MoS Posted December 12, 2020 Author Report Share Posted December 12, 2020 11 minutes ago, Ricky Jackson said: Where does it say he thinks it doesn't happen in WWE? He certainly didn't shit all over similar spots - and unrealistic angles - during the attitude era and during his WWF/WWE stint in general. He would at least try to put it over instead of acting as if he was above it and publicly burying it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.S. Posted December 12, 2020 Report Share Posted December 12, 2020 1 hour ago, MoS said: He certainly didn't shit all over similar spots - and unrealistic angles - during the attitude era and during his WWF/WWE stint in general. He would at least try to put it over instead of acting as if he was above it and publicly burying it. Exactly. He kissed ass in WWE like no tomorrow, but in AEW, he's an unprofessional tool. I was a J.R. defender at first, because he added instant credibility and a professional voice and presence to AEW. But comments like this - displaying his complete and utter contempt for the product - demonstrate that he's actively doing more harm than good now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocco Posted December 12, 2020 Report Share Posted December 12, 2020 Someone saying something is shit is actually a good thing. Not that anyone will listen but still. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricR Posted December 12, 2020 Report Share Posted December 12, 2020 On 12/10/2020 at 6:58 AM, Log said: I was just reading @EricR’s workfare report over at Seguna Caida and was reminded of something I was thinking about last night: what the fuck was up with Butcher and Blade? They both looked like they were working their first match out there. They both (Butcher especially) seemed to be totally lost for pretty much the whole match. Kingston seemed to be trying to direct traffic, but they would just freeze. It was weird. Yeah you don't typically see that level of miscommunication in a match. Butcher, Blade, and Fenix all looked like they were somewhere else entirely. Kingston clearly motioned AND yelled got B&B to get in the ring at least three times and they both just stood frozen, about to enter the ring. Fenix has looked completely wrong since that really bad match against his brother where they had to stall after he took a backdrop bump on his head. Kingston is the best in the world, but only so much you can do when that many guys in a match are that far gone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricky Jackson Posted December 12, 2020 Report Share Posted December 12, 2020 Yeah, I mean I haven't watched AEW since pre-covid so I have no idea how bad Ross has been, but when it comes to the dive into a crowd of wrestlers waiting to catch spot, he isnt wrong. That needed to go away yesterday, it's been so overused Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.S. Posted December 12, 2020 Report Share Posted December 12, 2020 It's a shit spot, and Ross isn't wrong, but outwardly burying your company and showing utter contempt for it is such a dick move. If he did this in the WWE, instead of bending over backward to kiss ass, it would be more understandable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirEdger Posted December 12, 2020 Report Share Posted December 12, 2020 It would be something to take seriously if JR wasn't a shell of himself and outright embarrassing himself and his employer every week by looking like he doesn't want to be there. I don't know why they haven't decided yet to stick strictly with Tony Schiavone and Excalibur - you know, the guys who actually make you feel like they're having fun and want to help the promotion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoS Posted December 12, 2020 Author Report Share Posted December 12, 2020 1 hour ago, Ricky Jackson said: Yeah, I mean I haven't watched AEW since pre-covid so I have no idea how bad Ross has been, but when it comes to the dive into a crowd of wrestlers waiting to catch spot, he isnt wrong. That needed to go away yesterday, it's been so overused You know who else isn't wrong? All of us who criticise AEW booking every single week. Doesn't mean that commentators start shitting on the AEW product during the actual show. JR is not being paid to be very sensible and logical. He is paid for the exact shit he did during the Austin era, during the Ruthless Agrression, hell, during the JCP era when literally no booking decision made sense. Saying he "isn't wrong" is really missing the point in my opinion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jiraffejustin Posted December 12, 2020 Report Share Posted December 12, 2020 JR is speaking truth to power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted December 12, 2020 Report Share Posted December 12, 2020 Wow, this thread. You're a bunch of salty MFs ! Hey, today I pretty much celebrate my 30th anniversary of becoming a real pro-wrestling fan. Yeah, probably taped my first show 30 years ago, two weeks before Xmas holidays, so that must have been it. Brutus Beefcake, Bushwhackers and Rick Rude squash matches and the likes. 