Unboxing the 80s

[Matt D]

12 minutes ago, PeteF3 said:

This thread might be the first outright defense of Baron Scicluna as a worker. That's not me being snide, just an observation. There is a squash or two on All-Star Wrestling where he surprisingly does some solid wrestling, instead of going straight to the foreign object shtick.

We all like the Battle of Atlantic City, right?

[Loss]

There is also a late 60s JWA match where he is pretty great, although I realize that's an exception to how he normally works.

I like Scicluna going for the heat. He has little credibility, so he cheats.

[Loss]

This is a good thread to see if anyone in the world knows the story of announcers calling Ted DiBiase "Ted DiBi-OSS". I asked Dave about it and he had no explanation. Fair or not, I hold a grudge against Larry Matysik over this.

[Migs]

7 hours ago, Loss said:

 

I feel like Mance Warner channels that every time he lets a full minute of Simple Man play before he actually enters.

[Loss]

Some interesting talk on the Stick To Wrestling podcast recently about Ric Flair prior to the formation of the Four Horsemen that really rings true going through footage. He was not really a heel before that. He wasn't quite a babyface either, but in JCP, he was probably closer to that. The brilliance of how Flair was pushed in the early 80s was that he was presented as being above the face-heel fray. That meant he feuded with people on both sides, and emphasized the tendencies in his personality that would get the feud over at that moment. The most important thing was that he was being himself and there was an internal consistency to it. That's also how he was introduced on TBS in 1981. He was above the fray. When it made sense, they would emphasize the more heelish traits in his personality. One of my all-time favorite things in a wrestling vignette was the Solie line when they showed him on his private jet: "Despite the current recession, Ric Flair *always* travels first class." It was meant to anger people, but without him having to do some caricatured promo he would become more famous for later, about living in the biggest house in the best neighborhood.

Apparently, some longtime fans weren't thrilled about Flair going full-on heel because it felt out of character, and things like making out with the mannequin and doing more overtly heelish things were frustrating to them because Flair's persona was that he was the smooth, well-dressed class act who was full of himself but also very easy to like. The Horsemen did big business, but it's very easy to see an argument that Flair lost something when he became a heel just like the other heels and abandoned the subtlety in his act.

[Loss]

Click through for more.

 

[Flyin' Brian]

1 hour ago, Loss said:

Click through for more.

 

That’s Oprah Winfrey isn’t it? 

[Loss]

It is, indeed, when she was just a local Chicago figure.

[Loss]

A thread about Buddy Landell. Click through for the rest.

 

[PeteF3]

This is a reminder that a Landel vs. Flair main event drew the largest crowd and gate in the history of Raleigh's Dorton Arena, at least to that point.

[MoS]

9 hours ago, Loss said:

Some interesting talk on the Stick To Wrestling podcast recently about Ric Flair prior to the formation of the Four Horsemen that really rings true going through footage. He was not really a heel before that. He wasn't quite a babyface either, but in JCP, he was probably closer to that. The brilliance of how Flair was pushed in the early 80s was that he was presented as being above the face-heel fray. That meant he feuded with people on both sides, and emphasized the tendencies in his personality that would get the feud over at that moment. The most important thing was that he was being himself and there was an internal consistency to it. That's also how he was introduced on TBS in 1981. He was above the fray. When it made sense, they would emphasize the more heelish traits in his personality. One of my all-time favorite things in a wrestling vignette was the Solie line when they showed him on his private jet: "Despite the current recession, Ric Flair *always* travels first class." It was meant to anger people, but without him having to do some caricatured promo he would become more famous for later, about living in the biggest house in the best neighborhood.

Apparently, some longtime fans weren't thrilled about Flair going full-on heel because it felt out of character, and things like making out with the mannequin and doing more overtly heelish things were frustrating to them because Flair's persona was that he was the smooth, well-dressed class act who was full of himself but also very easy to like. The Horsemen did big business, but it's very easy to see an argument that Flair lost something when he became a heel just like the other heels and abandoned the subtlety in his act.

Really interesting. Do you think his change in character also was reflected in how he worked matches?

