AEW Dynamite - January 15, 2020

[C.S.]

6 hours ago, Blehschmidt said:

I didn't feel the need to comment on the rest of your post, because other than having differing opinions on the opener (which really comes down to whether you like the style) I was pretty much in agreeance with you on the content of the episode.

I like PAC, but I wouldn't rate him in my Fave 5 or anything like that. I just don't understand this visceral hatred you put in this thread literally every single time he is on TV. There are certainly things to nitpick with the AEW product, but I don't see at any point where he has been part of those things. Obviously you don't like the guy, that's cool. I just don't get making statements like Tony Khan must regret signing him, when he's done nothing but put on good matches. It's not like he's been involved in the segments or angles that are bombing, he hasn't injured anyone, and I can't think they are paying him Jericho money in the first place.

I think you're misinterpreting my post a bit as "I hate PAC, so therefore Tony Khan must regret signing him," when in actuality, there's a specific rumor going around that Khan regrets spending so much on certain signings and is now under the constraints of a tight budget because there's little left over.

Assuming the rumor is true (which it may not be), PAC is absolutely someone that would fall in that category (along with Spears). That doesn't mean Khan doesn't want PAC or wishes he hadn't signed PAC at all. Tony can still regret spending so much of AEW's limited budget on a wrestler while still being pleased with what he contributes. The fact is, PAC wasn't a star of any kind before and is still less of a star than younger talent like MJF, Darby, and Sammy Guevera. 

I'm inclined to believe the rumor because Marty Scurll seemed like a sure thing for AEW but ended up re-signing with ROH instead. If Tony had unlimited funds or didn't use up more than he should've for the likes of PAC and Spears, some of that funding could've gone toward signing "The Villain" instead.

1 hour ago, The Thread Killer said:

Okay, if it does end up being Matt Hardy - especially in his "broken" persona - I will officially walk back everything negative I have said about this angle.  The whole Broken Universe is so happily goofy and over-the-top that The Dark Order would fit right in.  We wouldn't be expected to take them or the angle "seriously" if it was Broken Matt Hardy, so I could fully buy into that idea as a fan.

Not me! Matt Hardy is better off being used as a jobber on Main Event for big money than having anything to do with the shitfest that is The Dark Order. Not even the "Broken Universe" can save this putrid pile of dog dookie. 

[Alucard]

Just to clarify, only one of the three Aries/Pac matches was on the preshow. That being WrestleMania which I thought was pretty memorable for the setting and the time they got being on first. The next two were both on the main PPV card of Payback and Extreme Rules. My favorite series in WWE that year.

[Strummer]

according to the newest Observer Tony Khan has taken on a much bigger role in booking since the negative reaction to the 12/18 show

[Tim Evans]

The Production on the show was way more noticeable than most weeks and that's not a good thing. Multiple missed finishes, bad camera angles, jut things were off. Maybe Keith Mitchell shouldn't be in production in 2020. I remember his time in WCW and it wasn't much better.

Otherwise, I enjoyed the show for the most part. The opener was really good with a hot crowd. I liked the Six-man too. PAC/Allin was was good but man I hate seeing Darby lose again clean. I can understand losing to Cody but PAC? Just blah. Even the parts I didn't like( women's match) was better than most of last week's show.

[rovert]

1 hour ago, Strummer said:

according to the newest Observer Tony Khan has taken on a much bigger role in booking since the negative reaction to the 12/18 show

All true. Tony is cool as shit and uber approachable.

But there's genuine concern about next week's "boat show" as they really want two strong shows in a row.

I really, really liked the ROH show on the last Cruise. Super loose and crowd-pleasing. The oldest school schtick based. But that wasn't a live national TV broadcast. 

[sek69]

So the new Observer mentions Marty Scurll was the first choice to be the leader of the Dark Order and the main event beatdown that everyone hated was supposed to be capped off with his reveal. Then ROH decided to break open their piggy bank and all that went down the tubes.

[C.S.]

7 hours ago, sek69 said:

So the new Observer mentions Marty Scurll was the first choice to be the leader of the Dark Order and the main event beatdown that everyone hated was supposed to be capped off with his reveal. Then ROH decided to break open their piggy bank and all that went down the tubes.

I take back anything bad I ever said about Scurll re-signing with ROH. That was clearly the better choice than leading the dead end Dark Order.

[The Thread Killer]

Yeah I was just going to say that too.  No wonder he signed with ROH.  They supposedly offered him less dates, more money, creative control, permission to work outside ROH and most importantly, he wouldn't have to be associated with The Dark Order.  He'd have to be nuts not to take that deal, how can you beat that?

[The Thread Killer]

9 hours ago, rovert said:

I really, really liked the ROH show on the last Cruise. Super loose and crowd-pleasing. The oldest school schtick based. But that wasn't a live national TV broadcast. 