30 years later I get to see Tony pop Sting with his classic call, the most obscure call-back even with Se7en (21 years in the making) and Don Callis & Omega appearing on two companies shows the same week. And a bunch of actual good matches. Needless to say, it's been quite a ride. I wonder what the fuck did I do with my life too, in the meantime. Hey, nothing could follow last week's show anyway. And now I realize I watched way more pro-wrestling not only than I should have, but also than I most probably will in the future, damn that's kind of a depressing though ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NintendoLogic Posted December 12, 2020 Report Share Posted December 12, 2020 I don't know where this idea that JR bent over backwards to put over everything in WWE came from. He subtly buried matches and segments he thought sucked all the time. He even had phrases like "bowling shoe" to signify that things were especially bad. It was that willingness to respect the intelligence of the viewer that gave him the credibility to put over the stuff that really mattered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirEdger Posted December 12, 2020 Report Share Posted December 12, 2020 6 hours ago, El-P said: Wow, this thread. You're a bunch of salty MFs ! Hey, today I pretty much celebrate my 30th anniversary of becoming a real pro-wrestling fan. Yeah, probably taped my first show 30 years ago, two weeks before Xmas holidays, so that must have been it. Brutus Beefcake, Bushwhackers and Rick Rude squash matches and the likes. 30 years later I get to see Tony pop Sting with his classic call, the most obscure call-back even with Se7en (21 years in the making) and Don Callis & Omega appearing on two companies shows the same week. And a bunch of actual good matches. Needless to say, it's been quite a ride. I wonder what the fuck did I do with my life too, in the meantime. Hey, nothing could follow last week's show anyway. And now I realize I watched way more pro-wrestling not only than I should have, but also than I most probably will in the future, damn that's kind of a depressing though ! Dude, I've been doing this for more than 35 years. If you feel old, imagine how I do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.S. Posted December 12, 2020 Report Share Posted December 12, 2020 9 hours ago, NintendoLogic said: I don't know where this idea that JR bent over backwards to put over everything in WWE came from. He subtly buried matches and segments he thought sucked all the time. He even had phrases like "bowling shoe" to signify that things were especially bad. It was that willingness to respect the intelligence of the viewer that gave him the credibility to put over the stuff that really mattered. His Ross Report articles (I can't remember if they were on WWE.com, his own website, or both) was such blatant bending over backward to kiss Vince's behind. Anyway, I have no idea how credible wrestlingnews.co is, but FWIW: Quote One wrestler gave us the following statement on Ross’ comments: “Look I know there is a lot that JR can teach us but burying us on the show or on his podcast is only going to make some of us ignore what he says. I grew up watching JR and he is the best and we love it that he calls our matches but maybe find a different way to criticize the wrestlers in the ring. Everyone is doing what they have been taught. I agree that sometimes things need to be slowed down but that won’t happen when the guy who is supposed to help put us over is going out there and publicly burying us.” https://wrestlingnews.co/aew-news/aew-wrestlers-not-thrilled-with-jim-ross-publicly-burying-their-in-ring-work/ 16 hours ago, MoS said: Saying he "isn't wrong" is really missing the point in my opinion Most PWO posters missing the forest from the trees is nothing new. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirEdger Posted December 12, 2020 Report Share Posted December 12, 2020 At this stage, if it were possible, I'd prefer to see Mauro Ranallo working with Tony Schiavone and Excalibur. I honestly don't know what JR is bringing at this stage. I've said it ad nauseam but I really feel like he doesn't want to be there. Just keep JR to build vignettes for high profile matches. As a fan, make me care that JR believes a match is important enough that he wants me, as a viewer, to feel the same about it. Because right now, I don't feel it at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted December 12, 2020 Report Share Posted December 12, 2020 He's still really good at doing those sit down interviews, there's still a lot he can bring in that capacity. He seems disinterested to the point of being sarcastic on commentary most nights. I suppose there might be a feeling moving him off the announce desk might end up being a "Gordon Solie in 1989 WCW" situation where you have a legend past their prime and it gets sad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.S. Posted December 12, 2020 Report Share Posted December 12, 2020 40 minutes ago, SirEdger said: At this stage, if it were possible, I'd prefer to see Mauro Ranallo working with Tony Schiavone and Excalibur. Are you being sarcastic or do you genuinely recognize the sheer greatness of the Mighty Ranallo? Best play-by-play man of his generation! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweet Brown Koko Posted December 13, 2020 Report Share Posted December 13, 2020 I don’t see the issue with what Ross said or him saying it on the podcast. On the TV broadcast...maybe....depending on how it’s said. I think it’s BEYOND dumb having those spots and all the choreographed nonsense. The toss to the corner, leapfrog, kick, catch foot, spin, miss clothesline, go into whatever else you do is tired. The wrestlers today are super athletic and I get that styles evolve but I also think the wrestlers could do more listening as well and quit trying to have Misawa/Kawada or Liger/Sasuke EVERY time they go out there. One or two of those spots per match would be more effective. Bottom line: I get the Ross criticism from the wrestlers on some level but it should be a two way street. