MikeCampbell Posted September 1, 2011 Report Share Posted September 1, 2011 Eric side: He never would have put them on TV without a locked in contract for fear of them pulling a Luger or a Pillman. I dunno about that one, John. Eric was never one to learn from past mistakes, his or others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted September 1, 2011 Report Share Posted September 1, 2011 What examples are there of Eric in the post-Pillman period sending out major stars to the ring with major pushes (as in the core to the entire promotion) without a lockdown full contract? And then not just for a day, but for months after they debuted. Then add in the three months prior to that where they gave Vince notice. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bix Posted September 1, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 1, 2011 Wasn't Flair on TV solely under a letter of intent in early '98? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted September 1, 2011 Report Share Posted September 1, 2011 A letter of intent is a form of contract, especially if goods/services and consideration are transacted. I'm looking at a seven figure check in a big chunk of plastic on my desk that's a check another company cut us because they tried to argue they weren't bound by an LOI. We cleaned their fucking clocks in the case. Now I'm not taking Nash's word that they were working under a "deal memo", LOI or MOU since Nash has a rather long track record of lying his ass off (example: has Nash ever payed that tribute money he promised a decade ago?). But assuming for a minute that he is telling the truth, he was working under a three year LOI/MOU that paid him more than $37,500 a month and for which he'd already: * made numerous appearances for WCW * performed many services for WCW * had been paid / was due to be paid at least $112,500 for You really think Time Warner / Turner lawyers were afraid he'd could walk away and show up on WWF TV? Or that Eric shook in his knees and gave and extra $800K to the two people. This being the same TW/Turner folks who sued Ric for breaking the terms of an LOI? Sure, Ric counter sued... but that was going to end up the same way all of Ric's lawsuits do: he was going to get clocked. This is NASH. Come on fellows... this is the most jaded wrestling website around. We look at wrestlers telling Great Stories and call Bullshit on them every day of the year. NASH. The second biggest signing in the history of WCW... and not only they couldn't close a contract in the 90s days before he debuted, but they couldn't close it for another 90 days? You're being goofy. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ditch Posted September 2, 2011 Report Share Posted September 2, 2011 Meng and Savage appeared after their contracts expired, but that's different than what you're referring to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjh Posted September 2, 2011 Report Share Posted September 2, 2011 I'm not sure if Nash is being entirely honest with the details, but I believe the gist of the story to be true (i.e. WCW were stupid enough to give significant raises to Hall and Nash over the fake Razor Ramon and Diesel angle), because it was mentioned in PowerSlam magazine in the UK at the time. I think this is one of those ridiculous wrestling stories that is actually true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted September 2, 2011 Report Share Posted September 2, 2011 "Kevin Nash and Scott Hall knew nothing of this angle, finding out amidst a ton of commotion within wrestling while appearing on Friday night at the WCW house show in Shreveport. There is no loophole in the respective contracts which have more than two years left nor have their (sic) been any talks of them rejoining the WWF." -Dave Meltzer, 09/16/96 WON Please don't make me keep reading the WON's and Torches from this period of time because the WWF is so batshit crazy desperate it's painful to ready. It was funny at the time to watch and read Vince lose his mind, but it's no more entertaining on re-read than the collapse of WCW. Can we put Nash's ass talking to bed? John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Sorrow Posted September 2, 2011 Report Share Posted September 2, 2011 " the WWF is so batshit crazy desperate it's painful to read. It was funny at the time to watch and read Vince lose his mind, but it's no more entertaining on re-read than the collapse of WCW. John Oh, I disagree. I LOVED watching Vince scramble and try anything to compete with WCW at that time. And I still enjoy it, as I re-watched most of it recently. All of a sudden Vince is having Cornette shoot, all sorts of wild ideas are being tried, the NWA "invasion", the whole suddenly recognizing the rest of the wrestling world, the ECW stuff, and when some of the shit began sticking to the wall seeing the evolution at the time was a blast. And the stuff that was shit still cracks me up. I