Was that ROH show from Jericho's cruise ever made available on Fite or some other VOD, or was it exclusive to the cruise?

[SirEdger]

Might be available on ROH's VOD service. I'm sure they used footage of that show for Honor Club ads.

[Stiva]

I am far more on board with Matt Hardy leading The Dark Order than Scurll, to be perfectly honest. 

[NintendoLogic]

Honestly, penciling in Scurll as the Dark Order's higher power without having him locked in or having a suitable backup plan in case it fell through is pretty bush-league. Good on Tony for taking control, because Omega and the Bucks don't seem to be ready for prime time as bookers.

[MaseMan]

I enjoyed the episode. The funny thing is, the Dark Order doesn't bother me that much. They shouldn't be "feuding" with the Elite though...they should be feuding with the Best Friends or something. 

The Nightmare Collective absolutely needs to go away. If they're hell bent on keeping the group, they should have them turn on Brandi. Take out Luther and erase him from history, while they're at it. Brandi isnt believable in this role, and Luther is beyond useless. 

The latest Dark episode continued the Shanna/Nyla feud, which has actually been halfway decent. They should be showcasing that, rather than the Nightmare Collective silliness. 

I agree with others that Darby deserves to start getting some bigger wins, and not just job in competitive matches. 

[rovert]

17 hours ago, sek69 said:

So the new Observer mentions Marty Scurll was the first choice to be the leader of the Dark Order and the main event beatdown that everyone hated was supposed to be capped off with his reveal. Then ROH decided to break open their piggy bank and all that went down the tubes.

Not how it happened. Marty decided on ROH in September. His was deal with ROH was agreed on in November.

As hashed out on Voices of Wrestling's Flagship this week. Marty has been working to repair the relationships with NWA and for awhile. If you watch Marty's Youtube channel he laid out his directions/the Aldis in September. 

[sek69]

1 minute ago, rovert said:

Not how it happened. Marty decided on ROH in September. His was deal with ROH was agreed on in November.

As hashed out on Voices of Wrestling's Flagship this week. Marty has been working to repair the relationships with NWA and for awhile. If you watch Marty's Youtube channel he laid out his directions/the Aldis in September. 

Considering Dave's probable sources in AEW, it sure seems they thought they still had a chance to land him. 

It also makes sense if Cody and the gang got played like that, it would have been the reason for Tony to take more of the reigns in booking after seeing his boys get clowned. 

 

[rovert]

2 hours ago, sek69 said:

Considering Dave's probable sources in AEW, it sure seems they thought they still had a chance to land him. 

It also makes sense if Cody and the gang got played like that, it would have been the reason for Tony to take more of the reigns in booking after seeing his boys get clowned. 

 

The Meltzer/AEW thing is so tiresome. But it is what it is. He will lose his shit if WWE doesn't deliver a locally advertised dark match at a TV taping. But for months and months Being The Elite on Youtube created the expectation Marty was coming in. Casual/faithful ELITE/AEW fans thought it was a done and were left disappointed.

ROH presented Marty with an incredible package and he made the best decision for him. No question. But trust me Marty and Cody have an odd relationship. Cody made it clear Marty was the sixth and bottom member of the Elite and broadly thought Marty was using the Being The Elite Youtube show and the general faction deal to promote his own separate merch.

[Martyn]

On 1/17/2020 at 2:11 AM, C.S. said:

On 1/17/2020 at 2:11 AM, C.S. said:

I think you're misinterpreting my post a bit as "I hate PAC, so therefore Tony Khan must regret signing him," when in actuality, there's a specific rumor going around that Khan regrets spending so much on certain signings and is now under the constraints of a tight budget because there's little left over.

 Assuming the rumor is true (which it may not be), PAC is absolutely someone that would fall in that category (along with Spears). That doesn't mean Khan doesn't want PAC or wishes he hadn't signed PAC at all. Tony can still regret spending so much of AEW's limited budget on a wrestler while still being pleased with what he contributes. The fact is, PAC wasn't a star of any kind before and is still less of a star than younger talent like MJF, Darby, and Sammy Guevera. 

 I'm inclined to believe the rumor because Marty Scurll seemed like a sure thing for AEW but ended up re-signing with ROH instead. If Tony had unlimited funds or didn't use up more than he should've for the likes of PAC and Spears, some of that funding could've gone toward signing "The Villain" instead.

Have you heard the news about Dynamite being extended until the end of 2023 with a lock of staying there until the end of 2024 on a renegotiated and much bigger budget? Per last issue of WON, AEW with all those deals in place, is the second most profitable company in the world. Grossing even more than what New Japan does. Therefore, money isnt really an issue. Of course, its not like they can throw money left and right, but they do have the resources to keep guys like PAC. Your point about him *not* being a star is laughable and subjective. 

