The Jim Ross Is A Grouchy Hateful Vile Human Being thread

[Loss]

I went back and read tweets and I'm quite confused. Is this about Scott Williams or possibly drunk commentary? And what does one have to do with the other?

[The Thread Killer]

So let me get this straight...

 

Issue #1

 

Observer contributor, reporter and author Scott Williams apparently either co-wrote or ghost wrote JR's autobiography. I guess his wife got wind of a rumor that since Mr. Williams passed away last August, Jim Ross was planning on removing his name (and credit) from the cover of the book. A leaked version of the cover seems to bear that rumor out. The allegation is the widow Williams tried to contact Jim Ross about this, but JR never got back to her despite her repeated attempts.

 

Jim Ross claims this isn't true and that Scott Williams name will be on the cover of the book. People defending JR are pointing out that the book hasn't come out yet, so there is no proof it was ever going to happen, based solely on graphics online. Also, JR has been a little busy lately doing his one man show, his weekly podcast, going to England to work for WWE, working for AXS, and oh yeah...his wife died not that long ago and he himself has openly admitted that he is basically working himself 24/7 to keep from thinking about it.

 

Issue #2

 

Despite the fact that Kevin Kelly and Don Callis work for New Japan World and were at the G1 in the USA shows, for some reason New Japan World decided to air the shows using the AXS commentary team of JR and Josh Barnett. Not only are JR and Barnett not nearly as familiar with the product as Kelly and Callis, they probably aren't as good a team. A lot of people claim that JR and Barnett did a shitty job on commentary - including some of the talent - and some people are alleging JR was drunk on the air. It is a fact that JR got same names wrong and neither he nor Barnett knew any of the ongoing storylines in NJPW.

 

Dave Meltzer came to JR's defense saying that New Japan doesn't do pre-production meetings for their English announce teams, so JR and Barnett were flying blind. People are criticizing that defense, because JR tweeted pictures of his notes before the show, which included the tournament brackets and pictures of the wrestlers with their names labelled. Of course, having some pictures and tournament brackets doesn't mean you're going to know all the different angles going in, certainly not as well as the New Japan World Team would.

 

Conclusion...

 

The two issues obviously don't have anything to do with each other, not one little bit. Some people really don't like Jim Ross, and they especially don't seem to like the fact that Dave Meltzer likes Jim Ross. A lot of these people will criticize JR when the opportunity presents itself, which it has here.

 

I suppose if you want to criticize Jim Ross, you can easily say:

 

- It looked like Jim Ross was going to deny Scott Williams credit for his autobiography, based on the reported rumors, leaked cover and fact that he didn't answer emails about it.

 

and

 

- Jim Ross did a lousy job calling the New Japan show and he might have been drunk.

 

However, you can also easily say that...

 

- You can't prove Ross was going to deny Scott Williams credit, because the book itself isn't out yet and Jim Ross has an excuse for being too busy to answer his emails

 

and

 

- JR might have had some pictures and brackets, but he certainly didn't have the experience and familiarity with the product that Kelly and Callis do. He could never be expected to do as good a job as they would. The fault for that partially lies with the people who made the decision to put him out there, not Kelly and Callis. Also, Josh Barnett was hardly doing a great job either. I saw both nights. I thought the commentary was weak and JR and Barnett sounded unfamiliar with the product, but he didn't sound drunk to me. I went into that show hoping to hear Kelly and Callis. (Whoever thought I'd want to hear Kevin Kelly over Jim Ross?!) I'm surprised that since JR is back with WWE that he was even able to call that show to begin with.

 

Bix may have some legit points, and he may not. But he certainly does come across like he has an agenda and is on the attack, based on his Twitter feed.

[El-P]

JR used to mix Chris Jericho and Chris Benoit in 2000. It's not like he needs to be drunk or to call a product he's not familiar with to mix up stuff.

 

Timing-wise, well, not so great I guess.

[sek69]

There seems to be pretty solid proof that Scott Williams' name was not going to be on the book and JR claiming ignorance comes off a little weaksauce since the book was his baby for a long time.

 

The announcing thing seems like a no-win for him since of course he wouldn't be as aware of things as the regular team, and having them there came off as a passive-aggressive dick move by New Japan. Again, there seems to be proof that JR did in fact have material to study up on despite claims to the contrary.