still want to know who convinced Vince that an NWA "Invasion" was gonna be competitive with the NWO just because the NWA was a real company. My favorite rebooting of characters was the Godwinns. When they started just wearing overalls, and dropped the goofy shit? They were fucking bad ass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjh Posted September 2, 2011 Report Share Posted September 2, 2011 "Kevin Nash and Scott Hall knew nothing of this angle, finding out amidst a ton of commotion within wrestling while appearing on Friday night at the WCW house show in Shreveport. There is no loophole in the respective contracts which have more than two years left nor have their (sic) been any talks of them rejoining the WWF." -Dave Meltzer, 09/16/96 WON That's the point, ATM Eric was so stupid he tossed Nash and Hall a load of cash their way to keep them happy, even though there was no legal way possible for them to turn up on Raw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Posted September 2, 2011 Report Share Posted September 2, 2011 FWIW, Nash did an interview with some radio station in Scotland (parts of it are very easy to search for on YouTube; I'd link it if I had access right now but I don't) and there was a certain point where he claimed he and Hall signed for five years right off the bat. His stories are, to put it nicely, often very inconsistent. (Hey, he fully admits to partying his ass off in WCW, perhaps it's one of many factors.) One thing I wondered, though: When did his final contract in WCW actually end? I'm thinking of the one Vince didn't want to bring in when he made the purchase. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjh Posted September 2, 2011 Report Share Posted September 2, 2011 According to the Torch archives, Nash's last WCW contract expired early 2002. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted September 2, 2011 Report Share Posted September 2, 2011 "Kevin Nash and Scott Hall knew nothing of this angle, finding out amidst a ton of commotion within wrestling while appearing on Friday night at the WCW house show in Shreveport. There is no loophole in the respective contracts which have more than two years left nor have their (sic) been any talks of them rejoining the WWF." -Dave Meltzer, 09/16/96 WON That's the point, ATM Eric was so stupid he tossed Nash and Hall a load of cash their way to keep them happy, even though there was no legal way possible for them to turn up on Raw. Except I didn't find it in the WON. Beats the shit out of me where PowerSlam got it from. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted September 2, 2011 Report Share Posted September 2, 2011 According to the Torch archives, Nash's last WCW contract expired early 2002. Yeah. Nash was one of the guys who wouldn't take the buyout for a % of what remained on his contract. Milk it until it ended, then see if he could get into the WWE for another payday. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artDDP Posted September 3, 2011 Report Share Posted September 3, 2011 Did Vince really think turning Jim Ross heel would help business or was sticking him with an angle that was destined to fail some sort of rib? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted September 3, 2011 Report Share Posted September 3, 2011 I can't remember what thread it was in, but we were talking about Davey Boy Smith being the first one to get a guaranteed deal in the WWF. "I believe that Mark Henry's deal is a ten year contract at a $250,000 per year downside guarantee. He isn't the only person that's been ofered a 10-year deal and most of the high level wrestlers are getting $250,000 per downside guarantees." -09/02/96 WON Dave then goes on to recommend folks over 35 to take it, and guys under to sign shorter because salaries are likely to escalate. Dave has the story on DBS signing a guaranteed contract the *next* WON. As of the 9/2/96 WON, Dave reported that he hadn't heard of DBS signing. So DBS clearly was one of the people being offered guarantees, but hardly the only one. What he signed as a five-year deal with $250K downside... which is consistent with what Dave said was getting offered to a number of wrestlers the issue before. Davey's probably is just remembered the most because he was practially in WCW as #5 of the nWo, and his contract issues got more press. Other people's didn't get as much. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted September 3, 2011 Report Share Posted September 3, 2011 Did Vince really think turning Jim Ross heel would help business or was sticking him with an angle that was destined to fail some sort of rib? I think for a brief time it seemed like Vince thought there could be some business there, but once it was clear there wasn't it was the start of the now hallowed tradition of Vince getting off on humiliating JR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cm funk Posted September 9, 2011 Report Share Posted September 9, 2011 Nash has told a story over the years about how Bret coming in allowed him and Hall to renegotiate for more money.....something about how they had a clause guaranteeing they be the next highest paid guys after Hogan. Any truth to this or more BS? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted September 9, 2011 Report Share Posted September 9, 2011 What he said was that Hall and Nash had favored nation clauses. Bret got a better deal than they did. Bischoff came to them and said he couldn't pay them what he was paying Bret, but he could give them raises. Pretty sure the WON has confirmed this too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeCampbell Posted September 9, 2011 Report Share Posted September 9, 2011 Did Vince really think turning Jim Ross heel would help business or was sticking him with an angle that was destined to fail some sort of rib? I think for a brief time it seemed like Vince thought there could be some business there, but once it was clear there wasn't it was the start of the now hallowed tradition of Vince getting off on humiliating JR. I would guess that Vince hoped that a "shoot" angle, like JR lashing out for Vince firing him twice, would spark interest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Sorrow Posted December 9, 2012 Report Share Posted December 9, 2012 Not so much a con, but I love it. Jerry Lee Ralph was a Memphis mainstay, and I guess he used to tell people he was King Kong Bundy. Live and die with the gimmick, man. RIP Former pro wrestler passes away Dec 8, 2012 - by Steve Gerweck 0 Jerry Lee Ralph – age 53 passed away Friday, December 7, 2012. Jerry was born in Nashville, Tennessee Monday, February 2, 1959 to the late Russell Lee and Eunice Pauline Clouse Ralph. Retired Correctional Officer from the Tennessee Dept. of Corrections in 2003 and a former professional wrestler; (aka: The Executioner, Intern, Masked Assassin #1, Super Star, Dungeon Master and King Kong Bundy ); he is survived by his son, Justin R. Ralph, Sr.; sisters, Brenda Boles and Carolyn Cothran; brother, Jeffrey Ralph; grandchildren Justin R. Ralph, Jr. and Sierra Mae Ralph. Funeral services will be 12:00 Monday, December 10, 2012 in the chapel of Forest Lawn Funeral Home, Pastor Paul Baggett officiating. Burial will be in Old Beech Cemetery, Hendersonville. Family and friends will gather for a visitation Sunday, December 9, 2012 from 1:00 unitil 8:00 at Forest Lawn Funeral Home 1150 S. Dickerson Rd. Goodlettsville, TN 37072. source: http://obits.dignitymemorial.com/dignity-m...amp;mid=5334326 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueminister Posted December 9, 2012 Report Share Posted December 9, 2012 The Intern and The Dungeon Master Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
...TG Posted September 6, 2015 Report Share Posted September 6, 2015 This was great reading, but more than a little depressing. What is it about this business that breeds the conmen in droves? I had completely forgotten about the Lawler/USWA stuff. I'd love to read a Robert Caro-style biography scraping the dirt on that guy. Or Vince, or Watts, or any other major figure in wrestling world for that matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WingedEagle Posted September 6, 2015 Report Share Posted September 6, 2015 Wow, a Caro biography on Vince or any territory, anything wrestling related would be mind blowing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fakeplastictrees Posted September 7, 2015 Report Share Posted September 7, 2015 What is it about this business that breeds the conmen in droves? Pro wrestling by its very nature in a con. Speaking carny (carnival) and the whole STEPRIGHTUPFOLKS~! mentality passes down from person-to-person. Im not surprised its all fucked, however the internet has really helped pro wrestling step outside of the bullshit age. Guys/Girls are no longer living the gimmick outside of work (except Teddy Hart), no one is faking injuries/hosptistays (except for HHH), or pretending that they have no positive relations with heels/faces depending on the already established dynamic. Furthermore, the business isn't pretending that being on the road 300 plus days a year with no time off makes you 'tough', that chairshots to the back are for pussies and real mean take it to the head, WWE and other companies are a bit more aware of concussions, drug use, etc. and take steps (mileage will vary) to ensure there is not another Benoit situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted September 11, 2015 Report Share Posted September 11, 2015 Yeah, this thread was intended to be a celebration of the con, not a condemning of it. It's funny that now when someone actually gets real heat over something, the wrestler response is, "You know this is not real, right?" They don't even want the heat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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