[Loss]

I'm not sure, but that's a good question. I think he created a template as more musclemen entered wrestling who weren't as physically talented or seasoned as a lot of talent he was used to working with on top. He developed a template to accommodate that. He did a lot more *wrestling* in the ring in 1982-1983, and every two years or so after that, you'd see him slowly remove things from his repertoire unless he was truly in with someone he believed was a top-level opponent like a Windham or a Steamboat. If he wasn't overly familiar with the opponent or if it was a big stiff he was working around, he was executing the template. I've heard wrestlers talk about how much they're being moved from place to place working with Flair during that time, almost like they're not doing much because he's constantly just maneuvering them from position to position and then just wrestling around them. The plus to that approach was that it ensured a good match most of the time. The minus was that even when the match wasn't "bad", there were one-off capable opponents he probably could have had better matches with.

[Matt D]

Did heel Flair draw more than tweener Flair?

[Loss]

No. In fact, 1981-1985 Flair was the biggest drawing NWA champion ever, and 1986-1989 was the worst drawing NWA champion ever. Flair still headlined some big and successful shows in 1986 and 1987, but not as many. I wouldn't put that all on Flair. Wrestling changed a ton during that time. But I think it would also be wrong to dismiss it entirely -- one group had a champion who beat everyone he wrestled and the other couldn't seem to win a match.

[MoS]

My fantasy booking for JCP has always been to turn Flair face in 1986 and let him be the man for a few years. He could always turn back heel when it was time to put over the next generation of muscleheads. I know he didn't like working face, but that's why you have bookers looking at the larger picture. 

[NintendoLogic]

9 hours ago, Loss said:

No. In fact, 1981-1985 Flair was the biggest drawing NWA champion ever, and 1986-1989 was the worst drawing NWA champion ever. Flair still headlined some big and successful shows in 1986 and 1987, but not as many. I wouldn't put that all on Flair. Wrestling changed a ton during that time. But I think it would also be wrong to dismiss it entirely -- one group had a champion who beat everyone he wrestled and the other couldn't seem to win a match.

To be clear, Dave was referring specifically to St. Louis when he said this. Here's something he wrote in 2014 about Dusty finishes:

Quote

as long as it's rare.

Sam Muchnick did Dusty finishes before anyone ever heard of Dusty.

I think he limited them to once every 10-12 years. And the rematches always did huge business.

Then Dusty started booking St. Louis and Flair went from the second best drawing champion in the city's history, to the worst in almost the snap of the fingers.

Also, I was under the impression Flair was a full-fledged babyface in the Carolinas in the early 80s up until he turned on Dusty in 1985.

[Loss]

If you look at the build to Starrcade '84 or various angles he did with Piper in 1982, he was a heel at times. But it was more heelish tendencies than a full blown heel.

Dave has made the comment in larger terms about Flair in other cases. It wasn't just St. Louis.

[El-P]

Political analogy : neither heel nor babyface / tweener (apolitical) = heel 

[Mad Dog]

On 2/13/2021 at 4:19 PM, Loss said:

Other thoughts:

- Almost finished with 1981 stuff, and I'm pretty sure Rick Martel and Tony Garea are teaming in perpetuity in Allentown, PA.

- Steve O is likely the most forgettable semi-pushed wrestler in history.

- Now wondering if late '81 Georgia Championship Wrestling has the most great talkers assembled in one place. Flair, Dusty, Piper, Hayes, Idol, Bob Armstrong, Ole, Rich, Jonathan Boyd, Mr. Wrestling II ...

- I don't want to jump to huge conclusions just based on the limited stuff we have, but Wrestling at the Chase and whatever other St. Louis footage we have has often been so underwhelming.

- Jimmy Garvin is one of the best examples ever of a guy hitting paydirt with a new gimmick. He'd been languishing in opening matches for years and years. Suddenly, he's in demand everywhere and hitting magazine covers.

There's actually a fun Steve O match from 1984 All Japan TV where he challenges Jumbo for the International Title. That's the only thing I've ever really retained memory wise of him.

Edit: 100% agree on St. Louis. That might be my fault for reading Wrestling At the Chase, the KayFabMemories stuff and other books and thinking it was going to be better than it was. 