 

 

tl;dr no one is coming off especially great here

[The Thread Killer]

Here's what I don't get. Why did New Japan World use the JR/Barnett commentary team at all for their broadcast? Aren't the AXS show and New Japan World two totally separate deals? Since Kelly and Callis were there anyhow, I don't see why they couldn't have called the shows for the streaming service and let JR and Barnett call the shows for AXS. I listen to Killing the Town with Lance Storm and Don "Cyrus" Callis religiously, and leading up to those shows, it sure sounded like Callis thought he was calling the shows for New Japan World.

[Coffey]

I remember thinking that Don Callis was pretty good back in the ECW on TNN days too. He surprises me in New Japan. I've liked him more than I initially thought I would. Wasn't he away from wrestling for a pretty lengthy tenure of time? I'm glad he's back.

[sek69]

The version of night two that went up on NJPW World was the same version that aired on AXS the next week. If I'm making guesses here I'd say AXS wanted to use JR as much as possible since they know WWE won't let him renew his deal when runs out.

[The Thread Killer]

I remember thinking that Don Callis was pretty good back in the ECW on TNN days too. He surprises me in New Japan. I've liked him more than I initially thought I would. Wasn't he away from wrestling for a pretty lengthy tenure of time? I'm glad he's back.

 

Don Callis is a fascinating guy. He's actually incredibly intelligent - like, he's a member of Mensa. I honestly believe he got released from the WWF during the attitude era because his intelligence intimidated people. I'm not the only person who thinks that, I know Mick Foley has said the same thing.

 

After ECW went under he had a good run in TNA as their authority figure, but he quit TNA to get his MBA and was out of the business entirely and was working as an International Management and Business Professor at the University of Manitoba. (He still lives in Winnipeg.) He ended up going on Jericho's podcast and was so entertaining telling the story of his career in wrestling that he ended up getting a bunch of calls to be on other podcasts, and landed the New Japan commentary gig out of that. If you ever have time, you should listen to his interview on Talk is Jericho, it's really interesting. And as I have said elsewhere numerous times, his weekly podcast with Lance Storm is hilarious and pretty insightful as well.

[Loss]

Here's what I don't get. Why did New Japan World use the JR/Barnett commentary team at all for their broadcast? Aren't the AXS show and New Japan World two totally separate deals? Since Kelly and Callis were there anyhow, I don't see why they couldn't have called the shows for the streaming service and let JR and Barnett call the shows for AXS. I listen to Killing the Town with Lance Storm and Don "Cyrus" Callis religiously, and leading up to those shows, it sure sounded like Callis thought he was calling the shows for New Japan World.

 

I don't know about Barnett, but I'm sure they see JR as a draw.

[hammerva]

 

I remember thinking that Don Callis was pretty good back in the ECW on TNN days too. He surprises me in New Japan. I've liked him more than I initially thought I would. Wasn't he away from wrestling for a pretty lengthy tenure of time? I'm glad he's back.

 

Don Callis is a fascinating guy. He's actually incredibly intelligent - like, he's a member of Mensa. I honestly believe he got released from the WWF during the attitude era because his intelligence intimidated people. I'm not the only person who thinks that, I know Mick Foley has said the same thing.

 

 

 

 

I don't know if it was that they intimidated people or they pissed them off because Callis had no problems telling people what he thought was smart and what was bullshit. For a guy in 1997 with no WWF stroke that was a bad combination

[C.S.]

I'm not as well-versed on this situation as others, but a few random thoughts:

 

- J.R. and Barnett are bigger draws than "Hermie" and "The Jackal." Really not tough to understand why NJPW made that decision. I heard the Bucks weren't happy with Barnett "burying" them on commentary though.

 

- Not having time to e-mail someone back would ordinarily sound like bullshit to me, but even J.R.'s website's blog and Q&A haven't been updated recently. I guess the answer depends on when Scott E. Williams' widow sent the e-mail.

 

- Are we sure J.R. didn't start over with another author after Scott E. Williams passed away? Paul O'Brien is listed as the co-author now, and it would seem highly unusual to have two co-authors. (I realize Flair's book did, but that's the exception, not the rule.) Edit: After reading the tweets, it seems J.R. is now promising Williams will be on the cover for helping him with the book early on. Whether that's because Bix got on his case, I don't know.

 

 

Edit: Just saw this tweet.

 

'Bad Boy' Tama Tonga‏Verified account @Tama_Tonga

 

Commentating sucked at the #G1Special..at least @realkevinkelly knows the storylines and OUR F#CKING NAMES

 

He's not wrong, but he sounds like an unprofessional ass IMO.

