]

New Japan Match List

 

That site has been that way for seemingly a few years now. It says to check back often to see updates, but as far as I can tell, it's never been updated since it's original posting.

I actually think Chris finished with NJPW somewhere, but the person who did the HTML never grabbed them. Chris' lists may be somewhere on the hard drive.

 

John

[smkelly]

I googled every reference I could think of, and can't find a thing....

 

Is DVDVR planning on doing a best of 2000's, like they did for the '90s?

 

We're two years + a couple of days away. Would anyone else be up to starting the project here?

[Loss]

I would love to create or rip off some type of all-encompassing DVD project to do here, but I have no idea what it would be. The idea was put out there a few years ago to do Best Matches Ever and do a million categories and make this whole thing pretty insane, but the sheer hugeness of the project sort of killed the idea before it started.

 

I'm definitely open to suggestions. That goes for everyone. If you think of something that you think would work, start a thread to gauge interest.

[smkelly]

Well, I think we could do a 2000 to present project.

 

Unlike the '90s and '80s, there won't be an overflowing bucket of matches.

[smkelly]

If this is the path we decide to go, we should break it up by organizations.

 

AJPW

NJPW

NOAH

AAA

CMLL

WWF

ROH

TNA

 

Various Indies, etc.

[S.L.L.]

Well, I think we could do a 2000 to present project.

 

Unlike the '90s and '80s, there won't be an overflowing bucket of matches.

'80s and '90s might have had more great wrestling just by virtue of having more wrestling, period.

 

Figure the DVDVR 80's Project has looked at/will look at:

 

WWF

Other Japan

Mid-South

Joshi

All Japan

New Japan

AWA

Solie (which may have been broken up further, though I'm not sure)

Canada/Other US

Mexico

Texas/Memphis/Puerto Rico

 

The '90s polls had:

 

WCW

New Japan

Japanese Indies

All Japan

Lucha Libre

US Indies

Joshi

ECW (which probably should have been lumped in with US indies, but there you go)

WWF

 

A hypothetical 2000's poll would likely have:

 

WWF/E

US indies (ROH might get the ECW treatment, I'm not sure what they'd do with TNA or deathbed WCW, not like there would be too many hyped matches from either of those)

Lucha Libre

New Japan

NOAH

All Japan & Various Japanese Promotions that tried to become major players (Zero-One, maybe HUSTLE?)

Other Japanese Indies (probably including joshi)

 

Not sure if it would be so much a decline in the quality of wrestling this decade as a side effect of the further consolidation of wrestling this decade. I mean, the Japanese promotions of the 2000's probably wouldn't look to good next to the promotions of the '90s, but 21st century WWE might look a lot better than '90s WWF.

[smkelly]

Made a seperate topic for this discussion.

[tomk]

The '90s polls had:

 

WCW

New Japan

Japanese Indies

All Japan

Lucha Libre

US Indies

Joshi

ECW (which probably should have been lumped in with US indies, but there you go)

WWF

Looking at the results and the problems with the results of the nineties polls, if we were to do the nineties again (which we may end up doing) we would split stuff up more.

 

It might as project be more manageable if we did it in five year blocks instead of decade blocks.

 

I think we might split the US indies in regional blocks South East, Kentucky/Tennessee/Texas, West Coast. North East (I'd lump ECW in here), Midwest.

 

I would split EMLL from AAA, possibly with AAAA category being AAA plus other lucha (Tijuana, UWA end , etc.) but I could see lumping other with EMLL group too. I don't know what you do with the other lucha, but point is not splitting Mexico is a mistake.

 

Most importantly we would split the Other Japan up as just doesn't make sense to look at WAR, worked shoot promotions, garbage promotions, lucharesu promtions, SWS , etc as one block. We've talked about this before and think the best way to split would be in groups by spiritual forefathers; Children of Maeda, Children of Tenryu, Children of Hamada, and Children of Onita. There are problems with that setup; Super J Cup being judged within context of WAR instead of vis a vis lucha influenced juniors promotions...will skew things off. But I think benefits of breaking up this way outweigh negatives.

 

If I were organizing a Prowrestling only project I think having a group like this do a thorough look at the Children of Tenryu category would be most interesting as really no one talks about SWS or WAR outside of the J Cup these days.

[MikeCampbell]

I got the three-disc Best of RAW 15th Anniversary DVD set for my birthday along with the World Class DVD. The match lists for the RAW set look great. But does anyone know if the matches/angles are shown in full? I'm swimming in DVDs at the moment, and with work, wedding stuff, and all the family stuff over the holidays, who knows when I'll get to sit down with them.

[Al]

I got the three-disc Best of RAW 15th Anniversary DVD set for my birthday along with the World Class DVD. The match lists for the RAW set look great. But does anyone know if the matches/angles are shown in full? I'm swimming in DVDs at the moment, and with work, wedding stuff, and all the family stuff over the holidays, who knows when I'll get to sit down with them.

Most matches are shown in full, including Hennig/Flair, Bret/Kid, Shawn/Marty, Kid/Razor, Mankind/Rock, Bulldog/Owen. The stuff clipped generally isn't the classics anyway.

[Al]

The HHH/Jericho faux title change is included in its entirety as well.

[Marty]

So reading some updates from Meltz that I missed due to the holidays, when I saw this:

 

"--Best of these wrestlers:

Bret Hart 81.3%

Jumbo Tsuruta 18.7%

Kind of a shame here. Jumbo Tsuruta's best work stacks up to any wrestler in history."

 

Did Dave change his viewpoint on Jumbo just recently, or has it been a while now?

[Loss]

Dave has always loved Jumbo. The only thing he has ever really argued was that you didn't get the same Jumbo on small shows that you did on big shows, whereas with Flair, he worked equally hard every night.