FMKK Posted November 26, 2020 Report Share Posted November 26, 2020 Ric could never pull off a pirouette so gracefully. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirEdger Posted November 26, 2020 Report Share Posted November 26, 2020 Could've Maradona pulled a perfect Flair Flop though? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dav'oh Posted November 27, 2020 Report Share Posted November 27, 2020 Supremely gifted, charismatic and beloved, with massive drug problems leading to a heart explosion? Not afraid to lie cheat steal? Hmmmm...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KawadaSmile Posted November 28, 2020 Author Report Share Posted November 28, 2020 Maradona as Eddie is a great comparison. Both top 5 all time. Roman is awesome. Can't stress this enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KawadaSmile Posted November 28, 2020 Author Report Share Posted November 28, 2020 Also, no one EVER made Roman look as strong as Reigns himself made Drew. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KawadaSmile Posted November 28, 2020 Author Report Share Posted November 28, 2020 They're doing apron brainbusters, cool Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted November 28, 2020 Report Share Posted November 28, 2020 I have been watching South Park S22, and the fact they brought back so many old characters from the "glory days" (remember when Road Dog was wearing South Park T-shirts and Tenta was carrying a Cartman doll ?) definitely made me think about WWE booking (was much better though, some episodes were really funny... others, not so much). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoS Posted November 28, 2020 Report Share Posted November 28, 2020 I don't watch so I have no opinion one way or another, but I am curious to hear what you guys think about this - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirEdger Posted November 28, 2020 Report Share Posted November 28, 2020 Honestly, sometimes it's not about the length of a segment but what you do in them. Just look at Billie Kay since the split of the IIconics. I'm laughing my ass off every time I see her on TV lately and she has about 30 seconds of air time each time. But it works because she maximizes her TV time by getting herself over with her comedic skills. I don't necessarily know if there's a correlation to be made between Sasha's screen time on TV lately and her Mandalorian episode but if you're talking about what she did in those segments in a positive light, that means it works. But I do agree that sometimes, some segments should be tailored to the feud and opponent of the moment. If it calls for longer segments and you know talents can pull it off, go ahead. But sometimes, short and to the point is what works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badlittlekitten Posted November 28, 2020 Report Share Posted November 28, 2020 That's the thing, I don't think Sasha maximises her tv time in the way Billie Kay does. If there were crowds, it feels like with every promo she'd be getting less over. I'm still not convinced Vince is particularly high on Sasha, probably for the same reasons, as all her promos tend to get cut short. Bayley and Bianca Belair seem more like the type Vince would push, with their strong grasp on character work, not Banks and her bad instincts. Switching gears - he's a stupid shithead and it's a struggle to enjoy anything he does, but man, Riddle vs Sheamus is a god damn fucking awesome match-up. Their chemistry is off the charts. It's a joy watching Sheumus boot his face off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KawadaSmile Posted November 28, 2020 Author Report Share Posted November 28, 2020 It's a mixed bag. They should feature their draws more often, even if not every single segment is a home run. Having someone as beloved and as over as Sasha for about 5 minutes seems unproductive, in that regard. Like, I get bubba's argument that sometimes making the best use of your time is the way to go, but despite Billie being HILARIOUS she isn't really the focus of SD. If SmackDown is THE hottest wrestling show at the moment, it's largely due to Banks' feud with Bayley and THE BIG DOG. Not featuring those two seems like a strategic mistake - unless, of course, there were some scheduling conflicts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoS Posted November 28, 2020 Report Share Posted November 28, 2020 52 minutes ago, Badlittlekitten said: That's the thing, I don't think Sasha maximises her tv time in the way Billie Kay does. If there were crowds, it feels like with every promo she'd be getting less over. I'm still not convinced Vince is particularly high on Sasha, probably for the same reasons, as all her promos tend to get cut short. Bayley and Bianca Belair seem more like the type Vince would push, with their strong grasp on character work, not Banks and her bad instincts. I am not sure if this is on Sasha or if her instincts are bad. I think it has to do with all promos being heavily scripted, and WWE sucking ass at scripting babyface promos (and babyfaces in general.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.S. Posted November 28, 2020 Report Share Posted November 28, 2020 Sasha is not a strong mic worker (whether that's because of scripted promos or not, the jury is still out) and she's never been a good babyface, even though the fans absolutely want to cheer her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strummer Posted November 28, 2020 Report Share Posted November 28, 2020 Haven't seen any of this stuff obvs. but for over 5 years people have been swearing Sasha is a great promo but has yet to show this on the main roster. How much time should she be given to prove this? I mean she's shown some glimpses but overall has to be a disappointment on the mic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dav'oh Posted November 29, 2020 Report Share Posted November 29, 2020 Sasha's finishing move kills her for me, and I'm surprised there's so much love for her here, the home of Jumbo and Stan and Ikeda.. With the Bank Statement, ALL FOUR of her opponent's limbs are FREE. She weighs less than my balls (slight exaggeration, yes) and people act like it's an inescapable hold. She's also one of those wrestlers who can't run properly, like Cena and Moxley. No