 

Marty Scurll did what he thought is the best for him and the company he worked for. He does make a difference in ROH and is more needed there than anywhere else at the moment. AEW shouldnt really add plenty of new guys before they elevate the current talent over and get another hour on tv later this year. Spending tons of money on a guy you might not really have time for/would take the air time of already signed people, when your own roster still needs development sounds exactly like WWE having hunderds of guys on the contract just for the sake of it and AEW is not like them. Khan said it many times. 

 

I would love to see him in AEW one day, but I am perfectly fine with it if its two/three years from now. They dont need him at this point. 

[FMKK]

9 hours ago, MaseMan said:

I enjoyed the episode. The funny thing is, the Dark Order doesn't bother me that much. They shouldn't be "feuding" with the Elite though...they should be feuding with the Best Friends or something. 

The Nightmare Collective absolutely needs to go away. If they're hell bent on keeping the group, they should have them turn on Brandi. Take out Luther and erase him from history, while they're at it. Brandi isnt believable in this role, and Luther is beyond useless. 

The latest Dark episode continued the Shanna/Nyla feud, which has actually been halfway decent. They should be showcasing that, rather than the Nightmare Collective silliness. 

I agree with others that Darby deserves to start getting some bigger wins, and not just job in competitive matches. 

If they introduce a midcard title soon, that would be the perfect way for Darby to finally get his big victory. Especially if Cody carries it for a little while first because then they can pay off their series.

[C.S.]

5 hours ago, Martyn said:

 Have you heard the news about Dynamite being extended until the end of 2023 with a lock of staying there until the end of 2024 on a renegotiated and much bigger budget? Per last issue of WON, AEW with all those deals in place, is the second most profitable company in the world. Grossing even more than what New Japan does. Therefore, money isnt really an issue. Of course, its not like they can throw money left and right, but they do have the resources to keep guys like PAC. Your point about him *not* being a star is laughable and subjective. 

Yes, but:

1. My posts pre-date that news.

2. PAC's signing and the original rumors about Tony regretting spending so much on certain people came weeks/months before this TNT extension, second show, etc. news.

3. Call my point laughable and subjective all you want, but if PAC left today, AEW would be fine. If he re-joined WWE/NXT tomorrow, he would not be a difference-maker. Losing MJF, Sammy Guevara, Darby Allin, etc. would be felt more. Personality, charisma, and character > movez any day of the week. PAC's first official AEW match was delayed for months, and AEW still did just fine without him, which is all the proof you need that he's just another cog in the wheel. PAC is being used sort of like Drew McIntyre in WWE (not a perfect example, but close enough), which is a good way to use him. 

Anyway, I've said all I have to say about PAC. (For this week, at least.) Movez fans will continue to adore him. I will continue to be bored with his staggering lack of charisma, personality, character, and starpower. We'll all continue to hopefully enjoy most of what AEW has to offer. Most importantly, we'll all continue to be a united front in our dislike of The Dark Order and The Nightmare Collective.  

[War is Raw]

Booking-wise,

PAC won to set up the MOX vs PAC rematch, and force MOX to get through the best of the best to get to Jericho.

Darby already has his chance with MOX and was dominated in that match. Darby is someone who looks better even after he loses, but is not in the title picture at the moment.

Anyway future judgement about the marketability of PAC vs Darby was not on the table right now.

IMHO

[Martyn]

2 hours ago, C.S. said:

Yes, but:

1. My posts pre-date that news.

2. PAC's signing and the original rumors about Tony regretting spending so much on certain people came weeks/months before this TNT extension, second show, etc. news.

3. Call my point laughable and subjective all you want, but if PAC left today, AEW would be fine. If he re-joined WWE/NXT tomorrow, he would not be a difference-maker. Losing MJF, Sammy Guevara, Darby Allin, etc. would be felt more. Personality, charisma, and character > movez any day of the week. PAC's first official AEW match was delayed for months, and AEW still did just fine without him, which is all the proof you need that he's just another cog in the wheel. PAC is being used sort of like Drew McIntyre in WWE (not a perfect example, but close enough), which is a good way to use him. 

Anyway, I've said all I have to say about PAC. (For this week, at least.) Movez fans will continue to adore him. I will continue to be bored with his staggering lack of charisma, personality, character, and starpower. We'll all continue to hopefully enjoy most of what AEW has to offer. Most importantly, we'll all continue to be a united front in our dislike of The Dark Order and The Nightmare Collective.  

 1. If I am not mistaken, its a thread about Dynamite from 01/15. AEW/TNT announced its extension before that Bash at the Beach episode.

2. Any source of those rumours? I am following the product since the beginning and never heard about Khan regreting anything. 

