Is the empire crumbling before our eyes?

[sek69]

Apparently she asked for her release, I guess being booked to be a mewling baby in the corner after being pummeled by Almighty Charlotte didn't work for her. 

[sek69]

6 minutes ago, Coffey said:

Who knew that Nick Khan & Vince McMahon, Jr. didn't like cake? I mean, Vince is pretty old, so I reckon I can see that... but damn. How can you not market Toni Storm & her look in modern society?

Also I had no faith anyone with pull in WWE would have any idea how to market her. To Vince, "modern society" is somewhere around 1998.

[Coffey]

2 minutes ago, sek69 said:

Also I had no faith anyone with pull in WWE would have any idea how to market her. To Vince, "modern society" is somewhere around 1998.

This is probably true but they just came out with that statement that they were looking for younger, more attractive women. Toni is 26 & beautiful, so not sure exactly what they're actually looking for. Is 26 too old for WWE standards now?

I mean, if she asked for her release, it's obviously because she's disgruntled with how she's been used, right? So this isn't just an overnight WWE blunder. 

If I had to sign 10 female pro wrestlers right now from anywhere in the world, I think Toni Storm would be in my top 10. So this is lunacy to me. 

[sek69]

Also she just did the usual fawning "I've never been more me than on the main roster" interview on Ryan "Totally not a WWE Shill" Satin's show so that's another layer of LOLs. 

[sek69]

Britt already out here posting Toni Storm pics on Twitter, lol

[El-P]

Good for her. Totally underutilized, WWE never got her (I know, they don't get jackshit), Toni Storm is ALL ELITE sooner than later, please.

26 minutes ago, Coffey said:

Toni is 26 & beautiful, so not sure exactly what they're actually looking for. Is 26 too old for WWE standards now?

Not to mention she can fucking work too.

And yes, 26 is too old apparently since the requisite to be signed to NXT is 25 at most. For women only though, of course.

And really, they also have released Scarlett Bordeaux who is as stunning as it gets (and can work, and can be a great character), but hey, the old granny is 30 years old. What a joke. 

So yeah, please Toni Storm to AEW to kickstart 2022 with a bang.

[KawadaSmile]

39 minutes ago, Coffey said:

Who knew that Nick Khan & Vince McMahon, Jr. didn't like cake? I mean, Vince is pretty old, so I reckon I can see that... but damn. How can you not market Toni Storm & her look in modern society?

I dunno, man. They had Mr. Ass Man Billy Gunn working there up until 2014. No way they didn't know what assets they had in Toni.

But yeah, working with Charlotte is a death sentence, directly or indirectly.

[sek69]

Dave confirming Tony quit, and Fightful updated their story to say folks in WWE were blindsided by her asking to leave, but also that WWE isn't in a position to deny anyone requesting a release since they've been using "budget cuts" as an excuse for all their firings. 

[sek69]

At this point I'm pretty much picturing Vince telling her that next week Charlotte would be dumping dog food on her and Toni just like "fuck this, I'm out".

[NintendoLogic]

Charlotte is the female Roman. Getting her over at all costs is the goal and everyone else has to be sacrificed along the way. Toni also had the accent working against her. Kevin Dunn probably sent her to catering as soon as he heard her speak.

[KawadaSmile]

She is what people thought Roman was back in 2015-2016. Braun, Finn, Seth pretty much all got one up on Roman and were elevated at one point or another.

And I know bubba Logic doesn't like Reigns, but he *never* actively tried to sandbag a title match like Char did against Carmella a while ago. There are some glaring differences and all of them make Flair look worse in comparison.

[sek69]

Charlotte's in a category all her own at this point. Roman at least elevated others and had good matches with everyone. This isn't even like reign of death Hunter, at least he seemed to honestly think his 45 minute NWA title homage matches were  good and no one ever got hurt. Charlotte is out here big footing everyone and stiffing half of them while doing it. 

[C.S.]