[Busterira]

Great thread Loss. Lots of great memories. I don’t watch much wrestling anymore but when I do it’s usually something from the 80s. A couple of observations:

Buzz Sawyer was a wrestling machine, he was amazing when he was at his peak. My first exposure to wrestling was seeing him on TBS in GCW. He is probably the biggest what if of the decade. He just had so many demons and plus he was brutal to the squash guys. There is one match in particular from Georgia in 1983 where he literally almost killed a guy. I am pretty sure it was Randy Mulkey but Gordon Solie said Randy Mulley. I can’t find it in YouTube unfortunately. 
 

Tully Blanchard was one of the best heels of the decade. He was amazing in Mid-Atlantic-Crockett. The fans hated him. You could hear it anytime he wrestled. They wanted to kill him.

You are so right about the ring entrances with the music. They added so much to the matches. Especially in World Class. It was a huge part of why the Freebirds were so great. It gave them an aura. When watching on the network it’s just not the same. I can remember to this day when Rude and Manny Fernandez came out to We Will Rock You as a brand new team in Crockett. It was just perfect for them. They were a great short lived team. 
 

That Terry Funk truck video is hilarious. I can’t stop laughing. That opening with him driving the truck with that music is all time great. What was the source? Is that Ken Resnick at the very beginning? So is it Pro Wrestling USA? 
 

What you really see is the lost art of the promos. They were such a huge part of what we grew up with and weren’t scripted. I miss listening to Jim Cornette during a Midnight Express squash match. 

 

 

[AA484]

Good to see you "back," Loss.  I always enjoy reading your thoughts.  Do you plan to share the "results" of your unboxing?  Not looking for yearbooks or anything like that, but maybe something along the line of essential matches, angles, promos, etc. for a particular year?  I think there is enough stuff available out there that we could piece together our own watch lists from that.  I'm always looking to deep dive with the 80s.

[Loss]

On 2/16/2021 at 7:45 AM, Busterira said:

Great thread Loss. Lots of great memories. I don’t watch much wrestling anymore but when I do it’s usually something from the 80s. A couple of observations:

Buzz Sawyer was a wrestling machine, he was amazing when he was at his peak. My first exposure to wrestling was seeing him on TBS in GCW. He is probably the biggest what if of the decade. He just had so many demons and plus he was brutal to the squash guys. There is one match in particular from Georgia in 1983 where he literally almost killed a guy. I am pretty sure it was Randy Mulkey but Gordon Solie said Randy Mulley. I can’t find it in YouTube unfortunately. 

Tully Blanchard was one of the best heels of the decade. He was amazing in Mid-Atlantic-Crockett. The fans hated him. You could hear it anytime he wrestled. They wanted to kill him.

You are so right about the ring entrances with the music. They added so much to the matches. Especially in World Class. It was a huge part of why the Freebirds were so great. It gave them an aura. When watching on the network it’s just not the same. I can remember to this day when Rude and Manny Fernandez came out to We Will Rock You as a brand new team in Crockett. It was just perfect for them. They were a great short lived team. 

That Terry Funk truck video is hilarious. I can’t stop laughing. That opening with him driving the truck with that music is all time great. What was the source? Is that Ken Resnick at the very beginning? So is it Pro Wrestling USA? 

What you really see is the lost art of the promos. They were such a huge part of what we grew up with and weren’t scripted. I miss listening to Jim Cornette during a Midnight Express squash match. 

As I go through and try to curate everything, I've made it a point to keep every Buzz Sawyer squash. I think he's still really good after 1983 or so, but to me, that's the end of every single thing he does being must-see. He still has a lot of must-see stuff after that, of course, but I'd call 1981-1983 amazing, 1984-1986 great, and after that good.

The Funk video is PWUSA, yes. I love the car speeding into the Lone Ranger theme so much I can't tell you!

[WingedEagle]

This thread is the best thing to happen here in some time.  I've caught bits and pieces of this on Twitter but its tough to stay on top of it there.  Great to have everything organized so cohesively here.

[Loss]

 

[Busterira]