shame in that, we're built for walking, not running - even Usain Bolt needs a running coach - but when old and clunky Natalya is a better sprinter than you, maybe you're not the athlete you think you are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoS Posted November 29, 2020 Report Share Posted November 29, 2020 When has Sasha acted like a big athlete? Her thing is being wrestling-savvy, 'the blueprint' and taking crazy bumps. Most wrestling submissions are hokey, especially if you follow MMA. It wasn't really a big issue with Cena and it isn't an issue here. I mean Undertaker started using a triangle as a finisher and used it in the main event of a WrestleMania and it was so fake, his legs literally would never come near the neck. Jumbo and Stan did not use submissions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NintendoLogic Posted November 29, 2020 Report Share Posted November 29, 2020 Hansen won the AWA title with a Boston crab. Also, I'd argue that Cena's STF (along with the bulk of his offensive arsenal) looking like complete dogshit played a role in driving away fans over the past decade and a half. There's always some creative license involved in pro wrestling, but most of Cena's work was so blatantly fake-looking as to make it impossible to suspend disbelief. That sort of thing can be overlooked if you find a wrestler's personality sufficiently compelling, but when you consider how many fans found him actively repellent, it's no wonder they abandoned WWE in droves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoS Posted November 29, 2020 Report Share Posted November 29, 2020 That's fair. I don't think Sasha's offence looks fake in general though. Maybe the Bank Statement isn't good enough for some fans but as far as her overall offence is concerned, I think it's fine. For example, her strikes are better than Cena's often-comical punches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KawadaSmile Posted November 29, 2020 Author Report Share Posted November 29, 2020 That's kinda crazy to me. Cena was the last of the major draws US pro-wrestling had. Ratings started to plummet around the same time he began to appear less, and the notion that people were driven away by his offense is kinda weird. Look at the biggest players WWE has had: Hogan, Austin, Rock. Can we really say that their offense is any less fake-looking than Cena's? In contrast, Jeff Jarrett probably had one of the sweetest punches of the last 20 years and people didn't really tune in to watch him, be it in WCW or TNA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoS Posted November 29, 2020 Report Share Posted November 29, 2020 3 minutes ago, KawadaSmile said: Look at the biggest players WWE has had: Hogan, Austin, Rock. Can we really say that their offense is any less fake-looking than Cena's? Bad punches off Lou Thesz press aside, I think Austin's offence was good and clearly a couple of levels above the others you mentioned. But yeah your point overall is absolutely valid and I totally get what you're saying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricky Jackson Posted November 29, 2020 Report Share Posted November 29, 2020 Yeah, WWE history has hardly been full of big stars working snug, realistic offense. Like, Bret Hart and who else before Bryan? Even Backlund was pretty over the top. Austin turning heel drove away fans. Triple H on top drove away fans. Whatever the fuck mess they've been putting out for the last 5-6 years has drove away fans. Cena on top didnt drive away fans. I think fans actually liked going to shows and booing him, even though they bitched about how much they hated him and that someone else should be on top all the time. I guess he was a heel after all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NintendoLogic Posted November 29, 2020 Report Share Posted November 29, 2020 24 minutes ago, KawadaSmile said: That's kinda crazy to me. Cena was the last of the major draws US pro-wrestling had. Ratings started to plummet around the same time he began to appear less, and the notion that people were driven away by his offense is kinda weird. That's precisely the problem. The little Jimmies he brought in didn't stick around and the fans he drove away never came back. Quote Look at the biggest players WWE has had: Hogan, Austin, Rock. Can we really say that their offense is any less fake-looking than Cena's? In contrast, Jeff Jarrett probably had one of the sweetest punches of the last 20 years and people didn't really tune in to watch him, be it in WCW or TNA. I don't really think there were too many holes in Austin's work you could point to. But to your overall point, that's why I mentioned personality. You can look past holes in a wrestler's work if he's cool enough. There was nothing cool about Cena. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricky Jackson Posted November 29, 2020 Report Share Posted November 29, 2020 I forgot about Benoit. He's truly been erased from history Plus, come on, "Cena sux" talking points in 2020? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KawadaSmile Posted November 29, 2020 Author Report Share Posted November 29, 2020 But can we safely say that Cena drove away more people than he attracted? Like, I think you can make some arguments that the overall booking around most of the late 2000s and early 2010s were a decisive factor to long term losses in audience, and that would be fair, but I don't think that falls solely on Cena's shoulders, and even less so that his offense, of all things, would be a critical issue for people. But hey, what makes Cena uncooler than Hogan? The cocaine? Like, 1993 Hogan was lame as fuck, even Cena's kiddy humor was more bearable. It's a tough comparison. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted November 29, 2020 Report Share Posted November 29, 2020 It's the Unbeatable Superhero gimmick. It absolutely worked for Hogan in the 80s, but after a while it ran its course and wasn't "cool" anymore. The backlash against Cena largely went away when he wasn't being pushed as the Unbeatable Superhero anymore, his kiddy humor and questionable offense wasn't as objectionable when he wasn't being pushed as the guy who always wins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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