Imagine being so senile and stuck in the bubble that you have no clue what a major asset Toni Storm could be.

Then again, she was spectacularly wasted in NXT troo, so can't just blame Vince, Bruce, and Dunn on this one.

[Big Pete]

I don't know if Toni ever lived up to her potential after winning the 2018 Mae Young Classic. She was over on NXT UK as one of the flag bearers of the show but she didn't really stand out and by the time she came to the States whatever momentum she had was gone. NXT had already moved onto Raquel and Toni wasn't the same performer as before.

The worm did appear to be turning on SmackDown and she did force Charlotte who is being pushed as the greatest ever to resort to an inside cradle to put her away. It will be interesting to see what she does next and whether she returns to Stardom or actually does try to break out in the States.

[donsem43]

I'm biased but she should return to Stardom. It's a buyer's market with a flood of new people in AEW so unless they give her a dollar number that makes it worth it to her she'd be better off waiting till they need fresh talent. Plus, Stardom has a growing profile in the West that will keep her name out there. Not to mention that it would probably a great way to clear her head and refocus her career (and stay off of social media to.)

[sek69]

Word now is she worked her match, bought herself a ticket home and peace'd out without really saying anything to anyone.  I love it, after all the stories of Stockholm syndrome-brained WWE people who stick with a company that is obviously not a good place for them, she just straight up pulls an Office Space and decides she's not going to go to work at a shit job anymore.

 

[Jesse Ewiak]

I mean, it's really not that complicated. 

Between the NIL signings, and all the recent performance center pickups, and NXT 2.0, and with success like Bianca Belair and Charlotte Flair in the women division and other people they're obviously going to push once they get to the main roster like Grayson Waller, Bronn, etc., the message is clear - we're going to make our own products again, and AEW can have all the indy dorks who think they're big stars without any actual proof.  

Yes, if you're a good soldier like Owens & Zayn have them, you'll get treated well, but if you expect anything because you wrestled in Japan or a few hundred people in a building once chanted 'THIS IS AWESOME' after you did a cool spot. But yes, Toni Storm in blonde and beautiful, but they just signed multiple beautiful former college athletes who won't care about the angles they have to do or whatever booking WWE decides to do, but will do what they're told, and as a bonus, in many cases, will have social media following already. 

After all, the Cavinder Twins, who they just signed to an NIL deal, are blonde, young, and have 3.8 million TikTok followers. That's far more important to the WWE than some good matches in STARDOM. Ironically, the NXT Black & Gold Crew can blame AEW for their chances of a push dying - AEW's success was proof to Vince that Triple H's indy squad wsn't anything special, and in his mind, were likely full of themselves. 

Again, why deal w/ indy wrestlers who think they'rre hot shit when you just turned Bianca Belair from basically nobody to one of your bigger stars or when you've got somebody like Bron who is the type they like, and doesn't think they know how to work a match because Meltzer gave them some good ratings?  

[sek69]

Funny thing is I doubt any of these NIL signings will ever actually set foot in the PC, at least not the ones they are hyping. Like there's no fucking way the Cavinder Twins are going to put up with WWE and Vince's bullshit when they have that kind of social media following.  Most college athletes are signing tons of these NIL deals too so if WWE thinks they are anything more than a side hustle for these kids they are going to be in for a rude awakening.

Plus judging by what we're seeing in NXT 2.0 it's going to be a long while before any of the women there are anywhere close to ready. They got lucky with Bianca being a freak athlete who seems to be a natural at everything she tries, because they've been shit at making any women stars since the Horsewomen era. 

Making their own product certainly makes sense in a cost-benefit scenario, but it hardly makes good business sense when you've managed to let an upstart company get closer than anyone has in decades by telling logical stories and having great matches and your idea to counter that is green rookies and booking that gets thrown in the trash every Monday afternoon.