 

That's the problem with wrestling these days. Too many immature man-child types (Tama Tonga, Alberto, etc.) and not any honest-to-goodness grown-ups.

 

Tama Tonga should change his name to Tama Toddler.

[Cox]

Edit: Just saw this tweet.

 

'Bad Boy' Tama Tonga‏Verified account @Tama_Tonga

 

Commentating sucked at the #G1Special..at least @realkevinkelly knows the storylines and OUR F#CKING NAMES

 

He's not wrong, but he sounds like an unprofessional ass IMO.

 

That's the problem with wrestling these days. Too many immature man-child types (Tama Tonga, Alberto, etc.) and not any honest-to-goodness grown-ups.

 

Tama Tonga should change his name to Tama Toddler.

 

Professionalism goes both ways. Jim Ross, who has been calling wrestling matches since before I was born, was such a pro that he continuously messed up names (including Tama Tonga's). I can certainly understand Tonga's frustration since this was one of his big breaks in the US and the guy calling the match couldn't even say his name correctly.

[sek69]

Watching night 2 on NJPW World and while JR was fine on commentary, he kept mentioning the people who were mad at him from the previous night to the point of it starting to get a little obnoxious. It was coming off as if he felt he was being picked on for no reason and not because he was making rookie mistakes at his job.

 

Also yes, it's obvious why AXS wanted to use their guys on commentary, but flying in Kelly and Callis to do nothing but remind the boys they won't be calling their matches is a puzzling move.

[C.S.]

Professionalism goes both ways. Jim Ross, who has been calling wrestling matches since before I was born, was such a pro that he continuously messed up names (including Tama Tonga's). I can certainly understand Tonga's frustration since this was one of his big breaks in the US and the guy calling the match couldn't even say his name correctly.

 

I get all of that - I really do. But an adult handles his business like a professional. A child goes on Twitter and throws a tantrum. I have absolutely no respect for the way Tonga went about it. Maybe it's just a sore spot with me, but I'm getting REALLY tired of unprofessional toddlers like Tama Tonga, Alberto El Patron, etc. constantly running their mouths like giant 6-year-olds. I realize it's just wrestling and almost everyone's in a perpetual state of arrested development, but it gets tiring. Would anyone else be able to act this way in their job/career? No.

[sek69]

Well it's no secret that pro wrestling is a different beast than practically every other field of employment other than the porn industry.

[C.S.]

Well it's no secret that pro wrestling is a different beast than practically every other field of employment other than the porn industry.

 

Indeed, and I don't mind juvenile locker room behavior if it's going to somehow draw money somewhere. This definitely won't, and neither will Alberto's constant stupidity. Granted, I'm sure Alberto thinks being a loud-mouthed drunken dickhead will expose more people to GFW, but I don't see any of his babbling nonsense actually translating into viewers. If anything, it's only turning people off.

[hammerva]

So what should he actually do? Tuck his tail between his legs and say "thanks JR for commentary and please remember my name the next time". Maybe wrestlers doing things like this constantly to people with legacy in the business who badly screw up is one of the reason why they feel no need to explain/justify when they do screw up.

 

Comparing this to Del Rio makes no sense to me. Alberto caused most of the problems in his professional and personal life. Unless Tama told JR his name wrong then it isn't even close.

[MFoy]

 

Professionalism goes both ways. Jim Ross, who has been calling wrestling matches since before I was born, was such a pro that he continuously messed up names (including Tama Tonga's). I can certainly understand Tonga's frustration since this was one of his big breaks in the US and the guy calling the match couldn't even say his name correctly.

 

I get all of that - I really do. But an adult handles his business like a professional. A child goes on Twitter and throws a tantrum. I have absolutely no respect for the way Tonga went about it. Maybe it's just a sore spot with me, but I'm getting REALLY tired of unprofessional toddlers like Tama Tonga, Alberto El Patron, etc. constantly running their mouths like giant 6-year-olds. I realize it's just wrestling and almost everyone's in a perpetual state of arrested development, but it gets tiring. Would anyone else be able to act this way in their job/career? No.

 

Have you followed the news in 2017? It's definitely not just wrestling. This is how the world is now, for better or for worse. (It's for worse, but you can't point the finger at wrestlers or wrestling).

[C.S.]