3. AEW would be fine even if The Young Bucks or Kenny Omega would have left. Its about the idea behind this brand first and foremost and the only real difference maker is Chris Jericho. Maybe we are watching a different guy, but PAC does have a personality and charisma. Hes got that Chris Benoit/Katsuyori Shibata vibe, where he looks and carries himself like a wrestler and maybe doesnt sings ballads like The Rock, but can get the job done on the microphone. His in ring is always spot on and consistent. That match with Darby Allin was fantastic and its not just about the movezzz. He can be a pretty good draw as well - his match w/Ospreay at Revolution Pro High Stakes 2019 sold out the York Hall in 1,5 hours which never happend before and theyve booked The Elite, Okada, Tanahashi, Naito and the rest at their peaks. 

[SirEdger]

8 hours ago, Martyn said:

Have you heard the news about Dynamite being extended until the end of 2023 with a lock of staying there until the end of 2024 on a renegotiated and much bigger budget? Per last issue of WON, AEW with all those deals in place, is the second most profitable company in the world. Grossing even more than what New Japan does. Therefore, money isnt really an issue. Of course, its not like they can throw money left and right, but they do have the resources to keep guys like PAC. Your point about him *not* being a star is laughable and subjective. 

 

Marty Scurll did what he thought is the best for him and the company he worked for. He does make a difference in ROH and is more needed there than anywhere else at the moment. AEW shouldnt really add plenty of new guys before they elevate the current talent over and get another hour on tv later this year. Spending tons of money on a guy you might not really have time for/would take the air time of already signed people, when your own roster still needs development sounds exactly like WWE having hunderds of guys on the contract just for the sake of it and AEW is not like them. Khan said it many times. 

 

I would love to see him in AEW one day, but I am perfectly fine with it if its two/three years from now. They dont need him at this point. 

Didn't Cody hint at adding a midcard title soon? Maybe this will happen some time in 2020.

Quote

Most importantly, we'll all continue to be a united front in our dislike of The Dark Order and The Nightmare Collective.  

YOU DON'T SPEAK FOR ME!!! #JoinDarkOrder

[sek69]

56 minutes ago, SirEdger said:

Didn't Cody hint at adding a midcard title soon? Maybe this will happen some time in 2020.

Yeah he's said he wants to add a secondary title but didn't want to have it be right at the start of the company. Adding a second show and being able to potentially feature more guys seems to be a pretty good time to do it. 

[C.S.]

1 hour ago, Martyn said:

 1. If I am not mistaken, its a thread about Dynamite from 01/15. AEW/TNT announced its extension before that Bash at the Beach episode.

2. Any source of those rumours? I am following the product since the beginning and never heard about Khan regreting anything. 

3. AEW would be fine even if The Young Bucks or Kenny Omega would have left. Its about the idea behind this brand first and foremost and the only real difference maker is Chris Jericho. Maybe we are watching a different guy, but PAC does have a personality and charisma. Hes got that Chris Benoit/Katsuyori Shibata vibe, where he looks and carries himself like a wrestler and maybe doesnt sings ballads like The Rock, but can get the job done on the microphone. His in ring is always spot on and consistent. That match with Darby Allin was fantastic and its not just about the movezzz. He can be a pretty good draw as well - his match w/Ospreay at Revolution Pro High Stakes 2019 sold out the York Hall in 1,5 hours which never happend before and theyve booked The Elite, Okada, Tanahashi, Naito and the rest at their peaks. 

1. I first heard of the TNT extension and second show rumors after Dynamite and my posts. If they were announced before, I missed them.

2. Of course Google is now failing me at the most inopportune time, but the rumor is mentioned here: 

https://www.cagesideseats.com/2019/12/5/20996196/rumor-roundup-vince-mcmahon-loved-lashley-lana-arrest-aew-buyers-remorse-scurll

Quote

Marty Scurll to AEW isn’t a done deal, says Twitter’s rovert. ROH’s offer is allegedly “massive”. Tony Khan regrets some past big money deals and isn’t offering big money right now.

I wish I had something a little less flimsier than that to show you, but it will at least provide proof that the rumor was out there. @rovert's name is attached to it, so maybe he can provide added detail?

3. Because Omega and The Bucks have booked themselves into irrelevancy. I realize there's a fine line they have to tow being EVPs, but my God, Vince Russo couldn't have sabotaged them any worse than they've sabotaged themselves. As for PAC, you make a good point about him being a draw in England. If AEW ever does tour internationally, PAC would be good to have in their back pocket. I'm also not expecting everyone to be The Rock and do realize that charisma comes in many different forms. But PAC, to me, is drier than Melba toast. :\ 

1 hour ago, SirEdger said:

YOU DON'T SPEAK FOR ME!!! #JoinDarkOrder

NEVER!!!

[sek69]

Maybe Tony having more control in booking will mean the Bucks and Kenny will stop being booked as midcarders now? It already seems like Kenny is becoming more of at least an upper midcard guy instead of the geek he was looking like before.