[El-P]

1 hour ago, Jesse Ewiak said:

Again, why deal w/ indy wrestlers who think they'rre hot shit when you just turned Bianca Belair from basically nobody to one of your bigger stars or when you've got somebody like Bron who is the type they like, and doesn't think they know how to work a match because Meltzer gave them some good ratings?  

Bianca BeLair has already been damaged. And they got lucky with her. New girls in NXT2.0 are awful thus far. Tay Conti stayed in their system for years and did not amount to zilch until she left and met with QT and Dustin. Their track record of training people from scratch is *awful* (how many years has the PC been a thing already ?) and their ability of creating new stars has been non-existant for 15 years. Why that would change because they signed a bunch of big guys and pretty girls from colleges, many of whom probably never reaching the main roster anyway ? 

Also, Meltz is praising Bron like there's no tomorrow. Cursed. Also, he's not just some guy out of college. He's born in a wrestling family (so is Von Wagner, but so was Erik Watts).

[El-P]

1 hour ago, sek69 said:

Like there's no fucking way the Cavinder Twins are going to put up with WWE and Vince's bullshit when they have that kind of social media following.

WWE needs the Cavinder Twins to reach a younger audience. Cavinder Twins don't need WWE to make shitloads of money already. The new generation of influencers use brands to their advantage. They are not gonna be brainwashed by the "WWE Dream" unless they are super WWE fans to begin with. And we know that there aren't a lot of *young* super WWE fans.

[gonzalez]

1 hour ago, sek69 said:

Making their own product certainly makes sense in a cost-benefit scenario,

I think ultimately that style has not benefited whatsoever. If AEW ever comes upon that crossroads, I hope they never decide to create their own PC. It’s ultimately a time waster, and a loss leader. Plucking talent from the regional indie scene is the most ideal way to do it. Or setup certain independent companies as feeder systems, like the WWE used to do it before they decided to go in it all alone.

Only way a PC works if it was something as tight knit as the New Japan’s dojo, but that’s only possible through weird Japanese labor laws. Most of those guys are probably not paid great, and are pretty much gofers for two, or three years of being put through the ringer.

[strobogo]

I predicted when Toni got called up that they'd push her hard for a few weeks and then Vince would decide she didn't have the right look and stop using her. Didn't think she'd be out so quick, though. It will be a good thing for all companies and talent if WWE performers start realizing their worth and leaving, including WWE, as it will force them to actually try to give their own talent something to work with to keep them happy.

[gonzalez]

With how corporate centric it’s become, that won’t happen. Unless these deals completely fall through, the WWE’s path is clear to become a pure content driven IP company that will sell to the highest bidder. 

[NintendoLogic]

12 hours ago, Big Pete said:

The worm did appear to be turning on SmackDown and she did force Charlotte who is being pushed as the greatest ever to resort to an inside cradle to put her away. It will be interesting to see what she does next and whether she returns to Stardom or actually does try to break out in the States.

Charlotte didn't "resort to" an inside cradle. She reversed Toni's cradle into one of her own. In fact, the opposite is closer to the truth. Toni was the one resorting to desperation pin attempts because Charlotte was kicking her ass at will. Of course, that led to Charlotte beating her at her own game. It was quite the impressive demolition of a babyface challenger.

And for the record, I don't dislike Roman and would love to see him in a promotion that wasn't a sinking ship. I just don't buy into him as the undisputed top guy. If you told me a year ago that I'd be way more into Kenny Omega as a worker and performer in a year's time, I would've said you were nuts. But here we are.

[Al]

Again, why deal w/ indy wrestlers who think they'rre hot shit when you just turned Bianca Belair from basically nobody to one of your bigger stars or when you've got somebody like Bron who is the type they like, and doesn't think they know how to work a match because Meltzer gave them some good ratings?  

I don't necessarily disagree with the assessment. We tend to overrate working ability when it comes to drawing fans, especially casual fans. But the advantage wrestlers with indy backgrounds have over raw PC trainees is that the indy wrestlers are more likely to tolerate the grind because they've already done it.