So what should he actually do? Tuck his tail between his legs and say "thanks JR for commentary and please remember my name the next time". Maybe wrestlers doing things like this constantly to people with legacy in the business who badly screw up is one of the reason why they feel no need to explain/justify when they do screw up.

 

Comparing this to Del Rio makes no sense to me. Alberto caused most of the problems in his professional and personal life. Unless Tama told JR his name wrong then it isn't even close.

 

The situations are completely different, and Alberto is indeed 100x worse, but the man-child behavior is the same for both at the core.

 

Instead of going on Twitter like a toddler, Tama could have talked to the office, talked to J.R. privately, or any other number of things an adult would do to rectify a professional situation.

 

Have you followed the news in 2017? It's definitely not just wrestling. This is how the world is now, for better or for worse. (It's for worse, but you can't point the finger at wrestlers or wrestling).

 

Well, I didn't really want to get into politics here - even if it's sort of on-topic because of Trump's history with WWE, status as a WWE HOFer, etc.

 

But yes, celebrities do the same thing too. They're another group of Peter Pans though.

 

My point is, Joe Sixpack with the 9 to 5 job isn't rambling about his co-worker on Twitter (and if he is, there will be actual repercussions for his actions).

[Dewar]

 

I remember thinking that Don Callis was pretty good back in the ECW on TNN days too. He surprises me in New Japan. I've liked him more than I initially thought I would. Wasn't he away from wrestling for a pretty lengthy tenure of time? I'm glad he's back.

 

Don Callis is a fascinating guy. He's actually incredibly intelligent - like, he's a member of Mensa. I honestly believe he got released from the WWF during the attitude era because his intelligence intimidated people. I'm not the only person who thinks that, I know Mick Foley has said the same thing.

 

After ECW went under he had a good run in TNA as their authority figure, but he quit TNA to get his MBA and was out of the business entirely and was working as an International Management and Business Professor at the University of Manitoba. (He still lives in Winnipeg.) He ended up going on Jericho's podcast and was so entertaining telling the story of his career in wrestling that he ended up getting a bunch of calls to be on other podcasts, and landed the New Japan commentary gig out of that. If you ever have time, you should listen to his interview on Talk is Jericho, it's really interesting. And as I have said elsewhere numerous times, his weekly podcast with Lance Storm is hilarious and pretty insightful as well.

 

 

 

 

He works for the Province of Manitoba, and teaches a class at the U of M in his "spare" time. He used to cut promos on local shows about WWF firing him because they thought he was an asshole.

 

I recall him mentioning on the podcast that he had been invited to attend a creative meeting with the WWF, and he did not attend. With his previous booking experience, and knowledge of running the television tapings for Tony Condello, I was suprised to hear he would turn that opportunity down.

 

Edit: His Wikipedia page says he has been married to three actresses and a porn star. I don't remember him ever saying anything about being married, but I do remember he used to date a local Hooters waitress, because he would come pick her up from work when her shift was done.

[The Thread Killer]

He was a guest on Austin's podcast this past week, and he talks about that. While with the WWF he was apparently asked three times to move to Connecticut and work for the office writing TV, but he didn't want to so he turned it down. He mentioned that "you know what happens when you say no to them." He mentioned that he already had heat for refusing to cut his hair, too.

[Loss]

Ross did call his first New Japan show in 2015, so one has to wonder at what point he stops getting leeway for not knowing details about the wrestlers, their backgrounds and the nuances of their in-ring work, especially when there are so many English-speaking wrestlers and superfans who would be happy to answer any questions he has.

[flyonthewall2983]

Weird they asked him to cut his hair.

[The Thread Killer]

He claims that during the period he managed The Truth Commission they wanted him to have an army style buzzcut, and during the very brief period that he managed the Acolytes, they asked him to get a Mohawk. Not sure what the third time was.

[The Thread Killer]

Having watched all of both nights, I think it should be mentioned that one of the main issues with the commentary is that both JR and Barnett seem to be doing play-by-play. It's annoying as hell, because Barnett calls the action as it happens, move for move, but then tries to shoehorn his comments in as well. You'd think he and JR would have worked that shit out by now, considering how long they've been working together. I always thought it was pretty much commentary 101, that one guy calls the action and the other guy throws in comments with insight and analysis. If it's supposed to be JR calling the action then he needs to give Barnett a slap upside the head, because he was annoying the shit out of me on those shows.