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted December 13, 2020 Report Share Posted December 13, 2020 I think "JR is not wrong in his criticism" and "Maybe JR should be less of a dick about it and maybe discuss these things with the wrestlers directly instead of burying them on a podcast or TV" are two statements that can both be correct at the same time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffey Posted December 13, 2020 Report Share Posted December 13, 2020 1 hour ago, SirEdger said: At this stage, if it were possible, I'd prefer to see Mauro Ranallo working with Tony Schiavone and Excalibur. I honestly don't know what JR is bringing at this stage. Why? Why do they have to have a third person, regardless of who it is? Just take Jim off commentary & run the two-person booth. I don't know why wrestling switched to three people anyway. That shit sucked in WCW. It sucks in WWE & it sucks in AEW. Jim Ross is an invaluable resource but he doesn't need to do commentary anymore. Put him in a backstage role. He's been involved in pro-wrestling since the early 70's in damn near every capacity - he's a great person to have around, especially for a new, rising wrestling company. He's seen & done it all. He's been through it all. The low, bottom rungs to the tippy-top peaks of the industry. Getting rid of him entirely would be a mistake. But I think his commentary days are behind him & I don't think that's an AEW thing. His last years calling in WWE were bad & his stint in New Japan was awful. Jim Ross's criticism may have been factually correct but it didn't need to be said publicly in the way that it was. All that does is bury your talent & make Ross come off as a bitter, grumpy old man again. Neither of which is helping anyone. It's similar to a lot of the shit that Jim Cornette says: like you might agree with the idea of his comment but more often than not, he expresses it in such a negative, hyperbolic way that it completely kills the message. Less is more, we know that. Moves should have a point, we know that. Psychology is important, we know that. The shit you do shouldn't look so choreographed & business-exposing, we know that. We know all this shit. But they still do it anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted December 13, 2020 Report Share Posted December 13, 2020 Honestly, at this point, if I were a worker and Ross would shit on me like that, I'd go "Ok boomer" on his ass. And yeah, we don't need a three men booth anyway. Excalibur & Schiavone are just fine. Would give the broadcast more air. As far as "looking choreographed," well, that's what some of the same guys were telling about Eddie & Benoit & Rey & Juvy back in WCW. And what some guys from the 60's said about the Midnight Express and Ric Flair and Steamboat. Get with the program already. Say hello to 2020. And yes, the problem here is that Ross is PAID to get the product over. Not publicly shit on it. If he can't do his job, bye bye. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirEdger Posted December 13, 2020 Report Share Posted December 13, 2020 1 hour ago, C.S. said: Are you being sarcastic or do you genuinely recognize the sheer greatness of the Mighty Ranallo? Best play-by-play man of his generation! Oh, that's genuine, buddy. I love Mauro and what he brings to the table. I just want someone that doesn't phone it in on commentary. Quote Why? Why do they have to have a third person, regardless of who it is? Just take Jim off commentary & run the two-person booth. I don't know why wrestling switched to three people anyway. That shit sucked in WCW. It sucks in WWE & it sucks in AEW. Honestly, I'd be fine with just Tony Schiavone & Excalibur on commentary. I was going on if AEW was insisting on having a 3-men booth. At worst, bring Mauro for the PPVs only if it comes down to it. Just keep JR for vignettes and special interviews. This is where he can bring value more than he does on weekly broadcasts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NintendoLogic Posted December 13, 2020 Report Share Posted December 13, 2020 Wrestling can be choreographed and still look good. I have never seen a wrestlers huddled up waiting for someone to dive onto them spot that didn't look like absolute dogshit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blehschmidt Posted December 13, 2020 Report Share Posted December 13, 2020 In 1989 on the Power Hour, they gave Gordon Solie a 5 minute segment where he ran down the Top 10, discussed the top feuds, and then gave an opinion about the feud to close the segment. It was a nice way to keep him in the loop since he had done so much for them, but it kept him off commentary. I think this would be a perfect use for Ross at this point. As for the announce team, Excalibur and Schiavone are fine. If they must have 3 people, Taz is right there. They don't need screaming Mauro for fucks sake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricky Jackson Posted December 13, 2020 Report Share Posted December 13, 2020 3 hours ago, C.S. said: Most PWO posters missing the forest from the trees is nothing new. Was trashing the board out of the blue really necessary? Stick to JR and any of your other pet hates Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted December 13, 2020 Report Share Posted December 13, 2020 So it looks like Brian Cage was playing the Thanos-themed Purple Terror character in the Marvel themed match at Triplemania tonight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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